Well, ...can't speak for the dude, Richard... I think there are many that you just drain a quart, add the stuff, then see if it frees up. You don't have to drain the oil right away... it's not like adding ATF for a HG Flush out, etc. It's just to try and 'free' something that's stuck... USUALLY it's done in older engines... BUT, there are MANY conditioners out there now, ...heck even Zinc is still available for break ins(which I think you've LONG since done already)... And You can just run SOME of them til the next oil change.

I'm NOT going to recommend one, Richard... I just come across too many conflicting articles regarding 'ADDITIVES' in general... But especially the "slick 50's" of the world, etc., ya know? And those? 50$, some of them. BTW, Seafoam? Hmmmm.... Not really meant to be left in there long(in the crank case I'm saying).... I have enough to do a 'crankcase cycle' as per the Seafoam Instructions... But it's not really for conditioning... rather, it's for loosening carbon deposits, etc.. And EVEN SEAFOAM is controversial!!!! HAHAHA... JUST CAN'T WIN, RIGHT?

But I'm sure there will be plenty of input on that. I've used LUCAS and STABIL products.... Can't speak as to any others. Neither of them CAUSED any problems... Not sure if they helped, either..but never know. I have a quart of Lucas Oil Additive if you wanna use it until you change oil.. then just buy me one back? Up to you. I have to do my oil soon, VERY SOON... maybe 200 miles.

I don't see any harm in tossing in the recommended amount of seafoam when it's time, just before your oil change? Pulling it into the Intake? I guess you could do that as well... Just don't like that even 5% chance of Hydro lock... Makes me nervous! hahaha.

 

Don't use any engine additive. I seen a 22re valve cover gunked up cuz he would add slick50 after each oil change we did for him.
Seafoam I like. I use it on all my cars but i don't do it regularly. Usually do it if I don't know the condition of tr engine so like most when we get a new used vehicle. We do the usually complete tune up and flushes. That's when I do it. Usually after that I don't use any Seafoam or additive because from there on out I know what maintanace I done so additives and what not is not needed to reccomended.

Find out what the product is. I'm curious to hear what he is suggesting

 

Not POSITIVE... but if he actually said, "PURR".. or "MOTOR PURR"... it's a product.....

 

I just don't see this as 'advantageous' in a motor with what... 5000 miles?

I really think that's just another Seafoam type product.... And, well.... maybe more stuff in there too? Haven't ever researched it.. Just knew I'd heard of it. My machinist is all I can go by.. I'm pretty sure he'd tell me, "WHAT? Dude, .... gotta tear it down again.... I wont charge ya for labor... know it's a PITA... something's not right, plain and simple"... But see, that's the thing, Richard.. I really would have to listen to your motor again in person, hoping it will do whatever you're speaking of... THEN I can say whether it's doing what I HEARD or something else entirely. Maybe he's hoping it will free up a lifter, a "Worth a shot", in other words, type of thing, HOPING it might free something up?

Seems odd that it comes and goes, Toyo, no? I mean.... it is a lifter, not a rocker... So it might just be possible.. You'd know more than I would on that end, for sure. Also.... maybe you've done a few 'shims' in the shop?

 

I actually do not know a whole lot about the 3VZE motors, the wife had one and I hated working on it. I know about the shims from seeing it when I installed a used motor into a pickup at work once when I took the valve covers off to check everything. I have experience with the bucket shims from working on Subaru's, they have them on the early 2.5 motors.

 

Ahhhh, ... Ok, gotcha

I'm sure I can find a write up on it... Just curious... But I mean... This kinda sucks... IF IT IS a bad lifter/stuck lifter... What's the likely-hood that it'll unstick with Motor Purr? Secondly... if it's NOT stuck...rather, it's FAR too much lash... Could that be the 'thumpy-mac-dull' sound I heard? Or would it be far more likely to be 'tick-tick'y?

 

comes and goes, could be a rod knock. but something like this. its best to hear it in person.

 

Yeah, I've heard what I'M talking about, in person, at least 5 times... Never noticed it NOT there, but it did seem louder or lesser at times than others... Would come and go(WIMean is, ... it would come and go within seconds... Never just disappear)... And was NOTHING like the 22RE Ticks.... More like when you tap one finger on a wooden desk top. Anyway, YES, you're right... and taking the stethoscope to it in person will be a lot more telling... Just never had it with me. And when he was over here... we just got to work and knocked stuff out.

We'll see... And, like I said, Richard... I REALLY HOPE it's nothing. But let's try to find out, either way, right?

