What is suprising you about those componants?

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

 

G-
It is my recollection, fuzzy as it may be, that you did not think going to colder plugs was necessary (or was it colder plugs AND a narrower gap?) and that a lower thermostat was merely a bandaid for fuel and timing problems. I am not as opposed to the colder plug idea as I am to the colder thermostat. I assume that although you are going to advocate for colder plugs, you are not suggesting gapping them to anything other than the OE .042 - .044 setting. TRD is saying to go to .032. I am not belittling your efforts and research at all, I am merely not convinced that this adjustment is absolutely necessary. YMMV

 

I weighed my 2002 4Runner Ltd w/ aluminum sport skid front plate and no aftermarket body modifications. Here is the number:

4301#

This is WITH a full tank of gas, WITHOUT a driver, and WITHOUT anything of any significance except WITH what little was in the glove box and center console and WITH CatchAll floor mats in the front, rear and cargo areas.

This was done on a calibrated truck scale at a local landfill.

 

Hey guys,

I think that study was an average and not specific to the 4runner at all. The value of 0.45 seems very high to me (more like a pickup truck or something). Even the Toyota landcruiser is only 0.39 so worst case you could use that number.

Here is the link to the study I think Peter was using:
http://www.iit.edu/~ipro326s03/about.pdf

Notice that the large SUV average is LESS than the medium SUV average.....possible but very unusual to me. Anyway the japanese cars are much better on Cd (usually 0.36 to 0.4) while the american ones are really quite hideous (0.40 to 0.48+). Up to you what you want to use though.

Good stuff on the real scale data!!! Thx for the work on that.

 

Thanks Peter! Man these things are heavy...

And yeah MTL, I was thinking .45 was really high. I found a reference elsewhere stating .35 and that seems more in tune.

 

Mark,
MTL_4Runner is correct about the web site I refered to and here are two others to look at.

http://www.eng-tips.com/gviewthread..../108/qid/30167

http://www.bgsoflex.com/airdragchart.html

I really believe that these 4R's aerodynamic design is second only to moving a huge brick through the air.

BTW, my guy at Magnuson is apparently too busy with projects to speak with me right now so I am not going to pursue him any longer. He knows what I want and how to reach me.

I have to work this weekend or I would spend some time trying to collect some dyno data.

P.S. I've also got to say that I really feel for the people in CA and the incredible losses being suffered. I hope known of you are effected by this tragedy. :cry:

 

Hey Peter,

Not sure about the accuracy of the second site.
This one gives you a pretty good idea:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient

It says here that a Tacoma is a 0.4 so a 4Runner should be close.
http://www.autolove.com/toyota/420_2003_tacoma.htm

Found a really scary page of equations if any are so inclined.
http://www.teknett.com/pwp/drmayf/analyses.htm

I find estimates all over the place.
....can't possibly be higher than 0.42 for a 4Runner so try that.

Not worth beating to death cause you just want relative umbers for comparison anyway.

 

I do remember saying that I find no reason for a narrow gap on the plugs. I have always run mine at .043 and I have been using two steps cooler plugs almost since day one. I did try TRD's recommended plat plugs one step cooler, but I went back and found my engine ran smoother.

As far as the thermostat, I have been running a 170* one for a while now and the engine is more peppy with it. The engine temp is a rock solid 180* with it where it was 190* with the stock 180*

What I have seen is around a 15* drop in engine oil temp. I would not want any more drop in oil temp.

Gadget

www.GadgetOnline.com

 

Thank you for your response. I have no comment or criticism and respect the research you have done and continue to do. I will have to see what works for me.

 

I want to start off by saying I am doing the best I can to be helpful to everyone who is interested in the 7th injector kit. I started off by getting the best data I could to plug into the AUTERRA Dyno-Scan V4 software so I could get BEFORE 7th Injector information. Here is what I have:
Tire measurement: 265-70-16 = 30.60” diameter
Overall gear ratio: 5.6245
What I did here is to do 4 runs in 2nd gear and take the average of all the runs. (5.440, 5.535, 5.627, 5.896)
Then I did two Power Torque Runs in 2nd gear; 3rd gear would have been better but I cannot find a long enough road to do it on (safely). I came up with (Run 1) 302 HP, 5200 rpm, 379 ft/lb, 3300 rpm peak torque; (Run 2) 308 HP, 5200 rpm, 366 ft/lb, 3300 rpm peak torque.

Now I would like to comment on the installation instructions for the TRD 7th Injector Kit, as it applies to my 2002 4Runner w/ Gen 2 supercharger. YMMV. I have spent about 3.5 hours on it so far and am finished with the under hood portion. I will install the ECU’s tomorrow. This will be most valuable for those who have the installation manual and can follow along.

Page 3, Figure 3: You can use an allen key/socket to remove the short studs in the plenum after you remove the EGR plate and 12mm nuts.

Page 4, Item 6: When you install the new studs, DO NOT TORQUE them to 14 ft-lbs. This is crazy and there is a good likelihood that you will strip the threads in the plenum before you reach 14 ft-lbs. Use two nuts, locking them together on the studs, and SNUG the studs in until you feel resistance, then remove the nuts.

Page 4, Item 8, Figure 6: The bolt is 10mm, not 6mm. I would also remove the two 10mm bolts on the plastic loom that goes forward along the passenger side paralleling the fuel rail, this will give you more flexibility when you are trying to get the new injector banjo installed.

Page 5, Item 9, Figure 7: The factory banjo bolt, and the TRD banjo bolt, are both 17mm.

Page 6, Item 13: Now is the time to torque the nuts on the new longer studs to 14 ft-lbs.

