mountaingoat

OK, it's time to plan a rebuild. First, a little back history:

The truck: 1990 extended cab, 22R-E 4X4 5-speed. It currently has 235k miles on it, I'm the 3rd owner and have put the last 36k on it. I've maintained it well, and the previous owners were very meticulous as well, so I am confident that it was not too badly abused. Burns about 1.5 quarts of oil in 3k miles.

Me: Above average mechanical chops, I have a used motorcycle parts biz and spend most days turning wrenches. Not a master mechanic, but I'm not afraid of diving into a project either. Have a great shop to work in as well, and some spare time. I'm not in a great cash position however, and while money can be saved up less is more in my case.

Why the rebuild:

Truck needed a head gasket and timing set when I bought it, which I did myself using Engnbldr parts. No real problems, the head was mildly warped so I had it shaved (I don't recall exactly how much, unfortunately.)

Ran fine for the next 20k, but then started over-pressurizing the cooling system, causing coolant loss out the radiator cap after sustained climbs. Rad cap was replaced, as well as the fan clutch to no avail - which was when I noticed that there was coolant leaking down the block under the exhaust manifold. BHG again...awesome. Maybe I screwed something up on the first go-around. The oil is still free of coolant, but exhaust appears to be leaking into the water jacket, evidently causing the overpressure condition. Coolant is dark colored as well.

I'm leaning toward a somewhat deeper rebuild rather than just replacing the HG again, but would love some enlightened argument on the subject. Here's the options I'm seeing now:

1. Just replace the HG, and maybe slap a cam in there at the same time.

Pluses: quick and relatively cheap, can probably do it in a weekend plus a little time to have the head checked for warp, and planed again if necessary.

Minuses: The rig does have 235k on it, and although I'm not hearing any noise from the bottom end I'm a little leery of it (had a buddy punch a rod through his block at 270k with no apparent warning).

2. Do an in-truck rebuild. Rings, pistons, light hone on the cylinders, rod & main bearings and seals, HG and related, and cam if I can swing it. From what I've read this is possible and relatively easy.

Pluses: less labor-intensive than some options, should refresh the bottom end enough to go another 100k...I hope?

Minuses: Dropping the oil pan, reputedly a pain in the ass on an IFS truck. Not having a machine shop check out the block. More spendy than option 1.

3a: Pull the motor, do the d@mn thing right. Full rebuild, take it to a local machine shop with a good rep and have them check it out and tell me what all I need. Put it back together, paint it all pretty, and have an underpowered pig of a motor to be proud of.

Pluses: Peace of mind from having someone who knows more than I do look the block and crank over and do any necessary machine work. Since the motor doesn't seem to have any nasty sounds coming from the bottom end, I don't think it'll need much...maybe. With any luck, this would be the last heavy motor work I need to do to it for quite a while.

Minuses: Time and cost. I have no idea what I'm looking at in machine work. Even $500 could put this off for a couple more months, which has me pushing winter and would make being truckless very inconvenient.

3b: Same as 3a, but rebuilding a spare 22RE motor that a buddy has offered me.

Pluses: less downtime without a truck, keep driving it till the new motor is built and then swap it out in a weekend.

Minuses: The spare 22RE had a nasty knock in the bottom end, and 286k on it. Is this anything to worry about given that I'd be doing rod and main bearings anyway?

Ok, so there it is. I'd love to hear some opinions on what y'all would do, and why. And if you have better ideas, would be great to hear that as well.

Many thanks!

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

my vote? Pull the motor and do it right. You'll get another 100,000 miles out before you have to do the t-chain again. Another theory is you most likely have a cracked head and that's how the coolant is leaking. I would build the spare and take your time. The knock is not an issue if you're rebuilding the internals such as crank pistons rods. New parts no knock right? so ftw 3b is the best option.

iamsuperbleeder

if 3b isn't going to cost that much more than 3a, then I'd go with 3b

reason?

Pluses:

1) You make an excellent point about the down time, ESPECIALLY if this is your daily driver. That alone, knowing that you're not rushing to get the motor together, will help you put it together right, because you're not rushing to get this and that done. The more rushing you do, the more mistakes you will make; it's a proven fact. If you've got the time to go through each and every thing and pay each process of the rebuild a good amount of attention, you'll know you've done the hole thing right. This is of course assuming that the truck right now is in good enough condition to drive around for a week or two while you do the rebuild.

