theizzardking

yeah sounds like a cheaper set up to me, as a single arb air locker in the rear will run you that alone, sounds like maybe just 2 lsd's which are semi-worthless in my opinion.
they work like lockers but with clutches, which means they can wear out quickly from improper driving styles and well they just plain wear out. also as not being truly locked together, this means you will still get some wheel slippage, it may not be noticeable but it's there and gets worse as the discs wear as with a true mech locker you have these two big massive gears that are pushed together via compressed air, electricity or a cable pull and won't fail or allow wheel slippage.
read this for what a locker is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locking_differential
and read this as well good info for wrapping your head around things
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-wheel_drive

AxleIke

My personal experience has been that LSDs do not work at all like lockers. I was extremely dissatisfied with mine offroad, though the on road manners were great. Essentially I noticed zero difference between open and the LSD.

I don't recommend LSD's for anyone that is considering more than just mild trail riding.

tc

So, I get the feeling you're saying they're stupid, when you post this...

The brand you are thinking of is OX locker. Unfortunately, they don't have any applications for Toyota minitrucks, as they require a diff cover.

Downey (RIP) had a cable actuator for the Toyota elocker.

Any properly installed and maintained locker will be as "reliable" as anything else used 'wheeling.

Lastly, x2 for AxleIke's opinion of LSD's used offroad in "more than moderate" 'wheeling. Molly's rig has a Trutrac in the front and it NEVER gets praised for helping you out, and FREQUENTLY gets cursed for not working like you wish it would.

AxleIke

Welded spider gears have a lot to fail. Usually when they go, it's pretty catastrophic. Properly welded, they can hold up quite well, but often, they are not.

A spool is much more reliable, and quite a bit stronger.

Again, probably best in a trail only vehicle.

theizzardking

lol, yeah a bit, it's been a few years since i was into all of this and some information as escaped me, but that's my point you have all of these people asking about lockers and they really don't even know what they are, they just see people in the know like you guys saying you "lock it buddy!" (and i completely agree with you) but wouldn't you want to know exactly what a locker does or how it works first before you dump 1K or more in to fitting one up?

and yeah i know what you guys are saying about the lsd's personally they are the non-option option, meaning they are completely useless imo, but i have heard others try and debate me on that one, so i was just covering my ass in short. i had a lsd in my 5.9L jeep with the dana44a and since the only locker for that axle is hard to find and pricey when you do. so i went with a lsd which lasted about a month if that(to be honest i could never tell when it did work)

as far as a spool being more durable than a weld job? possibly but i doubt it, if you do a good job welding you essentially eliminate the front diff all together for a "more true" solid axle. but then again i could be wrong like i said it's been a few years or more and i know jack about toyota's as of now and really just an intermediate knowledge of 4x4 systems. working on it but still no freaking guru, it's why i'm making my debut here in the newbie section lol!

AxleIke

A spool is simply a fully machined piece of metal that has a surface for mounting the ring gear and splined tubes for the axles. They are stronger than a welded diff because the welded diff is only as strong as the carrier.

Spool:

theizzardking

aaahhh there we go, thanks for that! i did a catia model of one of these a few years ago, i thought they were mainly used for tractor pulls and such and welded/spools are far above my level of wheeling, i've always just been happy with lockers! lol

thanks for setting me straight axleike!

AxleIke

Eh no worries.

Spools and welded aren't actually that common. Most rigs prefer something that gives them some ability to turn at least. Most of the rock buggies and racers I've seen run a detroit in the rear, as they are darn near bullet proof. Some will run the spools/welded, but most prefer at least some differentiation. Lots run ARB's as well.

ARB's are some of the strongest carriers out there, far better than stock. Only issue is that air lines can get leaks, and while that is an easy fix for a truck on a trail, its not the sort you want to try to do during a race. My ARB's are a HUGE improvement strength wise over stock, and I've yet to have an air leak in 3 years. I'm upgrading to stainless lines here shortly as well, which will virtually insure no leaks.

cr@ves4wheelin

I got my '91 pickup with the 4 inch suspension lift and yeah it does screw up my steering components a lot. I already had to get a new idler arm by hitting a "small" bump I didn't see in the mud. I'm only 17 and money does come on the knife's edge sometimes, but I'm a proud toyota owner willing to do what I can to improve my truck.

