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Delete roll-up window and replace with flip-up type on first-gen 4runner

Old 01-28-2018, 07:23 PM
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Delete roll-up window and replace with flip-up type on first-gen 4runner

(moving discussion here)
delete roll-up window and replace with flip-up type on first-gen 4runner

I hate the roll-up rear window with a passion. I'm sure they were patting the back of engineer who designed the roll-up rear window... Until they realized:
1) If the battery dies, it will not work. Why put a window that relies on power on an otherwise spartan truck? DUH!
2) When camped in the truck one could not open the rear without having to scramble to the driver side, turn ignition on, and operate the window switch, then reverse the process when back in the truck. Of course, I implemented the solution for that.
3) If camped in the back and there is an electrical fire, electrical system would most likely be dead, fire would most likely be in front, and one could not open the window, so either he breaks the window (messy, dangerous), OR take escape route TOWARD the fire. DUH!
4) When window is opened in the rain, it's so slow that more water gets in before you are able to do what you need to do,
5) The 4Runner is based on the pickup. Pickups had been getting camper shell / caps for a long time. What is so hard about using the already popular flip-up window?

Solution: Convert window to flip-up window.
This would address all of the above, lighten the tailgate and make it available for more storage.

From other thread ...
Originally Posted by wyoming9 View Post
just buy a pop up camper and be done....A pick up and a cap...
Originally Posted by somedayj View Post
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f115...-shell-265211/
a toyota truck tailgate and a camper shell flip-up rear glass and you solve your problems.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f115...28/index2.html
Originally Posted by old87yota View Post
i have to agree, sorry ray....
It sounds like you need a base model pickup with no options, much less to go wrong straight from the factory...
I'm not just concerned about camping. It's just a poor design that gets things wet longer while I wait for window to roll up or down.
I prefer the length of the 4Runner, I will keep Ruby Tuesday whose history I know very well, I had customized and improved reliability of exactly to my liking, and value more than any buyer would. But speaking of camping, with a 4Runner, I can stop anywhere I want or need to and crawl between the back the front, to sleep, operate controls, etc without having to go out of the vehicle.

Also, my original idea simply involves:
1) Finding the right hinges,
2) Cut polycarbonate sheet to size
3) Apply weatherstripping on fiberglas lip.

Pickup Camper/Cap option means:
1) Having to find a cap that would fit a 4Runner,
2) Figure out a way to seal the front of the cap and the rear of the 4runner cabin that would be left open. Sounds like a lot of work.

Last edited by RAD4Runner; 01-28-2018 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:57 PM
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Speaking of vehicle fire, Just saw one on the freeway today... NOT A TOYOTA


ARTICLE HERE
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:22 PM
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Frame-less Examples

I would like the flip-up window to be simple, light, frame-less, like those on the Ford Expedition, Jeep Wrangler, FJ Cruiser.
If anyone has had success in doing this, please share what you have done.
Did you find existing windows that plugged and played or installed with minor mods like trimming to shape/fit?
If you have to build from scratch, what hinges, window material, latches, weather-stripping, etc did you use? (I plan to use dark-grey polycarbonate. That stuff is bullet-proof).




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Old 01-28-2018, 10:09 PM
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Should have moved this to fabrication section.

The second example seems about spot on.

See if you can get a response from slacker, he probably has something he can mock up a flip style rear window on, and knowledge of the best practices for adding a weather seal.
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Old 01-29-2018, 06:50 AM
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What using parts from a 3rd gen? Im with you, I would much rather it flip up.
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Old 01-29-2018, 11:20 AM
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Replace 4runner with a Land Cruiser and be done with it, they all have 2-piece tailgate hatches
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Old 01-29-2018, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bump530 View Post
What using parts from a 3rd gen? Im with you, I would much rather it flip up.
Flip-up for sure, but I want minimal parts, work and weight so it would have to be frameless. Transplanting 3rd-gen tailgate would be too much work.

Originally Posted by highonpottery View Post
Replace 4runner with a Land Cruiser and be done with it, they all have 2-piece tailgate hatches
Too much money and hardware for what I need... But on second thought... How much do you think should I offer for this? LOL
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Old 01-30-2018, 04:22 AM
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Ray - I think it's a neat idea. Look how many posts there are about the rear window not working, definitely not Toyota's finest engineering. If you were closer, I'd let you have my glass as a template to cut a piece of polycarb. With just the right hinges this will be awesome.
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Old 01-30-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by highonpottery View Post
Replace 4runner with a Land Cruiser and be done with it, they all have 2-piece tailgate hatches
No! Bad idea! If he buy a Land Cruiser he'll leave the truck/4runner forum.
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:53 AM
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I have a Cruiser and still hang out here...

For that 70-series....1st born child? lol. Myself and several thousand others would love to own a 70-series in the USA
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Old 01-30-2018, 05:33 PM
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LOL! Yep!

Another model of what I'm trying to make...
Nice simple hinges, frameless...
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:37 PM
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If I was wanting to do something like this, I'd set it up like a jeep wrangler rear window that's on the hard tops. That way the glass would fold down and the tailgate would close and keep the window shut. I would weld the top of the tailgate closed, add a tailgate style handle to it, and remove the rear glass and related parts inside. That way you could make the tailgate a rear storage locker too.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 84 yota dude View Post
If I was wanting to do something like this, I'd set it up like a jeep wrangler rear window that's on the hard tops. That way the glass would fold down and the tailgate would close and keep the window shut. I would weld the top of the tailgate closed, add a tailgate style handle to it
Yes, those all are good, but being a minimalist (with limited,space, equipment, and I like less work, less hardware, less cutting, no welding) I just want to add a frameless polycarb window, hinges, weather stripping, latch(es), like examples below... Wondering if anybody has had success with this before.







