Hello Y.T... I'm at the end of my rope!

SO,
I have a 94' 22RE DLX 4x4. It's got 139K, and it runs like a top. Nothing wrong it with. except for one issue that I've been trying to diagnose since I bought the vehicle. I wish I could CC the threads I've read here over the last 2 years trying to get this fixed... but I can't recall them all, so here goes.

I live in Santa Cruz CA, and when I drove the truck home day 1 'over the hill' from the central valley, it got hot. not red-line, but hot. This prompted radiator inspection, though I knew I bought the truck with an OEM (2 Row?) Metal Tank Radiator that was shot. I mean broken veins, leaking, the works. I replaced it promptly with a Spectra 1 Row Plastic Tank (Foolish decision) and new thermostat. (Non OEM). This kept the heat down for a little while...

Then, the radiator springs a leak. I replaced it with a 3 Row CSF Metal Tank and an OEM Thermostat, hoping that this cooling problem would remedy itself... it hasn't. (I very certainly burped the mess out of the system and made sure the cooling system was flushed both times before reinstallation)

FURTHER SYMPTOMS:
1) When I turn on the heater, and the vehicle is warm, it spikes the heat all the way up to near red-line, then it drops down, sits for 1-2min at cold, then jumps up again. (Ya'll suggested in one thread or another that it was possible early HG failure with the Exhaust Gas pumping up the Cooling system, so I Exhaust Gas checked with a Block checker, but it came up fine)

2) Under Load (No weight in the car besides my 145LB self and 90lB gf), going over a mountain pass, it heats up HOT. Like, near red line, then drops as soon as the truck's load is decreased. I don;t push it really hard, since I'm not trying to blow a head gasket...

3) The engine Pings intensely under load. rattle-rattle-rattle. I spoke to a local 22RE specialist and an ASE cert. mechanic who both, in turn, assured me it was 'operating noise'.... now, my solution has been to just switch to 91 Octane fuel, but this noise doesn't stop... it has decreased, but not stopped.

FINAL WRAP-UP/SYNOPSIS:

I have had 2 22RE's, both NEVER ran this hot. Maybe heating up to the middle of this gauge, but NEVER cresting the middle. This one wants to touch the red, and often. Most strange is the heater issue, I had the 'back-flush the heater core' suggestion, but there's no reason to for me since A) it works well, and B) it doesn't gurgle or sound low on coolant.

I know not ALL HG failure is Exhaust leak into Coolant, but I feel that this might not be the issue. Has anyone else here experienced this similar issue?

I had a friend with a 86' 22RE take it to the desert last year, under weight, and experienced identical symptoms to this (heat spikes on hills under weight) and promptly blew his H.G.

Does ANYONE have a suggestion as to how I should remedy this problem? My truck is Expedition Ready, and I have big plans for this coming year... yet, not with this issue, since the desert would RUIN me.

PLEASE shine some light on this, or I'ma get me a 6BT Dodge and call it over! (And I really, truly, don't want to do that!)

:Fire2:

 

NOTE: I currently have the Celica 22RE 2-Barrel Thermostat to install on this vehicle, and have heard that it can help thwart heat... but this seems like a patch for a greater problem.

 

....Anyone out there with Demon Exorcism Experiences?

Purchased a New Aisin Water Pump today, installed some time in the next two weeks, along with Celica T-Stat. Updates to follow. Further, anyone have experiences on locating and replacing the Temp Sensor / Sending unit? I want to test this too, since this issue continues

 

You sure you want a 22RE for an expedition truck? Or is this "local" expeditions only?

Any chance you can get a laser temp gun to determine actual reading at several places? If this overheating is able to be mimicked with the truck parked, that may help determine where the cause is. Temp readings on the head, before/after t-stat, top/bottom of radiator, head/block ports, heater hose ports. Just a thought.

 

Rok,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to look into the Laser Temp Reader, since that's a suggestion worth following to completion.

As far as 22re-as-expedition-vehicle, I test drove a Cummins 12V yesterday and loved it, but the higher repair cost, the fact that 3% of all passenger cars are Diesels, and the higher operating cost offset the 3-fuel potential, the same MPG est., and the nearly tripled torque figure.

I think of the 22RE as a fairly straight forward Japanese engine, something with wide enough dispersion across the lower 49 that I'll be able to find parts for years to come, and with desireable enough MPG figures to keep the vehicle running even when gas becomes 5-6-7 dollars a gallon (It's 4.37 here in Santa Cruz for Premium)

Lastly, I'll be working more on the truck today. Updates to come.

