Can anyone offer a take on the value of ARP head studs?

I've read that I can torque ARPs down to 80ft-lbs vs 64ft-lbs from EB's 10.9 head bolts vs 58ft-lbs stock.

I know that more torque helps create a better seal with the head gasket, but I'm really debating if the extra 16ft-lbs is worth the extra $100usd of the ARPs over EB's stuff. I don't plan on running huge boost, but I still like the added "security" of extra torque. I have no issues spending the extra money for the ARP's, but like anything if I'm going to spend the money I don't want it to be wasted.

 

My first guess would be to save your money.

The reason being that 16ft-lbs is really going to be a wash when you are talking about the actual tension seen in your head bolts. The reason has to due with the friction factor between the bolt and parent material. The higher the friction, the lower the actual clamping or tension force and vice versa. Since the friction can vary quite substantially between threaded holes and bolts, you can easily get enough variance to negate any benefit from a stronger/higher rated bolt.

Put a drop of 30w on your threads and torque em accordingly. That will help aleviate the friction problem. I know it sounds like it will let them come loose easier but that isn't the case. Preload is what keeps em from coming loose.

Buy the ones that are a little stronger if your worried about clamping force but not the $100 bolts. That is unless your building some sort of race engine with loads of compression.....

Just my two cents.

 

haha "loads of compression", yeah mabey 8.0:1...monster! I do plan on pumping mabey 15lbs of boost into it though (mabey 10-12 on a regular basis)

 

That's all well and good and true when comparing apples to apples (or bolts to bolts) but since the ARP's are studs, the argument loses a bit of ground. I prefer studs hands down to bolts in almost every application, especially when mounting a head to a block.

 

well i tourqued my stock ones down to 80 after my head job but thats just what the book said so i followed it

 

You might ask Ted (engnbldr) himself. The stock bolts are made to strech a certain amount, which is why there is a specific torque setting for them. Once streched, they don't strech the same amount again. That's why you'll see recommendations that you shouldn't reuse them.


If you're going to a turbo application, one of the typical flaws of the 22R series is the head gasket. We've got big ole' fat cylinders, each developing a lot of pressure, especially under boost... It takes me about 8 hours to do a head gasket. Decide if you want to save $80 now and risk 8 hours of labor and a new gasket in the future... I don't think there is anyone that would recommend head bolts for an aftermarket turbo application.

Bill, at this point I *highly* recommend an MLS (cosmetic) head gasket also. I used Ted's rock gasket and ARPs. It's lifespan was very short under conditions of detonation (due to boost creep). It's not a bad part, but if when you're tuning, sometimes you're a bit abusive on the motor.. Hopefully the MLS gasket will work better. The other *big* plus is that it's reusable.

RockAuto Gasket, after a few runs hitting detonation:

 

Darin, do you know of any good places to go to get that type of headgasket, or should I just check with some local shops?

Like I said, I don't mind spending the extra bucks, but I've been hard pressed to actualy find specific bolts vs studs arguments, hence why I ask.

 

Cometic is the brand. It's pretty common. Most speed shops should carry it.
The best price I can find online is at: http://www.importperformanceparts.net - The one I ordered from them didn't show up, however - they messed up the shipping, so use your own judgement.

DOA racing carries it. The one that's in my truck now came from Tim.

I believe LC engineering also stocks them - I think they call them their "pro" head gasket.

For questions on the bolts vs studs issue, just email Ted.. He'll set you straight.

 

Well, even Ted at EB has said to use ARP's

Yikes that guy is fast to reply to email...under 20min and I had a responce. That's what customer service should be!

 

I dont know about yall, but I had to torque my EPN 10.9s down to 85ftlbs to get them fully torqued... That was with EPN lube on the threads and gear oil on the bolt heads and washers. I however have a 3vze not a 22re/rte.


having said that BUY THE ARPs!!! Studs >>>> bolts without any doubt!! The reason studs are unequivically SUPERIOR to bolts is that you arent having to twist the whole shaft to gain more torque. Instead only a nut. As such the headbolt not only must provide all clamping force, but must also resist the torsional forces required to torque it which can severely weaken it. this doesnt occur with studs. Those "15ftlbs" adds significantly more clamping force than headbolts!

 

you also have a 3.0, I'm talking 22RTE

 

boosted - even more reason for the studs.

 

Torque process on the 3.0 and the 22RE-series are totally different.. Apples/oranges.

 

A little off the subject, but I have a set of brand new ARP studs for a 5VZ-FE that someone can buy if they need them. Make me an offer.

 

sorry I thought he had a 3vze, but headstuds are superior to headbolts as far as uniformity of clamping force, at least thats my understanding anyhoo...

dan will those headstuds fit a 3vze block?

 

I doubt it steve, or else someone would have done it already....
oh yeah, if you're boosted and plan on running more than stock boost, ARP definately!!!
and how much for teh studs dan? (getting parts for a 3.4 hehe)

 

so who actually sells these ARP studs. i looked at the ARP website and they didnt even list them..........thanks, JJ

 

Jegs.com sells them.

 

I use the studs- the tech sheet said 90ft-lbs, arp tech said 80 ft-lbs, so the final torque was 85ft-lbs. They supply a moly grease- not oil. They are a better system- I'm n/a so way overkill for me, but I'm a fan of studs for bottom and top end. Definitely tougher to get than sbc studs. MLS gaskets require a different finish on the block and head.