Bruinpilot

Thanks to all with the good ideas for that beast of a vacuum fitting. I finally got that thing off and luckily didn't warp or manage to harm the manifold while I was at it...

Kawazx636, I noticed that you also pulled off the charcoal canisters and haven't had any problems. I was just wondering if there is a chance of any problems with this? I was originally intending to leave my canisters, but today I came home and my garage reeked of gasoline. I opened the gas cap and got the rush of air in... I figured it got hot here and gas got drawn through the canister and out one of the lines as I still have all the intake and fuel lines etc. disconnected. I was afraid that this type of problem would occur without the canister, but now I've had it with the canister, so I am now considering pulling it... Once that is removed, do you just run the fuel lines straight up to the pump?

Thanks again for the great info.

Smilemon, I too am going to try to keep the aisan, just because I am a cheapskate. Please keep us posted as to how that goes. Once I get started on my carb rebuild and get it back on the truck, I will try to share any info that I learn as well.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

Plowzilla, I had the exact same problem. I'm not sure if the manifold threads are tapered or not, but on my build ended up using a tap to chase the threads down and it turned out ok. On my friend's 22R, I actually muscled up and torqued them down. He has over 20,000 miles on that motor with no manifold leaks. I also use teflon tap on all those fittings and plugs. Use the pink stuff that is gas and solvent resistant. As for finding the right fittings, use whatever works - it sounds like you have figured it out. I sat down in the pipe fitting aisle at the hardware store for about a hour figuring it all out!

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

BruinPilot, a charcoal canister was originally a smog component. It stores fumes and cleans the air returning to gas tank. It also returns fumes back into the manifold to be burnt. There are a couple of things that you need to do in order to eliminate the canisters.

1) You need a vented gas cap to relieve the positive pressure that can build up in the tank from heat and expanding gases and to relieve the negative pressure that can build up from your fuel pump sucking fuel out of the tank.

2) Notice that you have 3 lines going to your fuel pump. One is the inlet, one is the outlet to the carb and one is the outlet for excess fuel. Just make sure that you route the excess line back to the tank. This will help negate the negative pressure caused by the "sucking" of the fuel from the tank.

Don't worry about the "Clean air" charcoal canister philosophy. Most canisters in our trucks haven't properly worked for decades. I ran my truck without canisters with no problems before I started my restoration. My friend has ran a desmogged 22R that I built without canisters for over 20,000 miles with no problems as well.

plowzilla

Ok, upon further review, the 1/8" that will be used on the intake for the brake and distributer are measured in BSPT, you know that british taper! That is why NPT fitting will not go in. I first drilled out the 1/8 28 BSPT threads with a 21/64th bit. The bit fit right in and didn't do much. Then I bought a 1/8, 27 thread tap (NPT), and re-threaded the hole. Now the 1/8 NPT fitting will go in fine. I am going to reuse the oem brake vacuum fitting, so that did not need to be re-drilled (obviously). I started to assemble the fuel regulator and gauge. The (2) 3/8th NPT to 1/4 barbs do not fit. Not sure, but I think a 3/8th MPT (if they make them), not NPT will fit. Dave, did you use reducer bushings on those as well? Its hard to tell from your photo.

jdfording

So I finally got my engine installed and running great. I hooked up all the fuel hoses and I used the exact same setup for the fuel pressure regulator as you did. the truck runs and drives but the fuel pressure gauge stays at 0 and I've turned the adjuster and nothing. Any suggestions?

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

Plowzilla, great input on the fittings! That should help folks a lot.

Jdfording, could be a bad gauge. I'd try swapping it out with another gauge before you check anything else. It's good to hear that it's running well! Post some pics when you get a chance

jdfording

Was a bad gauge. Working fine now.

Bruinpilot

Plowzilla, did you ever find anywhere to buy one of those bpst threaded British fittings. I am reusing the original fitting for the brake booster as well, but want to run the distributor advance to one of the holes that is plugged on my original stock setup. I just gently tried the npt fitting and it is definitely not a match... Who would have guessed the Japanese using British threads! I didn't even know that there were British threads...

plowzilla

No, I just bought a 1/8th NPT tap and re-threaded it. That worked well.

Bruinpilot

Just found out some interesting information that I thought should be shared here. I recently got in touch with lce in order to see if they had any bsp vacuum fittings. We got into a discussion as to why I wanted it and I explained that I wanted to connect the inner sub/idle vacuum advance to the intake manifold. He got me in touch with John in the tech department who explained to me that unless the line from the sub idle was routed through some sort of vsv that there was a chance that it would actually retard my spark at higher throttle settings. He wondered where I had gotten the idea and he wanted to take a look at this thread. He told me that the best actual solution is to just cap the sub idle advance port and connect the outer port to the vacuum source on the carburetor. Once I get my carburetor going I will post how it works out. So it looks like I just need one vacuum hose for the main advance and one for the brake booster...