Tailgate over the window may not be necessary; I've never seen any after-market truck cap with tailgate over window, yet I haven't heard of any problem with it.
Cory85 and I are brainstorming how to keep stock tailgate handle, but limit the area the linkages occupy.

...remove the rear glass and related parts inside. That way you could make the tailgate a rear storage locker too.
YUP, One of my objectives...
Originally Posted by RAD4Runner View Post
...Convert window to flip-up window.
This would address all of the above, lighten the tailgate and make it available for more storage.....

Last edited by RAD4Runner; 01-31-2018 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:35 PM
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When you first brought up the idea of a flip-up window, my first thought was the rear window of a Toyota Trekker. After all, it was the forerunner to the 4Runner.

The design was nowhere near as sleek as modern examples above though...


Photo source: http://offroadaction.ca/2017/03/25/1...ebago-trekker/


Last edited by old87yota; 01-31-2018 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Added Photo source
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by old87yota View Post
When you first brought up the idea of a flip-up window, my first thought was the rear window of a Toyota Trekker. After all, it was the forerunner to the 4Runner.

The design was nowhere near as sleek as modern examples above though...



Exactly what inspired me.
It worked, right? Why convert to a roll-up window that would get stuck if battery dies, is slow to open and close, makes the tailgate heavy, and does not add any shelter from a San Diego (LOL!) drizzle when opened? Toyota could have put all that engineering effort toward a better cranking system, a better headlight system, etc.
Yes, I just need to look for nicer hinges. If that's yours, mind sharing pictures of how weather stripping is applied and where?
How the latch works? Lockable from outside and can be operated from inside? Or maybe the tailgate locks window in place like 84 yota dude says above^^^?

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Old 01-31-2018, 09:59 PM
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I think Toyota's reasoning for the electric rear window was to help market the 4Runner as a more up-scale version of the pickup. It was something fancy like the rear heater to help attract buyers to Toyota. Electric rear window comes standard gives the impression that the 4Runner is fancier than it really is. I figure that Toyota's electrical engineers only designed the more basic starting and headlight circuits because they probably would not have been able to design the ECU. I suspect Denso had much better electrical engineers than Toyota at the time.

Sadly, this is not my Trekker, I wish it was!
I just Googled "Toyota Trekker"

Here is the website the picture came from: http://offroadaction.ca/2017/03/25/1...ebago-trekker/

There are a few pictures of the rear window open and you can see the section right below the glass is actually attached to the glass. The handle is in this part.



For your design, you could use the "T" handle locks found on truck caps, a little harder to do with a frame-less window.

Maybe you could try to PM Dropzone. He used to have a Trekker and might be able to give you better descriptions of how the back end was put together.

This project will probably take quite a bit of thought to get right.

Get the coffee ready!

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Old 02-01-2018, 12:01 PM
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Oh, I see, the trekker's is not frame-less.

Originally Posted by old87yota View Post
I think Toyota's reasoning for the electric rear window was to help market the 4Runner as a more up-scale version of the pickup. ...
Makes sense, the wifey calls it 'The Automatic" - LOL!

For your design, you could use the "T" handle locks found on truck caps, a little harder to do with a frame-less window....
Yes, that first came to mind first. Will google how the handle is linked to latches on the edges of the "glass". Hoping Robb and Slacker can comment as well.
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Old 02-01-2018, 03:25 PM
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The trekker uses a central located "cam lock" with a striker plate, you can see it in the photo above. There is a fixed arm on the inside that rides along a striker plate. You can get something like this at a boat store, topper place, probably even the big box hatdware stores, with a key cylinder.

The topper on my 94 uses dual latches like above on each side, but they also put a single handle in the middle on some models that slide bars into the sides with a similar cam mechanical to the truck/4runner factory gate latch (push type instead of pull)
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Old 02-01-2018, 04:27 PM
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Hardware Choices

Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
...The topper on my 94 uses dual latches like above on each side, but they also put a single handle in the middle on some models that slide bars into the sides with a similar cam mechanical to the truck/4runner factory gate latch (push type instead of pull)
Thanks, Co!
Yeah, They're called cam-operated lock bars / deadbolt and operated with T-handles that can be locked. Turns out there's a lot of choices out there.
My first step would be figure out shape and size of glass (Polycarbonate sheet really), then find hinges and locks that will fit.


Cam-operated lock-bar.
It Would be nice to add another locking strip (in blue) to engage the T-handle shaft and secure the bottom center of glass for extra security.


T-HANDLE. There are choices in configuration of the handle itself. I'd like a low profile one that's less likely to snag things.

HINGES. I like the industrial, more durable steel on the right.

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Old 02-02-2018, 12:48 PM
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Weather-proofing and Glass Plan...

GLASS, HINGE AND LOCK PLAN:

GLASS WOULD LOOK LIKE THIS. PREFER A LOWER-PROFILE LOCK HANDLE THAT IS LESS LIKELY TO SNAG THINGS

WEATHER-PROOFING PLAN
:

Stick D-shaped / Bulb-type weather seal on cap lip.
Stick thinner D-Shaped /bulb-type weather seal on glass. This will land outside the one on cap lip.
Overlap on top of tailgate needs more engineering.


Examples of D-shaped / Bulb-Type Seals:



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