Danson

Bought an 86 4Runner, ran okay on startup but would die after a couple minutes of idling. Ran fine at speed and drove it 70 miles home at highway speeds without a hitch, it would just die at stoplights but start right back up.

Gave it new plugs, and it has a reman motor with less than 100k miles on it. Distributor looks brand new with new wires. TPS tested fine, runs the same no matter the AFM used (currently has the Supra AFM installed). I could get it to stop dying by messing with the AFM spring on the original AFM, which had already been opened and messed with, but I had to REALLY loosen it and I know that’s not the way.

Replaced EGR valve. Tried blocking it off. Tried looping vac hoses instead of running to EGR or power steering, no change. It’s missing VSVs but without an AC belt or EGR that shouldn’t matter much, FPR is going straight to intake. Anything unused is capped.

Finally took the valve cover off, found that the cam dowel wasn’t quite at 12 o’clock at TDC, so fixed that. No real change. Distributor was all the way counter clockwise in its adjustment groove, so I figured I’d re-stab it. Got it pretty much dead on, in the middle of its groove, and now no start at all. It’s not 180 out. Rotor points at #1 with cam dowel at almost 12 o’clock and timing mark at 5 BTDC. #1 intake and exhaust valve rockers have play, so #1 is at TDC.

Cranked and cranked and cranked, then BANG, the loudest backfire I’ve ever heard. Little puff of smoke out of the exhaust. Now I’m worried about messing with it and continuing to try for fear that something is or could be damaged. Wtf, how do I go from running to not running by setting the timing to exactly what the FSM says instead of leaving it wrong? Timing light before showed it was SUPER far advanced with the jumper in. Like, well past the last timing mark and like 2 inches down the crank pulley. Now can’t check and set it exact because it won’t run.

Any ideas? Are backfires out the exhaust worth worrying about or should it be okay to make adjustments and keep trying to crank it over? The go-to Toyota shop around here is booked out for a month, and I’d really rather not pay like $300 to have it towed there if it comes to that.

Andy A

Pull the covers to make sure cam sprockets and crank sprocket line up to their perspective marks.

Outer ring on damper could have slipped causing a bad timing reading.

Jimkola

If you have to swing the distributer all the way to one side in the slot to get it to start I can only think of three things to look at.
1) The distributer off a tooth
2)the pulley has slipped on the vulcanized rubber ring attaching it to the harmonic balancer
3) the timing chain is off a tooth.

Getting a new chain on a 22R can be a bit tricky if you don’t know how to collapse the tensioner to get the sprocket on the cam. I could see someone getting it off a tooth if they were struggling

Danson

Timing chain was off a tooth, I fixed that already. Didn’t change much. Figured it would let me get the distributor more in the center of the groove but it still didn’t like that. So I moved on to the distributor being off a tooth, reinstalled it by pointing rotor at 12 o’clock and stabbing it, and that’s when it stopped running entirely and the backfires (afterfires?) started.

Really confusing to find a couple things obviously wrong, fix them, and have it make it worse. Supposedly this engine was remanufactured, and it looks it, but if they got the cam timing wrong (pointed the two dots on the sprocket at 12 instead of the dowel) and the distributor placement wrong, I’m scared the previous poster may be correct about the damn crank pulley being wrong too. Pulling the cover, water pump, getting FIPG for the pan, etc. sounds like a lot more than I care to do with this damn thing. Guess I’ll have it towed somewhere and see what they find out. Hopefully I’m an idiot and did something wrong but I’ve double checked my work to the FSM so many times now.

It also doesn’t make sense that the truck ran fine at anything other than idle. Timing being that far off for different reasons would surely affect more than just the idle. Most of the research I’ve done shows that most of the common things (IACV, EGR, VSVs, AFM, TPS, etc) usually don’t result in the thing not starting at all, or not idling at all, yet here we are after checking or eliminating all of that.

coryc85

Since this is an 86 4Runner, then I guess we can assume that it is 22re. I believe the "covers" that Andy A is referring to are the valve covers (he must be thinking 3.0 engine, not the 22re), so in your case you have only a single valve cover to remove, you should not need FIPG nor will you need to remove the water pump.

