Just checking in on you. Seeing if you have had any better luck. The 3rd gens are great little trucks. Just do the recommeded maintaince and you will be fine. One lesson I learned the hard way is dont fill the fuel all the way to the top. It will run raw gas into the charcoal filter.

 

Haven't had much time the past few days to post anything or check on everyone else but I wanted to get this up.
The night before I left out my no start no run issue reappeared. A little aggravating becouse I had it running several times through out the weekend, but I did exspect it to happen
again becouse I didn't really
Fix anything the last time it just decided to start. So I have decided that I am going to pull the plenam off becouse there are some things that should have been done to start with, sending injectors out to be checked etc, I really wanted to take a look at the harness before and make sure there were no problems but didn't and that seems to be a common issue with the age of these trucks. This is a big let down as I was really hoping to drive it some this summer but what ever or what ever the problem is needs found/fixed. I don't think its the injectors causing the no start issue, but maybe playing a part in the original and current running rich issue. I'm suspecting the wire loom and if not I will feel better knowing the condition of both ya know. I'm also going to change the hoses etc the way they should have been to begin with. If anybody has better ideas lay em on me, and if there are things I need to check while I have it that far apart don't hesitate to chime in.

 

Wow, sorry to hear that! The not running thing....Happy to hear that other runner's growin on ya! Good'ole'3.4!

So, .... first, I noticed you said something about the oil press. sender(dutch did, I guess). Thought you'd already put in the proper sender. That's the first thing that HAS to be done. the Sending unit on mine is one that works with the guage, not just a dummy light, and has the diameter of a energy drink. The stock one for the dummy light is around the size of a magic marker, lil bigger maybe. It's still single wire, .....and I THINK that same wire will work, as it's just a slide on clip/female. On my stock version for the gauge one, .... it has a round contact on it, under the rubber boot. I will get a pic, I'm sure I have one. You could probably get this at AZone for 50$ or so, max.

For some reason, I thought I saw a picture of your sender and it was the bigger one, like I have... guess we gotta clear that up, first, eh? lol. Sorry man. I might be hitting a yard in a day or so, ..if I see one I will yoink it. They don't often go out, it's usually the wiring, etc.

Far as the no start, ...WOW, THAT REALLY SUX! But, as you said, you were prepared either way, as not to get hopes too high, etc. I CAN RELATE! lol. Well, if you're going to pull the plenum, make sure the injectors are GETTING JUICE, before you pull everything completely apart.(You need the intake ground connected, I'm pretty sure, to run a noid test. Noid is the best way to 'SEE POWER', ...that light flashes, there is no doubt! ) You could VERY WELL have injectors that got completely clogged up and are still doing that on and off, because of bad fuel and the fact that they never got cleaned either. No way to tell until they're tested or else by seeing fuel through the plug hole, etc. But seeing that they're getting consistent power, that's crucial... if they're not, how can they fire, right?

I would just be guessing at this point, but I'd at least do a lil research on the other 3 things there that come into play, ... The injector resistor, the FPRegulator and the Damper. I DOUBT they would be an issue, the latter two anyway, and I can't KNOW that the resistor can intermittently go in and out.... I mean, other resistors get hot and flake out, right? I just don't know on that one. Then you have ignition components involved with "Not allowing injectors to fire"... but you've been through most of that, right?

Geeesh, sorry it's Point A man! But you'll get it, and YOU HEARD IT RUN STRONG! That's huge!

 

Hey mark yep I changed the op sending unit to the mechanical type, I have a few concerns with it tho, when I ordered it they some how got 2 of them, different brands even they told me the one I have was the better one, but they looked totally different ya know, I will try and get a pic of it when I get home. The no start thing gonna run down a noid light like you said and I guess start working my way back to the ecm, I checked the injector resistor but I will check it again. I just think its best to face the music that I'm gonna have to dig deeper.
The gauges if you can find a set I would be glad to by them.
Yes I'm really starting to like the new runner but like you told me once "You can't take the top off" so it will never replace my old one.
The new job is going good so far, you'd think driving was driving but always new things to learn.