 

Well if it is only when at cold start up, it could be just piston slap, the 22RE's have this problem and it really doesn't do much other than get annoying.

If it is a lower end problem, the best way to find which cylinder is to pull spark plug wires with it running, if you pull the plug and it goes away, that means the problem is in that cylinder and could most likely be a rod knock. If the noise changes when the cylinder is killed, it is something else, I have heard that a bad wrist pin will give a double tap.

If the noise seems slower then engine speed usually half the speed, it will be a top end problem and will not change with killing cylinders, for example if your exhaust valve is making noise, that exhaust valve will only open once within the 4 strokes or 2 cycles of the piston.
(the intake valve opens for air and fuel as the piston travels to the bottom of its stroke, both valves are closed as the piston travels to the top of its stroke to compress the fuel and air, the spark plug will ignite when the piston reaches TDC and creates an explosion which sends the piston to the bottom of its stroke, the exhaust valve opens and the piston returns to the top pushing the exhaust out and will at that time make noise.)
I have had luck with putting sea foam into the crank case with engines that have hydraulic lash adjusters when the oil supply is plugged but the 3VZE does not have this.

 

AHHHHHHHH! Chrome keeps signing me out(used to firefox, lol)... So I lost my post...

Basically said; I getcha, James...(regarding function/timing of components, etc.)... But Richard could get out and pull the wires, one at a time, seeing what he notices. It's in the Haynes even, Richard... in the troubleshooting 'symptoms' and 'noises' and such, I believe in the beginning of the book. Might be in 'engine assembly' section.. Can't remember.

To clarify.... I did hear a tick.. but I don't think it's what is concerning him now. I mentioned the dull thud(which is around 3-4 Beats per second/Engine timing/Fully warm/ Which is why I thought rod knock and such in the first place).... Mentioned it a few times, but I just don't think he heard what I was mentioning? Once I hear what he says is "THAT"... then I can tell you if it's what had me curious/maybe concerned, all along.

 

Alright guys i made a video for you guys with the engine noise. I had just turned the truck on and it was making the 2nd noise other then that ticking i get. Im not sure if i am listening in the right area but i hear the noise more toward the bottom under the truck. unfortunately the video didnt pick up the noise. it is usually really light. but anyway the rest of the video i show you guys the sound of the motor as i unplug each spark plug one at a time. I did not hear a single change in motor sound or ticking. I'll let you guys tell me what you think. maybe you will catch something i didnt.
I just realized its pretty hard to understand what im saying in the whole video due to the motor sound. I'll try not to talk so low in future videos.

 

For reference. This guy had the same exact problem i have. Describes it almost exactly to what mine has been sounding like.

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-rattle-76963/

 

Actually a pretty good video with sound, etc.... Especially cuz the fan is not in play as it's warming up from a certain point. However, ...and I don't want you to think I'm being rude..... plus, I might just be speaking for myself,.... But if you do another video... Just don't speak at all. Geesh, that didn't come out right, ahhaha.... WIMean is,.... it's distracting trying to listen for things.....but more important, the mic on the camera/phone, whatever it is... it's got some noise canceling going on, JUST A LILLLLLL bit... enough to make a difference, ya know? Like a phone does, really....

Anywayyyyyyyy, good on ya, getting out there and checking out some stuff...

I personally, CLEARLY hear, at a few spots in the video, ..I hear the ticking..... I'd have to hear it in person, but it doesn't 'SCARE ME', if you KWIMean? .... But bothering? Especially having just paid all that money? YES, ... and not forgetting to mention... IT COULD be something that needs to be addressed...... sooner than later.. Just can't know just yet.

NOW; I don't mean to be Debbie Downer.... but I STILL heard that dull knocking aside from the ticking... It was hard to tell if one would fade a lil and I could hear the other... but I heard it, while you were in the area of "Between reinstalling the 5th plug and up until you reinstalled the 6th/last..." ... But you were talking, so it was hard at a couple spots to tell if your voice is canceling out the background noise on the phone?... Or if it's just coming and going.

