ToyoTech559

Buy the headers

Redeth005

Yea Mark, It was alot of typing and i got lazy so i just copied the text messages i sent to you and pasted them on my thread haha. I know Lazy but it beats typing out all the details all over again. Especially when you have to type on a phone. Only so fast you can text-type, in hiding, at work. lol

and thanks for looking out for me Dude. Anything you find will help. Just remember my engine knowledge is limited(unfortunately) so not much i might understan in mechanic terms ha ha!

Yea I wanna buy them, but i need a price first. Dont know how much he's willing to let them go for. And the good thing about those is that he was saying they are good for a CA legal upgrade. So who knows i'll find out a price later today when i see him.

Redeth005

dont know if that could be a problem. but who knows. I outta take a Reader to the computer and see if something specific comes up. Isnt that how it usually works with those things?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Well, I would assume you could rule out/conclude a culprit/ the EGR temp sensor pretty quick, Richard. There are procedures, maybe even in the Haynes, but SURELY in the FSM, where you can test the EGR Temp sensor for resistance and such. See, in my rig, the EGR simply works off vacuum that's there in the system, regulated by the Modulator(EGR Solenoid, like you bought).... BUT, YOUR system has a Temp Sensor that reads exhaust gas temps as they travel back through the EGR from the head, then through and into the intake to be reintroduced. I can clearly see in that pic where your EGR temp sensor is(on the pipe that is left/post EGR, right before it re-enters the intake). Whether you're tripping that sensor due to 'air leaks due to missing bolts', or not, ....I'm first interested as to WHICH NUTS/BOLTS? Is it a bolt missing where the EGR bolts to the intake? Or where it bolts to the head? I'm assuming you mean by the intake.... SO>>>>>;

1. If air is entering at the intake through a gap/missing bolt situation in the EGR-Intake Mating.... How would that cool the "EGR Temp Sensor"?? Hear me out--- The EGR is pulling gasses from the BOTTOM/head, then the diaphragm in the EGR fluctuates by the action of the Modulator(and in your case, I'm assuming through the EGR VSV as well... Guessing it's the RED Switching valve of the 3 you just bought)..... ANYWAY, THENNNNNNNN... The gasses pass through the Diapragm area and past the EGR Temp Sensor....and THEN on into the intake to be reintroduced into the combustion chamber. I can't see how the Temp Sensor would even notice that the leak is there... HOWEVER, it would provide a possibly SUBSTANTIAL Vacuum leak in your system, Richard.... So either way, YES, it has to be fixed... But having an effect on the EGR Temp Sensor? >>> NOT saying it 'CAN'T'.... just want someone to explain to me HOW?

2. NOW.... What I THINK would be more likely..... "You have a missing bolt/nut, causing a possibly substantial vacuum leak..... Due to this, the EGR-VSV(vacuum switching valve, ...maybe the red or blue or green one?) is 'sensing' an inadequate amount of vacuum and tripping the code. (KEEP IN MIND, I have not had time to read the break down of your 71 code.... So I don't know all the variables as to what it could actually be).

3. Another possibility is that the EGR-VSV and even the leak you have might have NOTHING to do with the code..... What if it ACTUALLY IS the EGR Temp Sensor???

......YES, I can see the leak being a problem... AND I WOULD FIX IT, IMMEDIATELY! But I have learned to do a "P.O.E."(process of elimination) BEFORE ANYTHING, including grabbing parts, even to swap in from a buddy, etc..... "Trace back from the Last known apparatus/sensor/whichever are part of the process of whatever you are looking into.... SOMETHING will reveal itself". For example;

1. EGR, itself, has procedures for testing.... It is, at least in my FSM for the 22re, the FIRST thing to rule out as to whether it's operating or not.....

2. If the EGR is operating, it's likely that it's either not operating 'WELL ENOUGH', or something else that relays info to the ECU, thereafter/theretofore the EGR is NOT GOOD.

3. EVEN IF you have a leak that needs to be repaired.... WHAT IS IT 'SETTING OFF' in the way of Codes? Sure, you know you have an EGR/71 Code... But why?