 

Right, new things to learn EVERY DAY, .....especially as we get older and start forgetting things! hahaha, jk... But that's GREAT to hear, Jason!

 

nothing new to report, hoping to dig into this thing again this weekend really don't have the $ to send the injectors off to witchhunter at the moment but still a lot I can do. I anybody has any input on the reoccurring no start thing please post it up, I'm trying to avoid chasing my tail, and I'm really running out of ideas. I will be pulling the Plenum as I said before but even checking the wiring I'm Not sure what all to look for.

 

A'll be BOCK! .... hehe... Seriously, I will, just got back today, myself, so got's stuff's to handle...but I'll be back and try to help you chase it down, k?

 

I'm convinced this thing is paying me back for years of neglect, went out this past weekend didn't touch a thing but the key and it fired rite up, shut it off and restarted it repeatedly, started great ran great, still throwing a #6 and #11 code. I should be excited but I can't be becouse I know it will pull this no start thing again. I'm frustrated now only becouse its really hard to diagnose a no start issue when it frigging starts. Any way started pulling the plenom to get the injectors out and start checking wires.
Have done a lot of studying in the fsm, the wiring diagrams are Greek to me but I did notice a efi relay it even showed a test for it what I didn't understand was what all it controls, I mean is the fuel pump on that relay etc. Anybody that knows more about this than I do please chime in, I even talked to the service mng at the dealership and he was scratching his head. Hope everyone is having a great week and thanks for checking in.

 

Hello Jason.. Im just checking in. Those no starts are hard to find. But it did run great for awhile? That is great news. I understand the feeling of it might, or probably will come back.

I will try and see if I can understand the relay diagram you are talking about. Might take me a little to get back with you on that. Chef and me were in the Electrical Grimlins club, guess it is your turn. lol

 

Again, not being able to be there.... not knowing EVERYTHING that took place from A-Z... it's hard to do anything but 'guess', especially considering that your 'non-start' issue is not screwing up for ya! lol.

Couple questions;

Do you pull the battery every time you leave? Reason I ask is, ....if you do, the codes should be cleared, and then the ones you're seeing now, 6 and 11, would be new. 11, if I'm not mistaken, is TPS related, right? 6 is AFM? Can't remember. You probably know by now, and anyhow,... my point, which can be important... is, "If you pulled those components, related to the codes, while the battery was still plugged in?" For instance, if you pulled the TPS connector, then let it run, it's GOING TO throw a TPS code.(I'm sure you know all this, but that's irrelevant... part of the P.O.E., right homie? lol)

Also, did you test the TPS and rule out that it's needing adjustment, etc.?

I am, still, not so convinced that it's 'electronic'. If it's gotten better since you've been cycling out this fuel,... then what I would do is drive it around the block several time, up to 30 miles.... to get it to run in the closed loop several minutes.... This way, it wouldn't be risking getting too far away from home, etc. (I apologize if you're not road ready, other than the motor.... that would put a 'moot' on that point... so ignore it if so! lol).

Can't hurt to have the injectors sent off... but I doubt that's part of the 'non-start' issue. Mine had 257K on them, still started fine, still read "Fair" on 3 and "poor" on 1 in the testing at RC Injectors. BUT, if you remember, .... as I put it back together, fired it up... something in the lines IMMEDIATELY clogged up injector #2... And yet, EVEN THEN, it started RIGHT UP, ran as long as I'd let it.... But of course, I had to tear it down again, so why run a hole w/out fire for any period of time, ya know?

You flushed the tank out fairly well, at this point, right?

You've tested the AFM, maybe even swapped in stuff like a working ignitor, right?

Just need a quick checklist of everything you've tried, replaced, etc., like so, ...