I'm runnin 33x12.50xR15. What pinch weld modification made the tires on TC's 4-runner fit? You think I should take the lift off?

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Some information on the pinch weld modifications below:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...it.shtml#FAQ10

AxleIke

I wouldn't take the lift off unless you want to.

You've already got it on, and you seem to enjoy it. No need to get rid of it, unless you find yourself tipping over a lot.

If you got it, flaunt it.

This thread was mainly to point out the flaws in the normal mode of modification, ie, put on big tires and big lift to go offroad. I've found that to be least effective.

Wes94

So if i am going to lock up my diffs in stages, would you recommend doing the front or rear first?

Also I have heard of people putting an ARB air locker in the front and "just a detroit" in the back. Does this make sense for someone trying to keep the spending down? Would it really make a big performance difference to put an air locker in the front and rear?

I think lockers would make me a lot better at climbing steep sand hills and getting over rough sections of trail that leave me with a tire off the ground. I think they would also be helpful for pulling people out of the ditch in snow storms. Is this correct?

tc

The only lockers that don't sacrifice on-road driveability for off-road performance are the selectables (ARB or Toyota elocker in our case). Having a locker on slick surfaces actually REDUCES your lateral stability since both tires are spinning now - this can be bad on snowy roads.

Any locker will help in the steep sand hills and rough trail sections. Depending on the conditions, they may help or they may hurt when pulling people out of the snowy ditch... which is why I have dual ARB's.

One other thing to consider is if other people (wife, etc) drive your truck. With a selectable, the truck is still "stock" to them on the road. You don't have to worry that they won't believe you about staying off the throttle in turns until they put it in the ditch.

Certainly, selectables have a cost/complexity penalty over other lockers, but only you can weigh the importance of that over the performance both on the road and on the trail.

Wes94

Thanks that makes a lot of sense. I am planning to teach my wife to drive stick (once i have a spare clutch on hand) with this truck so it would make sense to have the selectable for that reason among others.

In this case i won't be doing both at the same time unless i decide to regear both cases as well but i have 4.56 now and i don't plan on running anything bigger than 33s. I have 32x11.5s now and i like them a lot.

So should if i was going to put an ARB on just one diff for now should i do the front or back first? Or should i just save until i can do both at the same time?

tc

You can do one at a time ... IMHO, the front increases the capability of the truck more, but certainly has more downsides.... namely that you can put 100% of the torque from the motor into one CV. If you're not a throttle jockey, I say front, if you have a heavy right foot, then rear.

stock as possible

Where's a decent place to get new gears? A lot of the online stores I've looked at have new gears and master install kits for the 8" rear but don't sell either the gears or the install kits for the 7.5" IFS diff. I have a 92 pu and would like to regear to 4.88. Should I just try to pull front and rear off a V6 auto from the junk yard?

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

Marlin has them
http://www.marlincrawler.com/differential/ring-pinion
Also check out this site. Zuk recommends him and I got my stuff through him as well. If you call he may put together a nice package deal for you (gears & setup kits)
http://www.justdifferentials.com/ind...0b67cf64efd152

stock as possible

Thanks blknblu, I may go that route. However, I have found a craigslist post selling a 4.88 IFS diff and a new 4.88 rear gear. The seller told me the front diff came out of an 88 pu, will that bolt in to my 92 front?

tc

Yes, the 88 diff will work in your '92.

tc

Note: one clarification - ADD.

If your truck was ADD, then it's all good, but if it was a non-ADD diff, you have to realize that the front driveshaft will be spinning now. At some point down the road, installing manual hubs would be recommended.

If your truck was non-ADD and you install an ADD diff, you will have to lock the shift yoke "engaged". Search - there are writeups on how to do this, it's a common mod if the ADD actuator system fails.