Page 6, Item 15: It is safest to tighten the fuel line fittings if you use a 9/16” flare nut wrench on the connection to the injector block and use a either a flare nut or open end 14mm or 9/16” claw foot socket to tighten the lower fuel rail banjo connection. A 17mm wrench is used for the new banjo bolt.

Page 6, Item 16: I would not put the wire wrap on until you are sure there are no leaks.

Page 6, Item 17: Again, it is a 10mm bolt.

That is all I have so far. I am not removing the inner fender intake snorkel because I have the deckplate mod and I will simply unscrew the cover. I am also not changing out the OE thermostat; however, I probably will switch back to colder plugs again.

I also installed a 3/8 NPT plastic vacuum bung in the ISR tube, offset to the throttle body end of the tube. I attached the FPR vacuum line directly to it.

 

Hey, that's great Peter.
Glad to see you got a chance to run the Dyno.
HP and torque numbers may be a bit high but they will be fine for comparison.
Later if you go to a fixed dyno shop you can find the actual and then figure out what the input file should be.
Keep us abreast as you go along.

 

J-
I also thought the numbers were high but figured that at least it establishes a bench mark. You have no idea how nerve wracking it was for me to do these simple testsand I had no one to help me. I tried doing them in 3rd gear but almost ran into the ocean. I am so uneasy about TRD and their presentation of this 7th Injector kit. I also do not understand why my guy at Magnuson went silent on me; I am betting that TRD put out a gag order to them. I am going to try to call him again after the holiday. Speaking of which, hope you have a good TG ... if you celebrate it being in Canada.
Thank you for your encouragement and support.

 

I recently put on the 7th inj I do not have dyno numbers butI can tell you it made a big differance... the cpu needs to adjust it took about 3 days of driving for it to get it together.
now the power is on after 3200 rpms fuel milage is the same or better . though I have been putting my foot into it lately.:pat:
I still have to put the plugs into it and I have the stock thermostat and no overheating issues..
I can tell you all this when you hit the gas you are going ...........soon as the inj starts to work it is like a small shot of nos..

 

PAXAM -
OoooooKay, I'll get my butt up and go finish the job. I was wondering what would happen to the mpg, although my suspicion was that since the engine would be running more efficiently that my highway mileage might even improve from the current 21-22mpg. We'll see. Thanks for the comments. Did you find the errors that I found in the install instructions? I also found that you had to remove the gold colored harness clamp bracket on the firewall (one 10mm bolt) before you removed the two 10mm nuts for the firewall harness cover.

 

fuel mpg well I went across the state this weekend andthe fuel milage was about 20 mpg .. I filled up did the trip did some running around town and then filled up and to my supprise it was 20 mpg... on the way back I was into it a little more doing 80 and 3000 rpm's I have not checked it yet but it looks like it is may be 19 .. I have allways got 18-19 hwy mpg . I followed the instructions and did not run into any major issues . the studs on the sc I thought were toqured a bit much and I installed a plug where I assume the boost gauge would go It could of fallen in since it did not stop.
touqueing the fuel rail was a trick..
The wiring harness in the truck was scarrey at first but I did it all step by step and the truck worked.. mounting the new cpu and junction box was a hassle.but patience and using the pad/velcrow provided it does not rattle.
I am impressed with the performance so far the only thing left for me is a fuel pump just to cya.


Micahel

 

Michael et al,
You say that the mounting the TRD CPU and Junction Box was a hassle. Hey. lets call a spade a spade ... it was bloody ball buster. I have done a lot of stuff like this but I would rather give birth than have had to figure this stupid thing out. The junction box did shoe horn in along side the blower unit, but I had to re-route all kinds of wire bundles and the only way it would fit without interfering with the AC linkage was with the connectors facing up and down. I did not need to tie it back against the OE ECU bracket and quite frankly I could not see how that would have been accomplished successfully. As for the TRD ECU, there was no way that thing was going to fit up against the AirBag canister on my truck … NO WAY. What I did was to mount it on the top of the air duct with the connectors facing toward the firewall. I used a strip of 3M VHB double sided mounting tape. This stuff is not effected by high heat and sticks like epoxy, so I am not concerned about the unit coming loose. All in all, the electronics installation is not a pleasant or rewarding task and I wish there was a nicer place to have positioned the junction box … actually there was but I would have needed longer harness leads.

Anyone about to do this installation, feel free to email me off-list if you want my inputs.

The engine runs smooth and accelerates smoothly, but I cannot say I was bowled over with the performance. I will see how I feel after a few hundred miles and after I take more Dyno data.

 

yep it was a pain in the ... but after you drive the few hundred miles it will come alive... At first I was not impressed with the performance it took a few days .... I am still learning when the 7th in comes in and how to control it. though I was messing around with a car I was about 4000 rmp but not full throttle the guy thought he had me I put it down the inj fired and it was classic I pulled him ..he was pissed wanted to know if there was a v8 under the hood ...told him it was stock...lol

 

Hey Michael, that is great news ... I can't wait. For the time being I will continue to nurse all the tiny cuts on my hands from the last two days. Have good holiday. Peter

 

haha i did a quick write up on install a few days ago. shoulda posted it here.

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/show...threadid=21541

also for those that want the cheapest price. I searched and searched before i found mine and got it here

http://www.toyotaworld.com/3.4L_supercharger.htm

this isnt a current ad but they will honor it since they still havent pulled it off the website.

 

FYI ...
The ECU is _still_ learning after 700 miles of driving. The driveability continues to improve (SOTP).

I checked mpg and where I used to get +18 mpg I am now getting +16 mpg.

Upsifts are very firm so the programming has done something to modify the valve body vacuum pressure.

That's it for now.