1. TPS checks out(or not)
2. AFM checks out(or not)
3. Air Gap and Resistance on Dizzy Secondary Coil
4. Spark in every hole
5. Timing is FOR SURE correct on the chain, mechanical end
6. Timing is set at 5*-8*BTDC
7. CTSensor checks out
8. Fuel Pump engages with the AFM flap engaged
9. etc.

Far as the EFI 3 and EFI 4 relays... they're not too hard to test... it's even in the haynes, I believe(sorry if I missed that one, too... guessing that's what you meant.... The "ROUND" Efi larger fuses in the driver kick panel, right?) They control relay to the fuel pump, ecu, I believe. The efi 15A fuse just breaks power if something's wrong, to avoid blowing those fuses..... which from what I've read, experienced, is EXTREMELY RARE, compared to the EFI 15A plastic fuse. And when that goes, it's usually an electrical issue.

Just to double check... WHEN it doesn't wanna start.... it's turning over, full power, no problems with the STA end of the system, correct? Kinda wanna rule out the IGN system as well, at least with the basics.

Best wishes, ..... WANNA HELP IF I CAN, HOMIE, YOU KNOW ME! lol.

 

hey guys well first off thanks for checking in,
mark I will try and answer ya the best I can remember lol this is getting to be kinda drawn out and I losing track of things but here goes.
pulling the batery, yes if it would start befor I left out most times I pulled the bat.
drained tank added fresh gas.


list of things tested
afm- good also epaced with know working unit
tps-good
secondarycoil-good
csi timer-good
injector resister-good

there may be more things man I think thats it though, as far as the timeing chain I am 100% posative that its right, this thing is running great when it runs, I just dont think the timeimg is an issue anymore. as far as the injectors I agree that they are not part of the no start problem I just think its somthing I should have done and it cant hurt rite lol.
and yes the engine cranks fine all the time.

Ok so on to whats has happened today, went out this evening and she started rite up, let it run for a bit and shut it off restarted a few times no issues at all.
so since I havnt really got much done lately and it was a really nice nite very cool for a change I decided I was tired of trieing to figure out this friggen problem so I looked around the shop and seen the brake parts etc that I bought awhile back, so I decided to finish up my v6 brake up grade, it all went preaty smooth except for braking 2 bolts off in the locking hub assembly on the pas side simple fix becouse I had a spare set of hubs from my parts truck, the bearings looked to be in good shape cleaned em up and repacked them had all the seals except the the gasket for the locking hubs so I will have to pick them up, blead the brakes the pedal feels realy good, so I can mark that off the list woohoo.
and then I wanted to start it up and check the booster AND THE FRIGGEN THING WOULDNT START AGAIN ARRRG ####%%@****%%%$$$#####$$$%%%%$$###@@@#$%%%. I have noticed that when it does this that at first it tried to start it has always done that, tries to start coughs alittle and the nothing any way guess I know what the job is tom.

 

Wow, ... I'm still leaning toward IGNITION-SYSTEM/or/SPARK SUPPLY/or/Injector Voltage is being intermittently cut off..... That could even be something as simple as one of the EFI Relays(not the plastic one... the bigger, round ones, above it). If you go to start it tomorrow, and it WONT... THAT is when you try all the things that you have to, in order to rule out spark/fuel, right?

Out of curiosity... isn't a Code #6 listing "Switch" as a possible issue? I'm sure AFM or whatever it is, is the primary listing... but isn't "SWITCH" there?

Maybe start by, ....leave the key on in the morning for a couple minutes... Try to start it up, but if it doesn't, then right away.... FEEL all the relays related to start up, including the Main EFI #3 and #4 relays... See if they're getting REALLY hot. (I think you said that the COR, AFM are activating the Fuel Pump, even when this is happening.... so I guess you can rule that out?) Listen for them anyhow, right? THEN, if it still isn't starting, try the CSI test one more time? Then you could at least rule out if you're getting fuel to the CSI. The thing that I'm curious about, Jason.... is, the CSI is not enough alone to start the rig...It's just an assist, right? It only lasts for a few seconds, right?>... So, ...maybe it sputters cuz the CSI, at that point, is the only thing trying to start it. There are tests at the ECU for the injectors... No.10 and No.20 pins... and it's pretty simple. You use a multi-meter and it will tell you if they're SENDING voltage to the injectors at all. (The noid test would be good while it's doing it as well, but if you've already got the plenum nearly tore off(?) ) Bottom line, you would need to do that ECU/Injector test while it's givin ya draaaama, ya know?

