Speedy

I've spent the past 3 weeks reading everything I could find on getting a supercharger for my 4Runner. I've posted this on TTORA and CT, but wanted to put it here as well to get opinions. From what I've read, it looks like these are the two options. Can someone in the know confirm for me so I don't miss anything and will know how much cash this is gonna take.

I've done some more reading....

I've sent e-mails to URD and Gadget, but haven't heard back yet, but it's only been a couple of days so hopefully I will soon.

In the meantime it looks like there are basically two options for doing this SC deal right. Can someone in the know confirm these so I know what I need??

BOLT ON SOLUTION (easiest install, good performance but not maximum)
Get an additional injector kit either from TRD, or URD's new kit and get URD's AIC with timing control for tuning. With that solution here's what's needed:

a) TRD Supercharger
b) Additional Injector Kit (TRD or URD)
c) URD Additional Injector Controller with timing feature
d) AFR WB - URD's LC-1 and XD-16 Kit to monitor AFRs
e) 2 step cooler iridium spark plugs
f) 170 degree thermostat

NON BOLT ON SOLUTION (harder to install, but provides the maximum performance possible)
a) TRD Supercharger
b) URD Fuel Upgrade Kit
c) URD MAF/Timing Calibrator (aka FTC)
d) URD AFR Sensor Calibrator
e) AFR WB - URD's LC-1 and XD-16 Kit to monitor AFRs

Can someone confirm these please?

The only thing I wasn't sure of is whether or not a Walbro 190 Fuel Pump is needed if just going with the additional injector solution.

I have an auto tranny and know I should look into a valve body upgrade as well, but that's pretty simple to figure out compared to the SC options.

Thanks in advance.

mastacox

Yup, looks like you've got most of it figured out. Just to be clear, you need the Walbro Fuel pump in both cases though.

There will also be some tuning in both cases, the amount difference in tuning between the 7th injector and the Fuel upgrade kit are not as great as some people make it out to be. You still have to adjust timing, some closed loop delivery if you want to make sure you have more fuel in boost (for this you'll also need the URD AFR Sensor Calibrator), and open loop fuel delivery... In fact, in both cases you'll want to get the URD AFR Sensor Calibrator, to make sure you don't run too lean under part-throttle boost conditions.

EDIT:

Also, the "URD Supercharger Fuel Upgrade Kit" comes with the FTC-1 in it already. And the "URD Additional Injector Controller Kit" comes with colder plugs, walbro fuel pump, and the t-stat. Oh, and you'll want a BR3 OBD-II Scan Tool too...

EDIT ALSO:

If you might ever consider getting WMI injection in the future, talk to midiwall about possibly getting a Perfect Performance SMT-6 instead of the FTC-1, because it has an extra map available for controlling such a thing.

midiwall

i'm everywhere...

Both packages look good, but (of course!) I have some comments.

• Like Brian said, you need the Walbro 190 no matter what.
  
  
• If you're looking to save some cash, the Wideband can be staved off and replaced with a narrowband gauge hooked to the front O2 sensor. It's not recommended for WOT tuning, but it's fine to keep track of general "how's it running?" issues.
  
  
• Give a bunch-o thought to running an EGT gauge. It's a BETTER way to have an idea of not only "how's it running?" but also "how far can I push it?".
  
  
• You really should look into the SMT6 if you're thinking about the FTC1 solution. There's an SMT thread around here with a bunch-o information. I think I ran though a couple of the differences before in a thread with you... the extra map is one of them.
  
  
• Brian pointed you to the BR3 - VERY nice box, but you'll need a laptop to run it. There are stand-alone solutions that we can talk about as well.
  
  
• You should run the 170* thermostat for both solutions.
  
  
• If you buy the SC used, then you'll want to be sure you have the "TRD SC Throttle Body Gasket". The stock TB gasket is often a "D" shape which will cost you 1-1.5psi of boost in a SC setup.