THEN, when you went back over to the driver door and were getting in and out.... 3:43-3:45 ....in between where you're speaking, I can hear what sounds much more to me like what I remembered..... Seems to be 'rolling' in and out.../some what of a 'coming and going' at times(ALWAYS there... but more prevalent at times, IOW). Again, I can't tell if it's your voice doing that or not... And I'M NOT TELLING YOU TO SHUT UP! hahaha... I'm just asking... can you do another with NO SPEAKING, and just edit in some text.... like "listen closely from 'a' to 'b' time here", if anything. Plus, as you noticed I'm sure...... The Mic sometimes doesn't pick up WHAT YOU HEAR, at all... and then other times picks up what you don't, right? I've noticed that, doing videos with my point and shoot(which might be what you used, the Nikon?).... Anyway, Just get as many angles you can, even from away a lil bit at spots... Maybe moving every 10 seconds for 3 minutes... That's 18 spots where you can pause for 10 seconds.... Plus, Hold the camera by your face as you record/listen.... Cuz, as we all know...moving even 6 inches from one spot to another, things resonate TOTALLY different, right? Also.... Please do the next one when it's FULLY warmed up, like after getting to work, or getting home today? The fan will kick in and out.. BUt that's ok..... I seemed to be able to hear it more clearly as the RPM's crawled down.

Again, I explained what I can hear... At some points, DEFINITELY sounds like valve tick.... Others? Just seems far more dull/low toned to me... BUT, that could be 2 different things or just that it's a Lifter....Not sure what a sticky lifter/needing a shim(?) etc, would sound like.

Other than that, sounds pretty nice and throaty, man! Love her ''hum'' And just to add... I don't seem to notice any noticeable 'MISS' or stumbling, Richard.. Never have... It seems to run smooth... AS IT SHOULD, right?

 

Damn mark, any more harsh...? jk

BTW I've read all over yotatech that the 3.0's are known for this infamous ticking noise. Even my girls uncles at that auto parts store told me that they've heard 30+ 3vze's with the same ticking i always had including theirs on their 2nd gen 4runner. Not saying anything bad about your buddy's truck Mark just saying that so many people have reported a "normal" ticking noise I'm many 3.0's on this site and in person. But its like I said in the previous posts its definitely not the ordinary ticking noise its always had.

As far as the video goes I will go ahead and rerecord another video today and just delete the old one. Maybe this will help some. I think maybe I should swing by your place Friday or saturday so we can check ot out again. Only thing is with hat you won't be able to hear the sound it gets after a fresh start. But at least you'll be able to inspect it in person.

 

Hahahaaha... NOT EVEN meaning to be harsh... just think it would be helpful. You know, just explain on here what to listen for and when(according to what you hear)... and then let the audio guide the "tick-tick-tick-agnosis-ears" hehehe. I'm sure others with 3.0's will be more helpful, as you are very much right.... I've read the same, "Why does this thing 'tick' so much?".... 3VZEeeeeeeeeeeklickity... lol. Actually, the 22re's VERY commonly have a lil Sewing machine sound to them. Guys chase their tails for MONTHS, or over years even, til by the time they accept it's just the lil 4 bangers way....it's time to rebuild again! hahaha.

Anyway, sure, Sounds good on getting a listen in person..... again. If you've got the cold start 'tickies'.... Yeah, that's a tough one... It'd have to be off for hours for me to get a listen to what's concerning ya.... Honestly? At this point, if I can't verify with the stethoscope that there's rod knock or, otherwise, something in the top end, ASIDE from injectors, ticking away..... I'd just drive it. If something goes wrong or it gets worse and worse.... Then maybe he'll want to just dig in there and 'redo' whatever went wonky the first time. I'm just telling you from experience... These 'noises' can drive you NUTSSSSSSSS! Mine ended up BEING multiple things were off... And you've heard it now that I and my machinist rebuilt it again... Pretty quiet, right? That's the funny thing... there are STILL LIL TICKS and such that often quirk my head up... and then I quickly say "SHUT UP" to my subconscious! hahaha.

I mean, we're at 6K or so, right? No oil consumption.... No smoking..... Average mileage for what they are...(Maybe a lil city mileage issue for me)..... I mean.... Unless you can get him to conclude that something is VERY off and needs to be addressed right off... You'd have to dig in there yourself, ya know? That would probably void his work in his eyes....

So sure, let's take a listen, whenever is clever.... And HOPEFULLY at least figure out what it likely is, right? Then you can decide from there. If I can't figure it out(or it doesn't want to manifest while I'm standing there, LIKE THEY SO OFTEN DO hahaha)... then maybe you could have a second opinion from my dude, Phil, the crazy machinist? He's on Del Amo and Western Ave. WAY north east torrance. Near the 405 and 110. (Just as a thought, ya know? He can usually walk up and 'Yep, it's the doohickie', lol... ya know?)