REALLY SORRY, man!

 

yes mark switch is a posabilaty in that code, any idea what that meens? Im thinking just like you somthing is intermitantly not telling the injectors to open, its realy feeling like a relay to me, where are the ones your speaking of? Im trieing to stay positive but man this is getting aggravating.

 

OH, ...the "EFI-MAIN" relays, 3 and 4, are in the same kick panel fuse plate on the driver side as the 15A fuse for the EFI. I mean, they're 'relays', not fuses... so maybeeeeee, ... I guess anything is possible. I just don't know if those have the capacity to shut off the Injectors. Not sure why you would have an intermittent problem......

Have you tried bypassing the FPR-VSV just for the heck of it? Apparently it started this morning, when cold... and it usuallyyyyy starts when you turn it off and then fire it up again... But seeing that it's like a "wait a FEW MINUTES, then try to restart, NOTHIN" type of thing... I'm still kinda curious on those few things. Can't hurt to check, right?

 

hey mark Im gonna just explain what I have found today, tested both relays checked good and from there I decided okay just pull the friggen plenum, sooooo thats what I did and what a suprise I got I have puddles of fuel in the intake I dont mean hey that looks kinda damp and smells like fuel I mean I looked at it and thought how did all that water get in the intake, then I stuck a shop rag in there and let it soak some up out of one runner smelled it and realized it was gas WTH.
go figure the running rich issue Im lost not that I wasnt before but this is just about to much, I did check the injector wire as well of course they arnt pulseing either. I truely dont know where to turn now.
and sorry for not getting you called back mark I have been in the shop all day till just about an hour ago trying to get things done.

 

Don't get too upset, buddy.... you'll get it, NO DOUBT IN MY MIND!

Sorry, just the same... But this is TELLING! First of all.... I wonder if this fuel is all coming from the CSI?( Doubtful )

Wonder if the fuel, when you're having this non-start problem, is 'igniting' at ALL?(Very possible).

Wonder why, if you're having "Fuel Soak" like that... its' NOT igniting (That's where the list has to start.). And remember... I did this for over a 6 months.... out there every day, for hours, after 12hr days! lol. So I DO know how ya feel... Ya work hard, you want your project to 'GO-GO-GOOOOOOOOO' I feel ya! After testing every sensor, wire, component IN THIS THING.... for months, OVER AND OVER, .... i had to take it in... And to be honest... the guy saved me ANOTHER 6 MONTHS, MOST LIKELY! lol. Actually..... not many do the propane test. But one thing it would tell you, for instance.... "When I balance the air/fuel using propane, unplug the fuel pump..... and then it keeps running and running and running....then you can rule out the ignition components COMPLETELY!"... Things like that.

IT'S CLEARLY not mechanical.... so THAT'S GOOD!

Man, ....how the heck is fuel pooling up in the plenum if the injectors AREN'T firing? Fuel comes to the rail via the banjo to CSI and..... hmmm, could the FPR be blown and allowing full time fuel pressure into the rail, ...then it floods out, doesn't wanna start again? (I'm sure you tested it, can't remember... when it's running, you unplugged the FPR and the idle went up, right?)..... Don't think the Damper would do anything but leak, outward...... Not sure on that one. Could it collapse under certain pressure and stay shut? Probably not, lol.

I'm just not quite sure what to go to next. I'll think on this.

