Speedy

Look at this grid. It shows the LC-1 has data logging to a PC or am I just confused?

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/p...s/MTS_grid.php

It also says it comes with Logworks Software. Seems kinda weird to include software with a device that can't use it. What do you think?

mastacox

Interesting! What that grid is showing you is that you can see the data output by the LC-1 if you plug a lapatop into it. The logworks software can act as a logging program, but the problem is that you need to have AFR input (from the LC-1) along with RPM input and MAP input for the logging to really be useful. To do this, you would need at a minimum have the LC-1 and add an SSI-4 with some kind of MAP sensor plugged into one of its analog inputs. Then, using you laptop you would be able to make a 3-D plot of RPM-MAP-AFR and see where you need to tune your fuel map in the open-loop region (and anywhere your AFR Sensor Calibrator is active). You would also be able to display any data interpreted by the SSI-4 on your XD-16 display.

The reason I will be going with the LMA-3 is it has several sensors I would want already built-in (specifically EGT, MAP, RPM, and available inputs for other senders), and can autonomously log them. This data can then be downloaded to the PC.

midiwall

Hey guys... the LC-1 page talks about logging:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

I haven't been following too close with you guys talking about the LC-1, but were you thinking that it didn't have logging capabilities? It looks like it also has two programmable outputs.

mastacox

The LC-1 has two programmable outputs one of which can be used to simulate a narrow-band oxygen sensor while the other one would go to another part of the MTS chain. It doesn't have any built-in logging capabilities though, you have to use your laptop for logging, and logging AFR by itself will be of no use since you need RPM and MAP inputs as well to compare it against the FTC1's fuel maps. or in your case for the SMT-5, you would want RPM-TPS-AFR inputs.

Speedy

I did some searching and found you went through similar things I'm experiencing back in August of last year. How'd you make out with your tuning? I never saw any updates.

I'm leaning toward going with the new URD 7th injector kit due out any day now supposedly (although they've been saying that for months). My thinking is that it will be easier to tune as I'll only need to add fuel where I need it rather than fighting with the ECU in closed loop. Now, my concern is that when the ECU is in closed loop and I'm just driving normally, isn't the engine still in mild boost? So wouldn't a little fuel be needed there as well or will the stock ECU handle some boost and the 7th is just need for hard runs at WOT?

mastacox

It's been a learning process for me, but so far I've been doing pretty well at getting the tune where I want it. I was able to easily tune the timing advance such that I have no ping, but fuel has been a little elusive for the "perfect" tune, especially for warm starts and very cold starts (under 20 deg. F). I'm planning to do another round of tuning and try to get some of the issues ironed out, and I will be paying special attention to trying to get the fuel trims down to zero in areas of the map where my O2 Signal Conditioner hasn't kicked in yet.

Yup, you'll have to tune as soon as you hit positive boost. However, your engine doesn't run in boost all the time, so tuning will only have to be done for positive values. This will help a lot in avoiding warm start, engine braking, and idle issues. You will have just as much tuning to do in the positive bost area as I do though.

You will also need to make your AFR Sensor Calibrator kick in as soon as you hit positive pressure, otherwise your fuel trims will be severely positive in the gap between when you pass into positive boost and the AFR calibrator kicks in (necessitating frequent ECU resets). This will be an artifact of the fact that you don't have any possibility to add a fuel map over the top of the stock fuel system, so you won't be able to apply negative fuel map values anywhere. Just something to keep in mind.

BTW, URD's new kit will actually be their "port fueling system," so it's not really considered a 7th injector in the true sense of the term. The general idea is similar to the TRD 7th injector, but fuel is pumped directly into the intake ports, rather than the S/C's body. I'm not sure if this is done through one injector or 6... from the look of URD's picture on the website, it may take 6 additional injectors rather than one (the website has it titled as "URD 5VZ-E 6 additional injector system").

Speedy

That's a different product. This is brand new and hasn't been released yet. This is an actual 7th injector from what I understand, very similar to TRDs offering.

mastacox

Interesting...

Speedy

I thought so too after all the talk about larger injectors and what not and to not use the TRD 7th. I called Brian at URD and he said this would be ideal for what I'm looking for. So we'll see.

QSVeilside

So... Let me get this straight. You want 100 rwhp, which others as well as I have accomplished safely and reliably with the 7th, but would rather opt for the guinea pig option? Interesting.

If you don't want to go with the TRD 7th, go with the URD fuel injectors. Proven. Nuff said.

midiwall

Like Speedy said, there's something new coming, but to answer this...

There are two people on here that have this, one of them lives close to me and works even closer...

It's 6 injectors... Steve and company did it to handle the needs of the Turbo folks. With the insane boost numbers that you can get from a Turbo, you need to be able to push more fuel that is reasonable by cranking up the stock injector sizes. So the port fueler is a machined piece that sits between the halves of the stock plenum and holds 6 additional injectors.



yeah Speedy, I kinda' have to agree... The upside to Steve's new toy will be the ability to tune, (there's no tuning with the stock 7th system), but I dunno that you wanna be the first. With you being in Nashville, and Steve in NJ, Brian in CA, you won't be able to get hands-on help during the shake-down period.

On the upside, this new thing shouldn't be overly complex, I'm thinking it's basically just the SplitSecond AIC1 and an injector in the stock location. I don't know why it would have to be anything else.

Speedy

I've been having e-mail discussions with folks who have the TRD 7th and have had cracked heads after 50 - 70K miles. None did any tuning though so that may have something to do with it. One got his top end rebuilt but it took a nasty letter to Toyota Corporate to get it done as Toyota didn't wanna cover it under warranty. Now he's running a smaller pulley to avoid the issue again.

I'm gonna wait to see what the URD 7th looks like. It's gonna be several hundred cheaper than the TRD kit.

I won't be cutting any harness wires period so larger injectors are pretty much out. Supra injectors are $700 at the dealer and that's with a 25% discount.

Speedy

That's why I'm waiting to see exactly what it is and what it does. There's a guy over on CT that's had it for a while and says it's flawless. I guess he was the real guinea pig. Historically I've never been an early adopter, so I'll have to see if this kit follows the TRD 7th in principle but allows tuning.

Speedy

URD's 7th kit has been released. I've got my Supercharger on the way so now I gotta figure out fueling. What do you guys think? It looks like a good value for all the stuff you get Vs. the TRD 7th, but I'm not usually the guinea pig. On the upside of that, I would assume that the URD support for this would be readily available and they want the kit to be a success.

http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.p..._id=1260518512

Opinions?

mastacox

Looks like an excellent deal for what you're getting, especially over the TRD 7th injector; the URD kit has the AIC, paired with colder plugs, thermostat, and fuel pump where as the TRD kit has non of the above. I'm curious what the flow rating is for the injector, and what kind it is. Overall, looks like a good choice. I wonder what kind of horsepower this set up can carry versus the larger fuel injector route?

Good luck! Hope to see some install pics

Speedy

Since I've started project SportRunner I've been taking pictures of the various upgrades. I thought I might start a site for it like my motorcycle site, so I guess now that I'm going all in with the performance upgrades now's a good time to start it.

Be on the lookout for the site soon.

mt_goat

Doesn't the controller also do the free-air calabration? I can't image how you could get an accurate reading without it. If you could, why would Innovative include it?

mastacox

Touche, Dale.