 

Was the motor bored out? Did you use correct matching piston to that what it was bored out to be. I think someone else said it. But maybe piston slap? Maybe it's just nothing and just drive it till it shows itself better

 

Hey guys..... ,

I will let Richard answer all the questions as to 'engine bore?', etc.... I'm just not sure. BUT, He asked me to try and word what I noticed.... And while I'm uncomfortable trying to diagnose solely with a stethoscope.... Well, I told him I would do my best to at least describe what I noticed........

So.... today, we met up while I was down at Pick-Your-Part/Wilmington-North yard.... I listened a bit in the yard, but he'd just started it after it'd sat for a couple hours... I just couldn't hear much aside from a lil ticking and the injector tick, which is pretty loud on these..........

We then grabbed a bite and headed to my pad to grab the stethoscope and just give it a good listen at every angle.... This time, after he'd driven it a bit and left it running while I ran inside.... I came back out and I CLEARLY heard what I heard right from the first time we met... WHAT SOUNDED like a knock.... (coming and going, pretty consistent timing... RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP............................................... ......................................RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP-RAP............................................... ................).... etc. I tried not to just focus on that alone, first... then went all over the engine with the stethoscope...

This is what I HEARD/NOTICED.... and I'm not EVEN trying to make a formal diagnosis, etc... ;

1.) With the stethoscope on the engine heads, ... I can't hear much... which isn't suprising


2.) Put it on the valve covers... mmmmm, pretty quiet, but above cylinder 1(front left), I could hear a lil rapping

3.) Went to the oil pan, not much except for certain spots.... But then touched to the drain bolt/and just in front of it, in that area where in oil.... could hear the rapping/knocking sound.

4.) Came back up top.... All the injectors seem to sound within acceptable differentiations of decibel level from each other. I really came to the conclusion that that is not a problem/that is not what's causing whatever tick is concerning Richard.

5.) Then.... I listened to the FPR.... normal THUMPITY-thump... steady, repetitious beat, no fluctuation or dropping off..... So it was not the fluctuating 'RAP/KNOCK' we were hearing. I asked him to be sure he hears that it's steady...IT'S DEFINITELY louder than my 22RE's FPR....I'm sure if I could isolate that sound in an audio track, I would think it's pretty loud... BUT, like I said, 'consistently repetitious'... and we could hear this other noise over it, coming and going... And by then, I could FEEL it in the body/engine

6.) THIS IS WHEN, suddenly, I thought, "Let's listen through the EGR.... It's not really cycling at idle..... So maybe we can hear some resonant sounds through it... it kinda has a path to the exhaust valves at least"....... THAT WAS, BY FAR, THE MOST CLEAR PATH to hearing this 'RAP/KNOCK.....THUMP', compared to anything/anywhere else I listened from.... Right about the large nut, .....Richard will tell you his thoughts... but IMHO, that was the "sweet spot", so to speak, on hearing this CLEARLY as crickets in the dead of night... (PS> Unplugged the vacuum to the EGR and plugged it off, no change.... Not that there would be at idle)

7.) EVEN FROM THE VALVE COVER, up there.... above that portion of the head(over hole #1).... I could hear it a lil more than on the driver side of the head/valve cover... Again, like "Rapping your knuckles, lightly, on a wooden desk".... BUT; From the valve cover... even from the EGR Pipe.... It just REALLY, REALLY sounds to me, on first instinct.... like bottom end noise that I'm just hearing THROUGH these other apparatuses/locations.

8.) I also noticed that when he starts the truck, ANY TIME, even then when hot,... as he lets off the key, there's quite a slap, just one, never more.. had him do it several times and didn't seem louder at the starter than when listening through the pan/toward the back.... BUT, can't say for sure that's not the starter-solenoid.(Richard said it's done that EVERY time he's starting it, ...and THEN, ...when he let's off the key.) And, well, like mentioned... maybe starter solenoid slapping back?....No clue... BUT, if piston slap is a viable candidate. He was fully warm though.

9.) Just for the heck of it, I'll mention another thing I noticed. Holding on to the grill, more than anywhere, for some reason... I felt a 'rolling'... Hard to word this... But it was like when a machine has bearings getting tired... or like a wash machine motor out of balance a lil? Steady repetition... but with a pause... JUST LIKE the Rap/Knock, causing this vibration through the whole rig.......... To be honest, it seemed to be THE SAME timing as the 'rap/knock'.....