Just wanted again to say to every one reading this that lce is totally legit. Every dealing that I have had with them has been super professional and they give great advice and sell great parts. They seem to honestly care about getting what is right for what your project is.

plowzilla

AHHH, I am new at all of this and I am trying to play along as I go. I am assuming you are referring to the 2 vacuums on the distributor. Which is the sub idle and which is the outer idle? Thanks

Bruinpilot

Plowzilla,

I am with you brother! I've never done a lot of auto work. I professionally work on far different equipment. Anyways the sub idle is the port closest to the block and the main advance is the fitting closest to the radiator.

Now into some more that I may or may not have learned... Again please take this with a grain of salt as I do not really know what the heck I am talking about here, I am just putting bits together what I have heard from various "experts" the last couple of days. The main advance, ie the port on the distributor closest the radiator, goes to the vacuum source on the carburetor and advances the spark as you open the throttle. Vacuum in the manifold actually drops as the throttle is opened, so I assume there is some sort of Venturi mechanism in the carb to apply vacuum to the diaphragm and advance your spark. Now for some murkier waters... I believe the sub idle advance to be largely unnecessary. I think it advances your spark to make cold starting easier. (Again, I am far from 100% sure on this.) The technical engineer I spoke with at lce told me that hooking it to the main vacuum manifold could actually cause spark retardation at higher rpms. I wish I had a schematic of this part of the system because I don't fully understand it. Here I am guessing at a vacuum pull supposed to be around the level of an engine start that it slightly advances spark, then retards it when normal idle vacuum levels are reached (again a total guess from my putting bits and pieces together). While the main port gets its vacuum from a source on the carb and progressively advances spark as throttle is opened.

Again, I am far from an expert and am grasping at straws a little here with out a good system schematic. (I only have a crappy Haynes manual and an outdated fsm for an earlier model truck. Not really the best of data. Good luck I will post how it works once I get my carb rebuilt, which is going to be its own fun task, as every one says to just get a weber. I like a challenge so i am going to try and rebuild the Aisin and if I fail, well that's not that bad, then I can get a weber. I hope my musings here help a little.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

Obviously, LCE is pretty knowledgeable when it comes to 22R engines; however, I had the Sub/Idle/Manifold port plugged and the Main/Normal/Carb port ran to my Weber and my truck wouldn't idle smoothly but ran perfect at higher RPMs. So I read around and was told that running the Sub/Idle/Manifold port to the manifold would help smooth the idle and prevent the engine from sputtering when returning to idle from high RPMs. I routed mine this way and I have a nice smooth idle and proper advance throughout the higher RPMs.

On the other hand, I have also read that some people can't get their trucks to run right using both ports and have better results with just one. I'm not sure of the anomalies here, but there must be something more to it.

My only concern with LCE's comments is where they said that it could retard the timing. I find it very hard to believe that two advancing mechanisms could retard the timing unless he meant that it retards the advancement - meaning that the main advance may advance to let's say 25* but the idle advance limits it to let's say 15* causing it to be "retarded" from where it should be. So having that VSV may switch from the Sub advance to the main advance once there is enough vacuum on the main advance and without it you may be stuck with the Sub advance limits at high RPMs causing late spark. Know what I'm saying??

Bruinpilot

Kawazx636,

I totally understand what you are saying. It makes more sense to me actually than what lce said, but I have such little knowledge on the subject, far be it from me to argue it either way. It sounds like something that I will have to play with... But this is a good discussion about it anyways. I appreciate your expertise on this. I will post my experiences and how it works for me. I will start with the sub idle plugged though just because I am lazy and it is easier!

Bingle

I would check it out for yourself. Use a delay type timing light and check what you're getting. You should be at 30-34° at 2000rpm and see if it dips when you go to 3000 or something. Just my thoughts. I always had the single diaphram advance and now I'm running a strictly mech advance so it's really just my opinion.

Smilemon

I'm having a bear of a time getting my fuel lines worked out. I can't seem to get any fuel to flow. I've changed the filter by the tank, and I have the inlet line and return line hooked up, and the third "vent" line plugged off. Still can't get anything moving. The truck runs if I pour gas in the carb, but it won't pull anything and stay running.

The pump seems to work, because I can run it into a bottle of fuel and it will suck.

Is there a trick to priming the lines?

plowzilla

Bruinpilot, I am under the assumption that your using the stock carburetor. Do you think think this could happen with a Weber as well?

Bruinpilot

I would say yes. The spark advance is a function of the vacuum spark advance unit connected to your distributor. I believe there are some distributors that have no advance and others, if you see the prior post are done mechanically. If you have the stock one like I do, it is done by vacuum. Your weber carb should still have a vacuum source port on it (I think not 100% sure). Hope that helps...

plowzilla

Hey, The Weber does have the one vacuum. Anyway, I finally finished everything on the desmog. I started it and did my adjustment on the carb, then went to adjust the timing. I cannot seem to get it near the 5*btdc. Do you know if both of the vac lines on the distributer have to be removed and plugged, or just the vac advance?

Bruinpilot

You should be able to time it with both either or none of the lines connected. Just make sure your idle speed is correct. (I can't remember what it is exactly off the top of my head. I think 700 for a stick shift and maybe around 900 for an auto.). The vacuum advance should only have an effect at higher rpms. Once you get it timed, let us know how you've done the final setup and how it is working. I still have I rebuild my carb before I can try it out and wih my work schedule that will probably still be at least a couple of weeks...