Have fun!

midiwall

hmmm...

You have a 2002 - I THINK your front O2 sensor is actually a wideband AF/R sensor already. If so, then there is NO need to add another one. You can piggyback a gauge off of the stock one just fine.

mastacox

I think I have heard that piggybacking off of the stock AFR sensor is a nono, but don't quote me on that...

midiwall

I think that's a myth that Gadget created so that he can resell more Innovate Motorsports products.

I figure that the fear is that the additional load of a gauge can affect the reading. Electrically, I don't see it happening. The high impedance of the gauge will barely be felt (if at all) on the wire - especially if it's a wideband.

I can appreciate people worrying about it, but I'd like to see some voltage measurements to prove it.

mastacox

I dunno Mark, wideband is an awfully nice thing to have; and besides, he doesn't have a narrow band sensor to tap into.

As for the wideband setup. I think the LC-1 / XD-16 combo is an EXCELLENT way to go (mainly because it's what I have). I hope to in the future have a data logging system plugged into it (which is where I will get EGT from) and it will help me have a lot of information displayed on only 2 gauges (yes, I hope to have 2 XD-16's, the boost gauge will be replaced with one). I hope to use the system for keeping track of several metrics, including EGT, AFR, Boost, Oil Pressure, etc. I also really like the ability of a permanent install to ALWAYS see what my AFR is, because it's immediately obvious if something is wrong with fuel delivery in the engine. I guess I just don't have the faith that everything is always working fine.

mastacox

LOL this thread is turning into another "Brian and Mark talk about the finer points of tuning a supercharged engine" thread...

mastacox

Well, another problem is you can't really just plug into a wire at the O2 sensor, because you need a computer to make sense of what the sensor is saying to transmit it to a gague... so really the only thing you would save money on is another O2 sensor, which isn't that much $$$...

mastacox

Puhleezzz, the Innovate Standalone System retails for $399, it's an LC-1 with XD-16 and AFR sensor. You just get a bung in the exhaust for it (which the kit comes with too...) We're not talking about an LM-1 mind you, it's an LC-1 which is just a controller (but is the same internals as an LM-1). The XD-16 displays the LC-1's data. I have my LC-1 zip tied next to my aux fuse box under the hood, it's water proof and everything.

... and the AFR sensors are only $75


PWNED!

EDIT: Uh oh, the Standalone kit even has "Free Shipping" right now! Double PWNAGE!!!

midiwall

oops.

Yeah, I was talking about the LM-1. I'll pull that babble.

midiwall

Ummm... Both narrowband gauges I have handles this on their own.

The O2 signal (narrow or wide band) is just a voltage, there's nothing magical about it. The only special thing about a narrowband is that the voltage shift is very "narrowly banded" (0.2->1.1v) versus a wideband is 0-5v.


Cost wise... I bought my dual EGT/AFR meter for $80. Works well, and lets me run three gauges in a two gauge pod.

mastacox

I dunno, got any examples of Wideband AFR gauges that are made to take a 0-5V input and diplay it as AFR? Sounds like you'd have to instead have a 0-5V voltage gauge... because the gauges I have seen plug into their host controller. Usually the controller is used because it controls warm-up of the O2 sensor (plus the gauges are using a digital/serial signal), why hasn't anyone just plugged a gauge straight into their stock WB sensor?

Yeah, but I'm goin for the bling factor (while reducing the total number of gauges I have mounted everywhere). That, and a logging system will make tuning the WOT a breeze (you know how it goes, add bigger injectors here, WMI there). As long as the system keeps track of MAP, RPM, and AFR, I can just plot it in a 3-D plot, and adjust my fuel map accordingly. Now closed loop isn't quite as obvious due to the damn ECU's fuel trims, if only I could log those... Oh yeah I was going to use the logging system to watch Tranny temp too. By using the logger I can fit 6 gauges in the space of two: Boost (MAP), AFR, EGT, Trans temp, Oil Pressure, etc.