You can just take off the valve cover. If you have the FSM, the follow procedure for valve adjustment, or you can see this procedure here from LCE https://lcengineering.com/engine-20r...ve-adjustment/

That should tell you how to make certain that you are at TDC with valve cover off.

Jimkola

Not sure i understand the 12:00 comment.
I'd pull all the plugs then rotate the engine until #1 piston is fully raised.
Then install the distributer so it's pointing at #1 on the cap. If it's off 180 degrees turn the engine one complete rotation.
Once you have the #1 piston at the top you can glance down and see if the notch on the harmonic balancer is lining up 0 on the cover. a quick way to confirm the harmonic balancer is ok.

Danson

Ah, I more meant the talk about the balancer, everything has to come off to make sure my timing mark on the balancer is in the right spot relative to the crank, right? And correct, 22RE.


I’ve got the valve cover off. Just for clarity’s sake, there’s no way I’m off if this is all the case, right?

1) cam dowel at 12 o’clock with timing mark at 0
2) cam gear two dots not quite 12 o’clock, offset to the left a little
4) #1 intake and exhaust valves have play
5) distributor rotor pointing at #1 (more exact at 5 BTDC as FSM calls for, but in the neighborhood at 0)

I have to be screwing something up, I really don’t get how all of the above is true but the thing won’t even run. Or why it would run with them out of adjustment (but not idle without the screw way out, causing surging) then not run at all once they’re more accurate. I’m curious if the loud backfire was maybe due to the aftermarket coil I tried, but it makes me not want to crank it to test the OEM one.

Danson

22RE performance has a video on distributor installation, says the trick is to point the rotor straight up and then stab it. It kicks the rotor to the left when it seats so it’s pointing at #1 every time. I can see the top of the piston in the #1 cylinder but I will make sure it’s actually at the very top of its stroke with the mark at 0.

Jimkola

Those Denso coils rarely failed. I did replace mine with a new Denso for the heck of it, but my old one tested fine. I’d put the old one on until things are working right.
An internal combustion engine needs only a few things to work.
1) fuel
2) air
3) compression
4)reasonably close timing.

The distributer having to be maxed out to the side of the adjusting slot would be a red flag for me. Right now you don’t need to replace extraneous parts. Just focus on the relationship of the #1 piston to the distributer. The other three pistons will tag along. Once you get #1 to TDC you can look down at the balancer and see what it shows. Also confirm that the distributer rotor is pointing close to#1. If it’s on the opposite side then give #1 piston one complete cycle. That’ll turn the rotor 180 degrees.
Finding TDC at #1 can feel a bit subjective when it’s at the top of the rise, so now glancing the timing mark can help you nail it. But the timing mark should be pretty close to 0 anyway. You’re just fine tuning. If the timing mark is way off that could indicate a pulley issue.
But once you get #1 piston at TDC you can now set the distributor, and at the same time confirm your timing mark on the cam. With all three in harmony you can go tackle other issues. But these three setting have to be right. Everything else in the engine center around these core settings.

2ToyGuy

One real good way to verify that the #1 piston is at TDC when the crankshaft pulley is indicating such, is to remove the valve cover, and check that both valves of the #1 cylinder are loose/sloppy. If either valve is tight, rotate the crankshaft 1 complete rotation, then check again. They should both now be loose.

If the #1 piston never achieves TDC when the crankshaft pulley indicates 0°, it's possible the crankshaft pulley has slipped relative to it correct position on the crankshaft, and should be replaced.

If you need to stab the distributor, aim the rotor straight up at 12 o'clock, then slide it in, when the #1 piston is at TDC, as verified above. It should turn the rotor CCW to the 10 o'clock position, directly at the #1 tower on the distributor cap, as it slides in. The bolt that holds the distributor in place should now be at roughly the center of it's throw. The center of the slot it is capable of moving through. Roughly. If it's way off, you missed a tooth on the distributor, and should try again. I've had to do it a few times on the 87 4Runner I used to own, that had a 22RE engine, and it's worked perfectly every time. You can then assemble the engine and fire it with the jumper in to check the timing. Should be indicating right at 5° BTDC. If not, adjust the distributor until it is. Then stop the engine, remove the jumper, and start it up again. The timing should now be showing right about 10-12° BTDC without the jumper in. After all that, the ECU controls the timing. You shouldn't have to do anything.

Good fortune!
Pat☺