 

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-issue-251766/

Saving this thread link here, since it seems similar.

 

when you replaced your thermostat did you replace it in the correct position? if its not in the correct position it will cuase the thermostat to stick, some thermostats are 180 degrees, 160, and some 140, they going with a cooler opening thermostat, with the syptoms you decribe it sounds like a sticky or malfunctioning thermostat

 

Well i am having this same problem, and will be watching. I actually took out my stat to see what happens. I stay pretty cool until i turn the a/c on and have some hills to climb. then i start overheating. My thoughts are that my cat is clogged not allowing good flow. I do have a new radiator 3 core and water pump. I am going to try throwing in some pipe i have laying around in where the cat is and see what happens.
Also if you have A/C clean the condensor, mine was so full of bug guts, road debris, and other stuff it took me about 30 minutes of hosing it out until things looked clean and i could see through it. to do this though, you'll need to take out your radiator and spray from engine compartment out. that way your not just spraying all the shiz back into the radiator.

 

Westjohns, yes I believe I put the T-Stat in Correctly (Slug Down towards Engine Block/Water-Pump) this was the setting It was when I removed it at first (Of course, this doesn't mean it's correct, but my FSM showed this as the correct placement)

Further, I replaced an Aftermarket (aisin?) OEM replacement with a TEQ Toyota OEM replacement when this problem didn't remedy itself earlier. Now, I'm going all out with the Celica T-Stat Mod (Here's the link: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...tml#Thermostat )

MotoX, Glad to be of service to you since we're in the trenches together. I'm not running A/C in my truck since it doesn't have it... but when I turn the Heater on to 'Red' or 'Hot' side, the truck spikes. The Above link describes 'temperature gauge overshoot' which seems to be corollated, but we'll see.

As of now (10:37AM PST) I'm waiting for the truck to cool down before I start diggin' into it. I had to go across town to pick up some Distilled water for the flush, and some new Peak Antifreeze. I'd have gone with Toyota Red, but for 3 gallons I'd be out about $90+/- ! WHOO! I suppose i could have bought it... but that'd be a little steep I think!

Pictures to come / Etc.

 

May want to do either a chemical test on the coolant to check for exhaust gas contamination (NAPA sells a test for for $20 or so), or do a cooling system pressure test. Put a pressure gauge on the radiator cap and watch for pressure to rise and fall with varying engine RPMs outside of what you would see from the temperature rise. I had a similar problem in my '85, root cause was a partly clogged radiator that did not allow enough flow at higher RPMs, so the engine would get hot at like 3500 RPM uphill but if I shifted to a higher gear and dropped the RPMs, the engine would cool down. But the problem was the mild overheating from the radiator led to a slight head warp that let exhaust gas blow into the coolant and that over pressured the cooling system and the coolant+gas bubbles did not cool as well and also blew coolant out the overflow.

 

4Crawler, Vaunted Elder of Y.T.! Welcome, and thanks for the Input! Did you have any result from a Chemical Test during this 'head-warping-experience?' I haven't checked the 'upshift-v-downshift' RPM correlation, but I'd assume it works. Usually I need to pull HWY 17 in 3rd Gear for the significant portions, and therein it gets hotter than 4th gear, which lags the speed down, but drops RPM. ... Makes sense to me. I just can't fathom the cause of this blockage for my truck... it seems like there's nothing left besides the water jacket itself to be 'clogged'.

I used the Chemical 'Block-Check' Combustion Gas Checker, it didn't detect anything in the coolant, besides coolant (fortunately!) and now I'm thinking Pressure Test. My Best Friend/Roommate works at Goodyear/Gemini, so I'll hit the up for the P-Test if I have to... but we'll take it one step at a time.

To date, I haven't stopped to get the feel on if the coolant is flowing often between the Rad and Outflow/Overflow Tank, I'll eye that today after reassembly. I do fear that there's some latent H.G. issue here... but I'm not going to give up on this 139K engine yet. I have a feeling it'll still last a little more!

Now, it's 11:55AM, and time to get the hands dirty before work at 4! Engine's gotta be cool enough now!

Today's goals:
1) T-Stat Replace
2) Water Pump Replace
3) Drain/Flush/Refill.
4)??????
5)Profit

 

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...e-cool-255326/

More food for thought, another S/C (Santa Cruz, not Super Charged, hah) Toyota Person with the SAME issue. I fear for this truck's H.G.-Blowing Potential.