4. One of the tests it will call for will be the EGR Temp Sensor... This is part of the P.O.E. The testing will be SIMPLE... Simply read them and apply the contacts of your Multi-Meter to the pins in the EGR Temp Sensor Connector and read the resistance Value(or maybe it's a voltage reading, I have no idea, don't have one, lol). Either way, it's gonna be simple to rule out. Sensors are notorious(especially with MASSIVE corrosion like you've had) for having either badly oxidized contacts or even having pins back out of them or break. By lightly pulling on the wiring AT THE SENSOR/and connector, you can see if one of the wires is actually loose/compromised, ya know? But again, first, I'd test it using the procedure in the FSM/Haynes.

5. FIRST THING, before you go any further, is; "Visit Napa or whatever store, even Dealer, and grab a NEW Gasket for that 'EGR-to-INTAKE' or 'EGR-to-HEAD' surface, replace it, and THEN 'reset the ECU' and drive around until the code reappears. IF NOT, VOILA, he was right and you have solved your problem, ....at least for now.

************************************************** *********************

As Per HAYNES, Chapter 6-pg. 38(6-38).....

Code 71; EGR System Malfunction

...............A. EGR gas tem. below predetermined level during EGR operation
...............B. Open Circuit EGR gas temp. sensor signal( THG).

Culprits;

...............A. EGR Valve
...............B. EGR Hose
...............C. EGR gas temp. sensor circuit
...............D. EGR gas temp. sensor
...............E. VSV for EGR circuit
...............F. ECU

************************************************** *********************

Now that I'm looking at the diagram for your Emissions System(V6 88 and later). I can see that you have those 3 VSV's that you've replaced somewhere on the fender/under the EGR stuff's on the passenger side. I believe you had the same code before replacing those... So it's not LIKELY it's a 'improperly routed hose', etc. Just try to triple check the routing diagram on the underside of the hood to be sure. The EGR VSV is on the right in the diagram.... I also see your Fuel Pressure Unit VSV is the one in the middle and the AS VSV is on the left(AS is a reed valve). I can also see where the EGR is bolted to the head now(already can see where it's bolted to the intake). As I mentioned... the UPPER pipe doesn't seem to me that it would create a 'code', per say... BUT, the lower hose having a leak? OH YES, that could be very possible. Considering all the rot on your rigs sensors, etc., I'm wondering if that EGR pipe/flex portion has been compromised. But, I wouldn't want you to replace something that's not even for sure a problem, ya know? Maybe for the heck of it just wrap it in some exhaust tape? Then, also, fix the leaking bolt/flange. Then reset and run it to see if you find the code again. Personally, if it was me, I would quickly just run a multi meter test on the EGR Temp Sensor as well. I believe there is even an ECU pin test for that Sensor.

Sorry man, ... just trying to think out loud and throw it out there... I KNOW what it's like to fight emissions crap... and I'm not even sure I've 'SOLVED' my issue... might have just masked it by throwing a new CAT on, ya know? It was just barely failing at one and a lil worse on the Nox.... but still, what I really care about, as should you, is "Is this going to cause me longevity issues with this motor that I've put so much into?".... Forget having to buy a new CAT again in 2 years... that's the least of my concerns.... THE MOTOR not running too lean or rich...THAT is what I am concerned about.

BTW; This issue, whatever it is, could VERY EASILY be the 'primary' cause for your poor mileage. Let's knock this out ASAP and not take the easy route to get by, risking,....eh chemmmmmm, you know.... TROUBLE ! ? ! ? ! hahaha.

I will bet dollars to donuts that it's either a false reading related to the leak you guys found.... OR, a problem arising due to the 'clogged vacuum port'(MAYBE< still not sure it's clogged... maybe just not opening because it's not being triggered to by the VSV? I'd have to look).... ORRRRRRRRRR, the EGR Temp Sensor/Sensor Circuit. LOOK AT THAT CONNECTOR and temp sensor itself, Richard... if it's totally ROTTED/the sensor or the connector is corroded.... that is DEFINITELY gonna cause you problems, whether it's the source of the code or not, ya feel me?