Speedy

I'm not looking for absolute performance so I don't think I'm at all interested in WMI. I don't want to have another item to fool with. I'm just looking for bolt on, setup, tune, forget it.

I'd rather have full time AFR monitoring for peace of mind. I'm also a tech nut so I think having a real time gauge for this is kinda handy.

Isn't the AFR a better way to determine that? If AFRs are in line, wouldn't exhaust gas temp be by default or am I missing something?

I don't wanna get overly complicated and don't plan on WMI or anything like that. Should I still consider this. Again I just wanna install, setup, tune, and forget it. If I get 225-230 RWHP I'd be thrilled.

No problems there. I'm an IT professional with more computers than I know what to do with.

Noted....

That's my understanding as well....it's a NO NO.

If I could get everything down to 2 gauges then I could probably add an EGT gauge. I'm looking to have boost and AFR at least. If I can get EGT in the mix but not have to have gauges all over the place then I could do that too. My only other big problem with an EGT gauge is having to drill a hole in the manifold to mount it. Not too keen on that.

So is this correct??

BOLT ON SOLUTION (easiest install, good performance but not maximum)
Get an additional injector kit either from TRD, or URD's new kit and get URD's AIC with timing control for tuning. With that solution here's what's needed:

a) TRD Supercharger
b) Additional Injector Kit (TRD or URD)
c) URD Additional Injector Controller with timing feature
d) AFR WB - URD's LC-1 and XD-16 Kit to monitor AFRs
e) 170 degree thermostat
f) OBDII BR-3 Scan Tool
g) URD AFR Sensor Calibrator

NON BOLT ON SOLUTION (harder to install, but provides the maximum performance possible)
a) TRD Supercharger
b) URD Fuel Upgrade Kit
c) URD MAF/Timing Calibrator (aka FTC)
d) URD AFR Sensor Calibrator
e) AFR WB - URD's LC-1 and XD-16 Kit to monitor AFRs
f) OBDII BR-3 Scan Tool

mastacox

These would be your shopping lists, not really a big fan of the "bolt-on" vs. "not" distinction but anyway... again there really isn't a huge difference between the two in terms of tuning requirements except that the 7th injector route runs a little bit better at idle, and with hot starts and the like. 7th injector route might also be slightly more expensive.

Additional injector route:

Get an additional injector kit either from TRD or URD's new kit, and get URD's AIC with timing control for tuning. With that solution here's what's needed:

a) TRD Supercharger
b) Additional Injector Kit (TRD or URD)
c) URD Additional Injector Controller with timing feature (includes plugs, thermostat, controller)
d) AFR WB - URD's LC-1 and XD-16 Kit to monitor AFRs
e) OBDII BR-3 Scan Tool
f) URD AFR Sensor Calibrator

Larger Injectors Route

Buy the TRD supercharger, then get the fuel upgrade kit which includes everything you need for making the engine run right. With that solution you need:

a) TRD Supercharger
b) URD Fuel Upgrade Kit (Includes FTC-1, and everything else needed)
c) URD AFR Sensor Calibrator
d) AFR WB - URD's LC-1 and XD-16 Kit to monitor AFRs
e) OBDII BR-3 Scan Tool

jrock

I've got some used, non-turbo supra injectors for sale if your interested. 6 for $175. Others will let us know if that's too high or a good deal. They will work with stock harness and are the same supplied in the URD kit, saving you some money there while you do it right.

mastacox

The URD kit has different injoctors: they are 318cc Bosch Injectors, and they don't work with the factory harness. The non-turbo supra injectors are what, 305cc? But they do work with the factory harness.

Speedy

MANY THANKS!

mkgarrison5

damn all of this sounds like more trouble than its worth lol.

jrock

that's accurate. anyone know of a mechanic located in Orange county to assist me with split second install/tuning/ and splicing new injector harness in?