2) When you're done, you'll have the old motor left over, and you can either rebuild it up and resell it, or just keep it as a spare ya never know. OR, use it as kinda of a side project, and just put money into it when ever you get spare cash, and make it a mean turbo charged or stroker 22re or something

Minuses:

You've got to buy that other motor, which will add to your rebuild charges



When I was doing my rebuild, if I could have found a complete motor to rebuild instead of yanking my old one out, that's definately what I would have done. I looked, and looked, and looked, and I simply REFUSED to pay the $1000 some places were asking for a 22re that had 150k on it... so in the end I had no choice but to yank the motor out and do a full rebuild... and that had my truck down for over 3 months...

SoCal4Running

I did option 2 many years ago on my 4runner and tomorrow the engine is going to the shop for option 3A

It is a HUGE PITA to remove the IFS so yo can get the oil pan off and then you gotta torque the mains on your back and mess around with plastiguage upside down BUT the motor ran for another 6 years and relatively trouble free.

This time it is going to a shop for professional rebuild including all the machine work that I skipped before. I did find another running 22re locally for $200.00 and considered putting it in for the time being but am just going to deal with having the Runner down for a week.

mountaingoat

Good advice, I think. And actually, the other motor won't end up costing me anything - my buddy is willing to let me have it in exchange for my old block when I swap it out.

So assuming I do option 3b (which is sounding like the best at this point), what words of wisdom would you have WRT machine work? What's essential, what optional? Of course I'll talk to the guys at the shop about this, but I'm curious to hear opinions from folks that've been there, done that.

Good point, and I hadn't actually considered that. Would sure make me feel better about my previous HG job...really didn't think I had FUBAR'd it at the time.

Sounds like option b is a shortcut that's more of a pain than it's worth. I guess for the time and money that I'm putting into this sucker, I might as well not cut too many corners. Besides, if I do it with the motor out I can paint it purty colors!

pruney81

I would probably just put a new Toyota head gasket in there and new timing components, unless you think the oil you are burning is from the rings in which case that would be dumb.

If you think the head gasket is the culprit then maybe buy a new head from engnbldr and put in a Toyota head gasket and his timing parts and ride it out.
It's really up to you in the end, you could pull the motor or maybe you get away with a new head and timing set, you never know.

You did say you're burning a lot of oil but that could just be the valve seals which would be alleviated with a new head or even just new seals which is much less work than pulling a motor. That's just my 2 cents.

PismoJoe

I started my teardown with hope that I was just doing the top end, got in there and things looked pretty rough (cylinder walls, etc) 230k on it, my rear main was starting to leak, turns out 1 rod was way out of spec. Glad I spent $400 more and went all the way

PismoJoe

My block was really badly corroded on the deck. Check my build thread of the initial sight of removing the head after a blown HG. Pretty ugly stuff, but you might be lucky. Start tearin her down and go from there

hilandfrog

Option B all the way

I had a complete second motor as I was rebuilding the one for the truck, both came in the back of said truck.

There were times it was nice to look at a physical engine rather than pics while putting the other back together.

Also gave me extra parts in the way of TPS, knock, oil, temp sensors, and let us not forget the occasional lost/ damaged nut or bolt that was handy to have around.

I'm a dumb guy and did a full rebuild, I could not see the savings in doing 1/2 the job??

Best of luck, too much great info on this site, I'd start bookmarking stuff in a file as you see things that will help YOU.

Repo

B. Graves

how bout one of these? http://www.toyotacatalog.net/M1WebGe...ss=1420&Page=1


haha, j/k. if it were me, id go 3b. you wont have any engine problems then for a long time (hopefully anyway).

iamsuperbleeder

that's always an option



I ACTUALLY considered that before my rebuild... had I have done that, I'd probably still have the truck and never sold it

mountaingoat

Heh, those are dead sexy. Someday, maybe in another 200k...

I reckon it's option 3b for me. Time to rustle up an engine stand and start tearing the sucker apart.

Hey hilandfrog, aren't you on ADV?

SoCal4Running

Yea, both my stand and my hoist have been at my friends house for over 9 YEARS! I went over to disassemble the hoist (its a military hoist and weights about 400lbs) and saw that the engine stand was holding a Caddy 472 that was well packed away in the back of the garage so needless to say I found a better one on CL for $50.00

I believe that doing a full rebuild including machining is the right choice, it just dont make sense to have the motor that far down and not do it. I just got back from dropping my motor off at the shop and found out that they have been in business since 1972 so I'm sure they are legit.