Redeth005

Oh wow!
First of all, DAAAAAAAAAAMMMNNNN! THAT IS ONE BIG POST!
2nd, yes I did read through it all
3rd it was very helpful. I will see to it that I put that info to good use.
4th thank you very much Mark for doing all his research when you didnt have to or weren't asked. i really appriciate it.

Well. To answer one of the questions... One of the 2 bolts that was missing is on the side of where it goes back into the intake area.(after the EGR and temp sensor) I need to re read this some more and reply to this again. I read all of this on my cell phone so I might have missed a thing or two.

Redeth005

HERE WE GO MARK!
Did this so you have a better idea of what i was talking about earlier.

Redeth005

The sensor looked to be in good condition yesterday. But in the process of removing it yesterday i accidentally slipped my wrench and hit the plastic connector. and due to it being old, it was easily broken. I still reconnected it. but now it is exposed to where as before it was fine. DAMN TEMP SENSOR IS ALMOST $150 ONLINE WTH!!!! Either way, whether it was broken now or not. The Check engine light did happen to come up before i hit it with my slipped wrench.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

My pleasure, Richard

Hmmmm, not sure what that lower one is........ Lemme see, brb.....

Looks like it could be either the Fuel Pressure Unit... Cuz from the diagram, it appears that the "AS" Reed Valve is actually right near/to the left/slightly under the EGR.... Under the word "Bottom" in your writing. Can't see, but under that word, is that a diaphragm type apparatus? The AS Reed Valve seems to have a hard line going to it like parts of the Reed System(even on the 22RE)... Simply look at what I told you as to which VSV is which.... and if the Middle of the 3 VSV's is going to that diaphragm unit... it's the FPU-VSV. If it's the one on the left, .... It's the REED-A.S. Valve. Obviously, you know which is going to the EGR, the one on the right.

I'm learning as I go, and diagrams in the Haynes or even FSM at times aren't really 'ACTUAL location-wise accurate', ya know what I mean? lol.

Which hose is not feeding vacuum? Take the hose off that vacuum port in the intake(IF THAT'S where it's PULLING from)...and see if you can get a toothpic or then something bigger through there... If it IS a vacuum port that's involved.... I doubt you can get ANYTHING through it like that, because it would pull vacuum.

I would also get a Vacuum Gauge and even Vacuum Pump, Richard... They're VERY helpful tools, ESPECIALLY in the realm of "EMISSIONS"

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Ahhh, just read what you said.... My response;

IT IS VERY telling that the Code/CEL came up AFTER the build! It should have been there all along, man.... That would suggest to me that SOMETHING is not routed properly. Wish it was in front of me, .....but alas, life isn't always that convenient! hahaha.

Redeth005

Yes but also keep I'm mind I only drove my truck a total of about 60-70 miles tops from the point to where I bought it, to driving it home, to taking it to get rebuilt. Not many miles. It is possible the previous owner reset the light as well and i didn't drive it enough for it to read everything and finally pop up.

Cuz this past time when I reset my light to see if the problem was fixed I had to drive approx. 120 miles before it Finally lit up again. It could have been that.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Yep, could have been that, indeed

YET, ....in the end, .......... "CEL is on, Mister..... Go fix it and come back for a retest"......

I know, you have an alternative for now... Just want to see you get it 'FIXED' and not actually the other way unless it's necessary... Cuz it might be causing high internal combustion temps, etc., ya know? Whatever it is, 11mpg is not really right.... Unless you stomped on it from the moment you took off at mile 1 through 120 miles when you parked it? haha....

Either way, you gotta do whatcha gotta do, i get it... Only so much 'spare' time. I had 'one of those days', today..... WOW hahaha.

Redeth005

Yea i know what you mean. I wanna work on it only thing now is hardly any money. Bills went through. you know what a pain that can be lol.

but yea those 11mpg are horrible. seriously would be nice if i could just change that whole area out for new parts. lol wouldnt have to worry about that again for a long time if i did.

