bryy

Hey all on my 22re pickup I am trying to figure out a lean miss and knocking under load probably from being lean. And I have done most things under the sun at the point.

I have replaced the fuel filter with a OEM one ( are these directional?)

Today Just randomly I took pliers and clampped the return hose to the gas tank shut right there by the gas flow control thing on the fuel rail.

When I did that my idle went up and it seemed to really smooth out. What im asking is would this happen under conditions where everything was working good already? or does this mean I have a bad pump?

Thank you

scope103

No it doesn't mean a bad pump. If your pump wasn't putting out enough flow (or pressure), there would be no flow in the return line, and your clamping it would do nothing.

All you did was squeeze up the pressure in the rail, so that the injectors shot in a little more fuel each time, pushing the mixture away from 'too lean' towards 'too rich.'

So, at least at idle, you might be too lean. Most likely cause is a vacuum leak. A propane torch (unlit) will cause the idle to run up when pointing at the leak. Same thing with starting fluid or carburetor cleaner, just less messy.

Yes, the fuel filters are directional. I don't know much about the 22re though (the filter is much more easily accessible for you.)

bryy

I have been looking for vacuum leaks with carb cleaner, I'm positive I have everything hooked up correctly vacuum wise. And I can't seem to find a leak.

Punchy

Possible.
Bad O2 sensor.
Red VSV is hooked up wrong, Keeping the FPR open all the time.
Make sure the AFM is opening and closing freely and there are no air leaks between it and the TB.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

I take the hose off of the fuel rail that connects to the return line and put it into a container, with it running or the pump relay jumpered, it will fill a quart jar in about 2 minutes. That tells me if there is plenty of fuel flowing. That is what works for me.

Depending on which brand of fuel filter you are using, one will have an "Arrow" showing fuel flow and the others have "In" or "Out" on the ends of the filter. I see alot of filters installed wrong on these trucks.

With the arrow pointing to the firewall, You want to take the fuel line coming from the tank and hook it to the end of the filter that is closest to the core support that is the flow coming IN . The end of the filter that is closest to the fire wall is the Out and goes up to your fuel rail.

With the filters that have In and Out marked on the ends of the filter, You want In closest to the core support and Out closest to the firewall.

Starting at the fuel rail and following the fuel line thru the filter and to the next fuel line, you should have an "S" shape of the fuel line flow.

You didnt say what year 22re you have. The 85-87 have a poor injector connector design. If this is the year you have, try gently lifting and pushing down on the connectors with a pair of needle nose and see if that causes any changes in idle. I have seen a miss caused by them not getting a good connection. If you need to replace a connector you will need the EV1 style and I get mine from www.connectorsfast.com for the 85-87 style.

Since the mis fire is on the fuel side as you are suspecting, other areas to check is dirty injectors. I have seen some nasty fuel systems and junk can get into the screens of the injectors. May need to pull them and give a good cleaning. https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...l#post52188740 Flush out the screens with a carb cleaner or they are easily removed for better cleaning.

The section of the injector harness in between the Plenum and the Inner Fender has some poorly designed crimps in it. Uncover it and you will see some tape covering the crimps.

I remove the crimps and solder the wires together then heat shrink and re wrap. You will have one yellow wire that is crimped to two other yellow wires that go to 2 injectors. The same with a blue wire, it will do the same as the yellow wire. Closer to the inner fender you will have 2 white wires crimped to 4 white wires (your grounds) and they can be deteriated. Also make sure your ground on the intake manifold is in good shape, cleaned and making good contact. It is the back bolt on the side.

bryy

Awsome post and tech terrys87, I really do appreciate it.
I will certainly get right on those things.

I did replace the filter with an OEM one back in November during the rebuild, during that time I also sent the injectors to witch hunter and got them flow tested and cleaned.

I put new plugs and wires in the truck during the rebuild in November OEM
Last week just for the hell of it I put in new OEM plugs. Here is the picture of my old plugs

My question is, It kind of looks like all the cylinders are running lean?
I have ohm'd my AFM, and TPS and they check out. I started to check the ECM temp sensor and with heat the ohm's would go down.
I checked to make sure the signals were reaching the ECU pins and they are.
I re-did the grounds from the body-motor mount, and body-head, and battery-body

By the way I just realized I posted in the wrong section It is an 1985 22re but should be similar to the 86 if not identical?

bryy

Oh and because it will probably be asked next. I just replaced the o2 sonsor with a Denso unit direct fit. I checked continuity from the o2 sensor plug to the ECU and the wire is not broken but How would I go about making sure the o2 sensor is working?

bryy

One more question that just popped into my head. When the ecu recognizes the motor is cold and fires the cold start injector how long does the cold start spray fuel? Seconds, minutes, or until the engine is warm?

scope103

The answers to all questions are found in the Good Book. http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...01heatedox.pdf The test calls for a needle-type voltmeter, but you'll need an antique store to find one. Most modern digital meters will react fast enough; all you want to see is the "flop" 8 times in 10 seconds.

The cold start injector only opens during the time the key in in STA [start]. If you continue to crank for more than a second or two (depending on temperature), the Cold Start Timer shuts off the CSI to prevent flooding.

If you're worried about the CSI it's easy to check; just unplug the electrical connector and see if that makes a difference.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

From left to right, I think number two plug has something on it and I wouldnt be too worried about it. Could be the motor just breaking in until the rings seated other then that the plugs look fine to me. I think you will be alright on that.