NOTE:
This morning (8AM-11:30AM) and last night I replaced the Water Pump, and installed the Celica 2 Barrel T-Stat. Currently, the truck sits full of Distilled water and seems to have taken much less than the 8.9L of Capacity it says it has. (Took 7.58L, actually)...I'm going to take it for a drive, watch the needle, and report back.

Also, Re:the thread I posted earlier, some suggest EGR or Timing advances creating heat. I can't see how the latter could be affecting me, since I had the Valves Professionally adjusted recently... (Of course, not done by one's own hand is still and forever an unknown)... but the mechanic assured me of no significant issue, and no huge advances in timing.

More to come.

 

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...athroom-258260

Another Thread of symptoms I've had in conjunction with this heating demon. Seems I'm not the only one...

 

In my case I found it most helpful to characterize the exact conditions that led to the overheating and then work back from those to identify the cause. I got mine down to a certain outside temperature, a certain RPM range and a certain engine load that caused the problem. That all led back to a coolant flow issue related to the radiator. When I finally pulled out the old 2-row CSF (I think that was the brand) radiator and put in a new 3-row I could see that while the upper end looked clean, when I looked in the bottom of the unit, you could see some buildup on the coolant passages. But the big thing was in comparing the old to new rad. was the overall size of the coolant passages inside. In the old rad, it was like a flattened straw and the newer unit was much more open, more oval shaped. There is a tradeoff of passage size to cooling efficiency (basically surface area to volume comparison). But too restricted a passage and my guess is that the flow becomes turbulent beyond a certain speed. And in my case with the overheating only happening above a certain RPM, and with the water pump flow pretty much tied to engine RPM, then that is likely what I was seeing. And a new radiator and all the problems vanished, temperature gauge never moves off it's nominal position once it reaches operating temp.

This is not to say this is your problem cause, but shows the process to follow in going from the conditions that produce the overheating to the root cause of the problem.

 

UPDATE/EXCISION ONE:

The "It-Heats-Up-When-Heater-Is-On" Symptom GONE. Just Drove across town, Freeway/Stop-n'-Go/Around Town, and it couldn't spike at all. New Thermostat (ala 4Crawler) and/or New Water Pump excised this demon.

Of Course, this was running DISTILLED WATER during the drive across town, as opposed to my 'Peak Antifreeze', but i have faith that while (I've heard) distilled cools more effectively, the Antifreeze will do equally well when put in!

HOORAY, MANY THANKS, and KUDOS for Crushing Down Wickedness to 4Crawler, Abecedarian, MotoX711, and Vital22re (among many others) giving me insight and inspirdado!

NOW, to see if it spikes on my next trip over HWY 17... that'll be this Saturday Morning...

Perhaps I'll reward the truck with a GM 130A Alternator Upgrade.... hmmm

 

Continued Info:

I'll have time to post on the 'Over-The-Hill' operating temperature when I get back from The Valley this weekend. Currently, the truck drives nice and cool, but does have a bit of burping to be done still. (Jeeze the 22RE is so hard to burp, even with an inline Heater-Hose filler cap!)

I'll keep you updated, right now it's just slosh slosh slosh when I turn the heater on at first! Last time it got a bubble or two in there, it took all of 2 months to finally get it out!

 

Glad you got your issues sorted out!

I'm going to sort of hijack this with a somewhat related cooling system question....

I recently replaced my sending unit on my autometer sport comp set up since it was reading NOTHING -sender was totally corroded. I have the SR5 cluster too, so I can see the needle hanging out in the middle there, while I keep an eye on the REAL temp on my autometer gauge.



Normally, the gauge runs at 180*, sometimes creeping to 195*; usually it's at one or the other, but mostly at 180*, which seems great to me. However, the last few days, I've seen it creep up to over 200*, sometimes it has hit as high as the 235* mark on the gauge. The OEM dash gauge never goes higher than "middle".

I checked for leaks/steam/etc while this is going on (parked, idled), and NOTHING there. The t stat is OEM and a year old, as is the cap. Water pump is newer, less than 10K miles - I did the whole ENGNBLDR FEK install a couple years back.

Any ideas about why it's spiking and if it's THAT hot? It only lasts for a couple minutes then goes back to normal temps. This happens mostly with around town driving.

Thanks!

 

Philbert,

Sorry, I can't really say on the topic of the heating issue you're having. Check the sender unit? I saw something on that... maybe it was pirate 4x... i cant remember where...

FINAL UPDATE;

DEMON EXCISED COMPLETELY! Took the truck up into the mountains and over the hill, and no heat what-so-ever. Thanks all for the 411!