Redeth005

Alright, yesterday, while looking at the vacuum lines. i discovered one vacuum line that wasnt connected. I couldnt take any pix to show you because its in the rear of the motor and its a very hard-to-reach spot. Anyway while at an auto store there was a mechanic picking up some parts in a 2nd gen 4runner. and i asked if he could tell me where "this hose" in particular goes. and he showed me on his motor(since he also had the 3.0) and it was pretty easy to get to on his. So he offered to plug it in for me free of charge.

We went to my truck and the Space is only about 1" maybe 1.5" whide barely enough to stick your hand in. but not enough room to see with your eyes. I guess 2nd gen 4runners have more space to work with under the hood because there was alot more space in his and i could see where it connects to on his as well.

Anyway. i let the mechanic try to plug it in. and said that the connector is missing. Said it is like a sensor or something but the piece where that tube goes into is broken thus meaning i cant plug it in. So ATM i am driving with one unconnected vacuum hose.

HERE IS A DIAGRAM TO BETTER EXPLAIN WHERE AND WHICH HOSE IM TALKING ABOUT.
It is the hose that is connected to the Charcoal canister(on the left) And where its supposed to be plugging into but can't is at the "BVSV"


Does anyone know if this could be the cause to my Check Engine light or even be related to that problem im getting right now? AND Can this be the hose that is making me use so much gas?

Redeth005

Did some research on Yotatech and found this.
its the only 3 posts that were on one user's thread.

SO if the 2nd reply is correct, then that means that the EGR failure thing coming up would definitely be for that reason right? i would imagine at least.

I feel like a detective doing some undercover work on finding out what the hell this problem is lol
finally paying off

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Wow, that's strange... My BVSV is a unit on the front of the intake, above the coolant temp sensor and CSI time switch... What's STRANGE is this; My BVSV controls the EGR after coolant is warm enough(BVSV is a 'bi-metallic switching valve'... it expands/retracts according to coolant temp, and if it's not working/broken/disconnected... it would SEVERELY effect MY EGR... But on yours, it appears to be going to 1. The Charcoal Can and 2. the Throttle Body E port??????? STILL, YES, it could effect things...dramatically! The Charcoal Can takes fuel that's pushed back through via vapors under "hot soak"??? from the Throttle body and feeds it back to the tank after filtering it... It's filtering all the combustion impurities from it, etc. It also relieves pressure in the fuel that's coming from there before dropping it back to the tank(???? guys??? ) Anywhooo.... I could easily see that, the way yours is set up, effecting your mileage. On mine, the Throttle Body vacuum line goes back to the charcoal can... On yours, it's coming from the same place, the throttle body... but then it travels through the BVSV, according to coolant temp, back into the Charcoal can.... Hmmmmm, Trippy, but makes sense.

What I DO KNOW, Richard, is that it's a DEFINITE vacuum leak. The sensor is there, HAS TO BE, ..... otherwise you'd be leaking coolant all over(Unless someone put a plug? But why would then and then leave the charcoal can hose there? Doesn't make sense)... Could be that the guy who rebuilt it, broke it... maybe didn't even realize. Either way, you need it. I would GUESS, only a guess, that for now, you can bypass it and plug the line from the throttle body, which then hits the BVSV And then the BVSV feeds the charcoal can.... hook that line from the Throttle Body right to the Charcoal can.... Then run it a bit and see if the code goes away(CEL goes away, I mean).

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

I doubt it's the source of your code, other than; A vacuum leak could create conditions that are not friendly to 1. Fuel Economy and then more applicably, 2. .... unfriendly to the EGR system and the vacuum it needs to operate. Once you plug that up or do what I said, 'bypass the BVSV'.... You will find the idle go down, NOTICEABLY, I'll bet you. Maybe 100-200rpm. It's unmetered air.... And that kind of air is not your friend!