Like scope103 mentioned, they are getting hard to find. If you can find one grab it. I been needing one and just now thought of ebay. Think I will give that a try.

I have never had a Cold Start Injector to fail. What I have had to fail is the Cold Start Injector Timing Switch to fail. Sometimes it just needed a good cleaning to get the hard water build up off of the sensor. Other times it just was completely bad. It will fail a resistance check quick if you test it. You wont have any problems until winter time and it is cold and the truck wont start. You will see several post when cooler temps come and their trucks are working fine til the weather cools.

It is the Brown Sensor just under and forward of the thermostat housing. I have Haynes, Chilton and a Factory Service Manual. The Haynes is easiest to get and one I use most. On Haynes 4-10 it shows how to test the Timing Switch. Dont get a Chilton Manual and FSMs are nice for deeper troubleshooting.

Some 85s have a Starter Relay (automatic trannys I think) and some dont or may have been a later half of the year they changed to using starter relays. Toyota did change a few plugs on the wiring. For example an 85 wiper motor has the starter relay plug on it and 86 and newer has a square plug. Other then that there isnt much difference in between the two years. I have both and that has been the only real differences that I have seen. You can use 86 literature for the 85s.

scope103

Uh, I was serious about analog multimeters being "antiques." I wouldn't even waste the $26
Unless, of course, you ARE seriously into antiques. Then I would consider

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Scope103..I got a good laugh out of that. That was funny. The reason I was considering an older meter that is analogue is that I am hoping that I might work for sensing signals. I tried a meter to see if I could get a sweep movement while trying to see if an O2 sensor was working correctly. I do have a cheap meter and that may be a problem why I was not getting any sweeping movements. The older ones you have to set to correct scales and was thinking with the finer settings it might give you more control in readings.

I tried to use a LED to see if I could get any flickers on it as well to see if the computer was sending any signals. The 87 and older trucks are a single wire O2 sensor that sits in the exhaust manifold in a 22re. I tried it on my truck which I know is good and working as well as another truck that I was suspecting the O2 sensor is bad on. I could not get a reading on either one. With it being a single wire, there isn't much that I could really do wrong to not get a correct reading with the LED or a meter. I know the LED is polarity sensitive but even that would not work for me and why I thought the older meter might work.

On the 88 and newer trucks they have a 4 wire O2 sensor and had an issue one time of it not heating up to specs if I recall right. I am looking for a way to see if a O2 sensor or any other component is getting a signal.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

brry...Something else I just thought of and wanted to mention. It is something that I have over looked in the past and was poor thinking on my part, but several other cars I have worked on in the past have fuel filters on the frame or other safe areas and never disconnect the battery in the past. That is poor mechanic work on my part, but sure others have done it as well.

I have changed a lot of fuel filters on 22res. The filter sits just above the starter and the starter has a battery wire that is hot at all times. When you remove the fuel lines from the filter, you are going to lose a few ounces of fuel, and there is a good chance the fuel can get in contact with the battery cable at the starter. Several times I have done it and nothing ever happened, but wasn't to long ago, I did it and I heard the gas sizzle. It didn't catch fire or anything but very well could of. Luckily I was doing it in the cold and that is what kept the gas from igniting.

Always disconnect the battery, especially on 22res. Use new brass crush washers, and double check for leaks when changing the filters.

Another good idea is have a fire extinguisher readily available and know the different classes of fire. There are 4 classes of fires, but only 3 you need to know, A, B, and C.

InToxicOne

Ive had a similar issue. I tried like hell to figure out why the truck would pop and stutter. Went as far as to replace the entire cylinder head (was going to anyways for a performance set up) and still had it. Replaced my fuel pump/filters (also for performance ones) and all that good stuff. I replaced a lot on this truck but you know what it was? The cold fire injector itself had an air leak... So I buy a new one thinking it would fix it right? Wrong! Brand new one out of the box had an air leak too. Might want to check that cold start injector for air leaks. My issue might not be yours though.

scope103

The voltage you're looking for is around 0.6 to 1.0v. So unless your analog meter has a 3v scale or finer, you'll probably miss it. And that sensitive range is pretty rare on an unpowered analog meter. (and you're not even old enough to know what a VTVM is)

Nope, that's not going to work. How much voltage does an LED take to light up at all? (Forward voltage drop) http://www.oksolar.com/led/led_color_chart.htm So even if you get the polarity right, the LED won't light.

Note that later vehicles have a "conditioned" Ox1 signal that swings from 0 to 5v in time with the sensor. That you can measure with an LED (in fact it's the best way --- use an LED with an internal resistor, Radio Shack has 'em)

RJR

The other problem with directly measuring an O2 sensor is that it has a very high internal source impedance, around a Megohm. Which means, basically, that it can't supply enough current to drive most cheap analog voltmeters and certainly not an LED (even if the voltage was high enough).

To measure an O2 sensor directly you need a digital or analog meter with 10Megohm input impedance or greater. Most digital multimeters will have that, but it takes a truly antique VTVM (vacuum tube volt meter) or transistorized equivalent to get that in analog form. Don't waste your money on the cheap analog meters from Amazon - they won't work for this application.

The conditioned O2 sensor signal can be measured much more easily, as scope103 has stated. If your diag port provides that capability, that's the best way to monitor what the O2 sensor is doing. A cheap analog meter or an LED will work for this.