TinMan

Another problem started yestarday. I was backing out of the driveway in the morning. Heard a loud matalic click from the rear pass side. once out of the drive and truck going straight down the road. I noticed the steering wheel was pointing to the left, top of the horn button was pointing at about 10 oclock. It was straight before. Then at the end of the street, I started on the brakes and notices the front pull to the right, but seemed like the rear kept going straight. the harder you hit the brakes the harder it pulls to the right. Weird thing is the rear seeming to keep going in a straight line. Goes down the road pretty straight. I can let off the wheel with out much problems.

The only change prior to this was the night before I removed the torque rod, and rotated the front axle up just a little bit to get a better pinion angle. 2" OME lift springs. It seemed like it could use it. Pinion angle is straight from the pinion to the transfer now.

I checked the distance from axle center front of the rear tires, to axle center rear of the front tires, they are within an 1/8" of each other. Checked the square of the tires and they seem to be within 3/16" of each other. I lifted and Loosen up the rear axle to see if I could get it to move closer into square, no joy.

I checked the square of the front end it seems to be sitting 1/2" out to the right. Checked from the frame to the rotors. I can not get it come to the left any more. droped the front axle till the springs were totally relaxed, loosened the u bolts, and put a ratchet strap from the drivers frame to the pass side, pulled it over the 1/2" it needed, when I released the strap it went right back to were it was. I dont know if this is a normal messurement or not. From the front of the frame to the axle on each side is within 1/16 of each other.

Brakes are new with turned rotors just 1000 miles ago. and they seem to operating fine.

I checked the spring mounts and none of the welds seem to be broken. But I will take a pry bar to every thing tonight and see if anything moves.

Any ideas.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Well, I would back out your last two changes and see if the problems go away. Why? Torque rod function is to prevent pulling in the steering while braking (assuming you still have stock push-pull steering). It does that by limiting the tendency of the front axle to roll forward under braking loads and pushing into the steering drag link. And forget pinion angle on the front end. Why? It's counterpart is caster angle and less pinion angle (good) equals less caster angle (bad). And given the choice of being able to steer (caster angle) vs. having a smoother running front driveshaft (pinion angle), I would usually choose steering:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/Shims.shtml#FAQ1

Also, changing the pinion angle via rotating the axle with shims will cause a change in the steering wheel centering for the same reason as the pull when braking. You roll the axle forward, that pushes the steering J-arm forward and pushes that into the drag link which connects to the steering box via the pitman arm. That will cause the steering wheel to have to be turned slightly to keep the wheels pointed straight ahead.

TinMan

Great explanation. I came home at lunch today and put the torque rod back in. Not a real easy job on this one. one of the mounts has to be bent a little. I think it is the front frame mount. And I did not spend a lot time making sure it was perfect. But it brought the steering wheel back to almost center, and almost completely stopped the pull to the right while braking. Still just a little under hard breaking. I will take it all apart tomorrow night and make sure it is all adjusted properly.

Thanks for the indepth reply. Good leason for me. Just glad it has only cost a few hours of labor.

Schmeal Hawk

I'm having a similar problem (to the left) but my caster angles are good as well as my torque rod is in place. I think I have a leak or some other braking issue. Started noticing I have to top her brake fluid off every once in a while. Makes for fun driving when I have to do a hard stop and crank the wheel to the right to stay moving straight. Oh !!!

JG129

I just put new calipers on mine (major leaking) and it's pulling to the right. Stock suspension. I work at a dealership and a technician told me it's probably the brake lines.

I hoping to do a OME lift soon, so I didn't bother with replacing them yet.

desertcamper67

I have the stock steering and no torque rod and it always brakes straight and even. I take that back I do have a dropped drag link and used to run a dropped torque rod on another 4runner. After rotating your axle I wouldn't expect the torque rod to just line up anymore. And that difference is the same as in your steering after the rotation of the axle.
Your brake pull could be a bad brake hose up front.

TinMan

After loosing the axle and putting the torque rod back real quick that day it almost took complete care of the steering/braking problems.

The other night I decided to measure everything and make sure it is done right.

The FSM says caster sould be 3* +or- 1* "unloaded". I dont know what unloaded means. i.e. steering straight? axle at full drop? Full weight of the vehicle on the springs? unbolts losened? Also not a real good explanation of were to take the angle from.

I loosened up the ubolts took the bump stop off the top of the leafs and put an angle finder on top of the springs, but over top of the spring perches. it was right at 3* but in that state the spring perches were rotated down about 2* from the springs. So I ended up putting the angle finder on a piece of plate, and put it on top of the knuckle studs. With the axle loose, the kuckles were rotated toward the rear about 7*.

I rotated the axle up until it was sitting on the springs square and in full contact. Put the torque rod in, that torque rod does not fit right no matter what you do to it, something is bent, and tightened up the ubolts to spec. Checked caster with the angle finder on the knuckle studs, and it is 3* drivers side, and 4* pass side. Steering wheel is total straight, no pulling going down the road, and no pulling when braking.

It has started to vibrate when I hit the brakes, but only under hard braking. it did not do this before. It could be a break line. they are the origionals. And I have stressed them pretty good a few times with all this. It could also be a tire out of balance, they have not been balance since I've had it.

Thanks for all the input. I'll get the vibration figured out. I need to order new brake lines from wabfab. just got to build up $$ for a little while. It's not so bad that I cant live with it for a little while. Thats ok lots of other projects going on around

later

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

I have some "spring perch" caster angle "alignment" numbers below:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/Shims.shtml#FAQ1

Measuring real caster angle is somewhat tricky, you can take it to an alignment shop to do that right. But I find around 6 degrees of slope on the spring perch gives a decent caster angle, and this is at normal static ride height.

TinMan

Thanks 4crawler, I will take it in to the alignment shop this week and get them to check it. Since there is not much adjustable on these things they only charged $20.00 last time to give me a print out. From there I will order some wedges from you if needed. When you measure your 6* spring perch angle, are you placing the angle finder on the top of the springs, or holding it up against the side of the springs with it aligned to the top of the perches? Also are you doing it with everything tightened down? or is this before you put the springs in? Thanks

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

I put the angle finder on a surface parallel to the perch, since I have had springs and everything on the truck for years now. Just measured in ready-to-drive condition, truck parked in the driveway.

And this is the only way you can really measure things, as the only caster angle measurement that makes any difference while driving is the caster angle that is in effect while driving. Measuring with the suspension at full droop or with the springs off or leeose or anything other than what you expect to be driving down the road is an interesting number but that is it.

TinMan

Thanks, some things I just need broke down barny style. I'll let you know soon if I need some shims.