First, you gotta deal with it, one way or the other... And at emissions testing, remember.... They vacuum test the system, INCLUDING THE CHARCOAL CANISTER, ya know? So, not sure if completely taking that out of the picture would effect the test... but I BET it would, and negatively. Plus, you have to deal with it in order to get a vacuum leak dealt with.

Maybe on Saturday, i could help you with this..... still trying to get that day free! BUT I THINK I HAVE IT FIGURED OUT hahaha. I have plenty of vacuum hose, a multi-meter, vacuum gauge AND pump.... Plus much more. And, if we hit the PUPart.... we could maybe find a BVSV? Sure, you COULD delete it, all together... But WHY? Toyota did things for a reason... And unless you're talking EGR delete, etc., when you move to Oregon where there's mostly no smog testing... Then I would make sure 'all the bells and whistles are there', ya know? I BET we find one, if we can find a V6 in tact. Might even find an EGR, too! (why not, it's what, 10$? Instead of 400$? hahaha).

First, deal with that vacuum leak and see how it runs... just do what I said and run the line straight from the throttle body to the charcoal canister, ok? If you need more line, just go to AutoZone or whatever is close to you and bring some in and grab a comparable size piece of vacuum hose(couple bucks$). Then you can just replace both sides when you get the BVSV by cutting that longer piece in two and running it to the BVSV from the throttle body AND Charcoal can.

Redeth005

Yea bro im gonna give that a shot. BTW i just got off the phone with one of my high school buddies that work at autozone. That piece only cost like $53. I think its worth buying brand new rather then getting an old one. I think im gonna go ahead and buy it today along with some new vac. hoses. Either way it still needs them ya know.

As far as the pick ur part. I'm still down i still need to buy "newer" side panels for the back of my truck that arent brittle and broken like mine are.

And if i cant figure out/ or get someone to remove that top intake part so i can get to that valve then im down to have a little quick project with you installing it this saturday, that is, if u get the day off.

Dude Seriously this find made me happy yesterday. but what really made my day was finding out all the info to that piece and what it does and what can happen if its not working or plugged in.
I'm really anxious to fix this damn thing!!!

I would try to fix it today but today i gotta attend my baby girl's graduation. NO I DONT HAVE A KID! My 1&1/2 Year old pitbull/german shephered is graduating from Dog obedience class! YAY! lol

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hahahaha! I IMMEDIATELY thought you had a kid... Then laughed even harder at "Dog Graduation", haha... That's cool, man! ..... Just don't tell me you spend 200$ on Dog Therapy, .....or I'ma call the crazy police! haha. Obedience Training HELPED TREMENDOUSLY with my Keeshound! Do they still do the 'toss the choke chain at the butt and then call them like you're rescuing them from a startling tap on the rump' training? hehehe... That REALLY worked to get my dog to ALWAYS come, as she trusted me to rescue her/know what's best for her.

Anyway, sounds good... I hope I can help, and yeah, kinda a bear to get that BVSV swapped out, isn't it? HAVE to remove the intake, eh? Have to drain the coolant a bit most likely, too... and if you do it yourself, use a lil thread sealant(the good kind that's heat and coolant and pressure resistant) on the threads.

I hear ya on the "NEW" part... Even though I'd rather have OEM, this is one I would imagine would be fine for quite a many miles without worry, it's a very basic valve with basic functions.

ToyoTech559

I have those headers and when I smog. They didn't even know they where there lol.

Redeth005

Dont mind me or this post. This is just a "Note to self" for future reference for when i go ahead and install that BVSV. i just dont wanna loose this page. Thats all.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f128...cement-233708/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And This is the piece that I mentioned in that picture I edited. On the far bottom. I circled it in blue. It is called a VSV valve. And it is one of the pieces that I mentioned was also corroded and broken. And is this piece is broken then this piece here could also be causing the problem. Just read on this thread below that it can have something to do with an EGR problem and bring up a code 71.
So looks like I got 2 problems in my hands. This one, however, is a very easy fix. I can do this one myself in like 3-5 minutes.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f16/3vze-error-code-71-egr-gas-temp-sensor-59386/