PS> I just want to add one thing regarding 'engine bore'... I DID ask him, as he was leaving.. "did he bore this over? Match the pistons/rings to the bore, etc.?".. And he was just exhausted I think,... wasn't really clear on all the DETAILED semantics of what was done to the block.... But HE DID mention something about a piston being mangled or something... and that it needed 'machining'? I'm guessing maybe he meant the rod cap or something.... But then, the crank was only polished,nothing more, IIRC??? So, ...as I said, I'm just not sure... I'm only bringing it up in hopes that Richard will elaborate a bit more on that portion. Also, Richard said he's going to try to take it to his family friends, again, who'd turned him on to this Engine Builder... I think they can help in way of communicating what they feel, if anything, is going on.... Richard?)

 

Richard/Mark, something similar that caught my eye earlier up on the thread ...I think you said the mechanic told you the bearings were messed up and so you needed new bearings etc.... But then the crank was only polished and not ground down, seemed odd to me, since I would suspect the crank would have been a little damaged and ground down .010 and then bearings to match.

 

Exactly what I had asked... If the bearing was toast... how could the crank not be needing at least a mild grind?"... But he said he'll fill us in, Grego... So I'm sure we'll get an update soon ...... RIGHT RICHARD? Hhahahaha.... I feel like that guy at the party when everyone runs but you're holding the keg and the cops roll up and........ "DOHHHHHHHh" hahaha. JK, .... just waiting for you to update all we talked about, Richard... and what you told me today, etc., etc. Wishin you the best, man.

 

Alright guys. First of all sorry not to come out and give you all an update sooner. i was really really busy today. But, alas, im home now. Mark you pretty much covered everything from yesterday pretty well. I agree it sounded similar to a tapping noise. Greg/Mark Yes i did need new bearings. and no the crank was not brought down a size it was only polished. And unfortunately i didnt take a picture of the bearings that were all scratched up. but you can definitely tell they were pretty F'd up.

Now as for All i did today. I asked for the day off today so i could get a jump start on my weekend and find out the problem to my truck and my oil consumption problem on my car. Anywho. I went to my girl's Uncle's auto parts store today so i could show them exactly what Mark and i were hearing yesterday on the stethoscope. But unfortunetly the darn truck did not knock 1 time the whole time i was there!!! it was really frustrating because these guys couldnt hear what i was trying to show them even with the stethoscope. Same thing happened when i took the truck on wednesday. So as we were trying to figure out the problem guess who comes showing up to buy parts for a car he was working in? My mechanic. So i explained once again and my girls uncles translated. And not only that there were 2 other guys from a different mechanic shop that were also buying parts there. those guys over heard us talking and everyone there came to the conclusion that it may be possible that my truck just isnt lubricating all that it can be due to the wrong type of oil i used in my previous oil change. Last time i used 10/30 oil. They told me its worth a shot just to use "Johnson's Engine Flush, use 10/40 oil(non synthetic), And use the Motor Purr additive(similar to the lucas product just much thicker and much smaller bottle). They all said that in many cases that solves a lot of peoples ticking problems. Now.... if that doesnt solve it. they said another thing they think it might be(coming from my mechanic) is that something might have came loose like a pin or something. (my girls uncles said they agreed after he had left due to knowing i revved it pretty high on our last trip) And if that is the case then the piston will have some sort of a wiggle or some kind of a movement that isnt how it should be moving(gosh i hope you understand what i mean, cant really explain that part too well) But if that is the case then the mechanic said just bring it in and we will tear it apart again and re do it. But they wanted me to try out the engine flush, 10/40 oil, motor purr additive first.

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Now with all that said i went through with the oil change and everything they recommended and i have to say the ticking still hasnt came up(only the normal ticking it has always had from the start) The ticking has definitely quieted down some but it still has me very puzzled. I wont be able to say for sure if the problem was resolved and was indeed a lubrication problem but i will definitely be able to tell you guys by tomorrow morning after the engine has sat with no operation for 11 hours because that is usually when i would hear the ticking noise at its loudest. Also Apart from this ticking noise that we've been talking about, I have also had a 2nd noise that i kept trying to explain to you guys and show you on tape but this noise was never picked up on a recording till today.
I recorded this after i changed the oil. Definitely sounds like a metal on metal, hissing or a scratching kind of sound. I tried using the stethoscope to pin point if the sound was coming from my transmission like i previously thought. but now i have a feeling it might be coming from the bottom of the engine. I could not pin point the origin to the sound due to it stopping but i definitely heard it at its loudest under the truck. And i got some video of this noise i am talking about now. Gonna upload it right now and i'll post it asap.