Yeah that sounds very similar to what's happening to me. It doesn't happen all of the time, only rarely and usually the ECU figures things back out if I take it easy on the throttle for a little bit. Still, PITA when it happens and I'm trying to get up a hill without fouling my oxygen sensors and cat.

It's very possible things are not working as perfectly as I would like to think... I was operating under the impression these symptoms were a result of not having a very smooth tune around the area the ESC kicks in.

 

I haven't been able to catch the problem with my laptop hooked up yet, but I suspect no. As far as i can tell the ECU goes into freak-out open loop and dumps in too much fuel. It's a very strange symptom because if the fuel trim was zero the AFR would be 14.7 (assuming I got the values on my fuel map right) but going down to 9.0 suggests to me that the ECU starts dumping in as much fuel as it can (+20%).

 

Yeah check that out, mine will go into open loop at what seems like about 50% throttle sometimes.

 

My sender has two wires going to it. A black and a purple. The wires are about 8 feet long and have a plug on the other end of them than snap into the gauge.

I actually had one of those T fitting in my hands at ACE yesterday. It would have to be a VERY small screw and I'm not sure something that small would provide a good enough ground. That's when I got the idea of welding or soldering on a nut on the flat side and connecting up there.

 

I know the products are similar, but aren't you using the new AFR Calibrator? That's different from the ESC-1 correct?

I've talked to several people over on CT that have the newer AFR Calibrator and have had it for a year or so and report things work as expected.

 

Here are the instructions to the gauge I have:

http://www.autometer.com/productPDF/0596A.pdf

Note the two wires coming from the sender.

 

Hmmm...my guess is your 2nd wire is a ground and you don't need another one then. I'd try it without another ground and see if it works, mine (Isspro gauge) has 2 wires too and doesn't need another ground.

Yeah mine is called an A/F ratio sensor calibrator:
http://www.urdusa.com/product_info.p..._id=1230100028 I think the only difference is the WB sensor vs NB sensor.

 

I only see one wire in the picture you attached. Where's the other? I'm curious if they're the same design.

 

Yeah its behind that one wire, it's hidden by the front wire in that pic.
Here's a better pic:

 

Ok that's exactly how mine is then. Hopefully I don't need another ground wire.

I called Autometer again and got another guy saying I don't need to ground it. He told me I could drop the sender in a bucket of hot water if I wanted proof so I may do that. I told him that the other guys there seem pretty confused, but he said he's positive the sender doesn't need to be grounded. We'll see.

On a side note, I've made a ton of updates to the Project SportRunner website:

www.hooliganbiketech.net/sportrunner

My TrueTrac LSD is in as well. Just gotta make an appt to get it installed.

 

[QUOTE=Greedy;50522680]If you have a OBD-II Scanner you will notice that when that is happening the ecu goes OPEN - CLOSED - OPEN - CLOSED....so you are right it does give up due to the awkward readings from the ESC1/O2 sensor. Newer vehicles would throw CEL but the older ones like 96-99 wont (some do its hard to tell).

I am about to install a second SMT6 to run the closed loop system...until the SMT7 arrives and it will do both. I have also a plan to use some o2 simulators, relays and the smt6 (or people can use a pressure sensor) to make my own esc1..

 

I just looked through about 200 of your pics. That was a major project you undertook. It looks like a VERY clean implementation. I've seen other engine swap projects that were worked, but looked butchered.

How'd you learn to do all that? I'm a decent mechanic, but that's WAY over my head.

 

A ME degree and experience as a mechanical engineer doesn't hurt any.

 

HAha, well there ya go. I have an Industrial Technology degree myself but the emphasis was Computer Engineering.

 

The search button was also a big help hehe.

 

So how do you know the engine won't do the same thing with your own implementation as it does with the ESC1?

 

because the smt6 can control open loop via the maf or closed loop via lambda control all it does is tell the ecu what it wants to know (that its around 14.7:1) but really the afr is different as you tune it.

What the ESC1 does is trick the ecu into thinking that it is in OPEN loop so you can tune it via the maf, this is what causes the ecu to get confused.

 

As far as I know, the ESC1 just puts out a 14.7:1 signal (0.5V IIRC) to make the ECU think that the mixture is stoich. There is no way to tell the ECU it is in Open Loop, it decides that on its own. The whole purpose of an oxygen sensor clamp is to make the ECU think the mixture is 14.7:1, so that any fuel changes made are not seen by the ECU.

I suspect the problem is related to either the ECU not believing the O2 sensor's signal because it sees a perfect mixture but is getting readings elsewhere that make it think something is wrong (like at the TPS sensor). That, or maybe the voltage is not consistent enough (or too consistent) and the ECU doesn't "believe" its reading.

I believe that the ESC1 is a shoddy implementation of the oxygen sensor fake-out idea (and perhaps the FTC1-E as well), but it definitely DOESN'T make the ECU think it's in open loop.

 

Steve (Gadget) has an interesting view on this point. Bottom line, I agree with you.


Correctomundo!


Yeah... $30 worth of parts for $200 retail and it still doesn't work.

 

The ESC1 does affect wither the engine is in open or closed loop...Mark even you should have seen this(or maybe i just did )...
Using the scanner you will SEE when the ECU is in open or closed it says right on the screen. As SOON as you hit the ESC1 setpoint (what is it...something like 1-2psi?) the screen changes from CLOSED to OPEN. Remove the ESC1 and goto the SAME pressure/throttle point and the screen will read CLOSED. The problem i see with the ESC1 is that it goes into OPEN loop like it is supposed to but after a short period of time (0-80mph accel at 3-4psi) it will start going closed-open-open-closed-open and the afr goes screwy....so yes the ESC1 does make it go into open loop.
Thats what confuses me about the whole thing...and of course you can tell the ecu to go into open loop when you want it to...just manipulate it To bad us AUTO guys cant do this


Or im just on crack.....i dunno...