 

Also, ...I think I'm on three threads now, all having the same issue, Jason... or at least VERY similar. One of them even had fuel pouring out when he tore it down. Hmmm. I'm hoping to figure out which ones might relate... you all should talk!lol... And, maybe one of them have figured it out and I didn't see, etc.,...can't be sure, so overwhelmed lately, ya know? Yah.... I know, you know alright..... all to well, I'm sure! lol.

 

Hello Jason..You are over my head on this, but still thought I would give it a shot. I see where said your injectors arent pulsing. I have no clue on that area. But I would say as far as a runner being full of fuel that in some ways it might be a good thing. First it might point you to which injector is causing problems and now you know the rich fuel smell which is from flooding serious and not just a small amount.

I was wondering since you have the plenum off, that if you could hook up your injectors and Cold Start Injector and turn the key on or bump the starter and see which one is possibly staying on. May even have to pull the fuel rail from the intake to test. Might help you find which one is the problem.

This test may not even be possible and like I said this is way over my head. Just trying to offer some kind of help. Even if it did work, I wouldnt know where to start. ECU, relays, or injectors?? But I think still you found something that will help point you in the right direction.

Maybe someone with way more experience can help out, but defintely am curious as to what this problem is.

I forgot my manual yesterday and will see if maybe I can find some thing out for you.
Glad to hear your brake upgrade went well, so there was some progress today.

 

Hey, .... come to think of it, Terry, that's what a buddy I helped with a bit of a 're-rebuild' of some stuff before he fired it up for the first time found... We disconnected the plenum, rebolted up the ground on the intake stud, pulled the injectors out of the intake, turned it over.... NADA! Fuel was POURING out from the "UP TO THE" injectors rear grommet... but basically, they would 'pulse' one time, then NOTHING. We then pulled the Dizzy out a bit, so as to be able to turn the rotor, and each contact when doing so would spark. This eventually let him to the same Guru, at Japanese Auto Center, who did a few tests, then found out his dizzy was 180* off, for one(obviously not your problem, ...yours has been running).... but he then found that, through some special tests he did, the No.10 and No.20 injector points in the ECU were not reading on the other side... but were reading at the ECU... So he ruled out the ECU, tore open the harness, and there he found, right at the joining of the 2-Y Points for the 2 pairs of injectors, a BUNCH of corrosion.... to the point that they were BARELY making contact.

I only mention this because... sometimes, conventional testing, etc., doesn't always locate the gremlins. As with mine, the same guy found, through propane test, my problem was primarily mechanical. My symtoms were also different... Mine started right up, didn't smoke, ran 'GREAT' as long as I was stomping on it,,... and yet, eventually, by the time I got to him, it was REALLY sucking gas, etc. As you know, wound up being the CRAPPY CAM GRIND! lol.

I really feel, just by symptoms, .... your issue would WAY more likely be a result of SOMETHING either shutting off spark at that certain point.... Or the injectors signals are compromised, somehow... Why else would you have so much unburned/unused fuel. I suppose something could be just continuously running on while you're turning it over, flooding out(which they're not supposed to do).... but why, then, wouldn't that fuel be getting sucked into the intake, POPPED, then out the exhaust. Smokey or not, .... it would at least tell us that; "While you're having this problem, the ignition system is functioning properly and FIRING the fuel, however rich". Obviously, you need more than vapor to run these things, lol.(You've seen how that CSI JETS! LOL)

Does that make sense?^^^ I'm not saying it's time to tear the IGN system apart... But it just really is hard to understand why, even with fuel, NONE of it is getting burned off! And then, suddenly, it runs again? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Yeah, I think the injector test isn't a bad idea... especially since it's apart. But really?>>> You're not even getting PULSE/POWER to the connectors???? That's sounding, like I was saying before, either IGN or No.10/No.20 related. Seems like, when they ARE firing.... they're flooding out, maybe not even suppressed by the FPRegulator.... Damper... who knows, ..but bottom line, either too much fuel is running on after you kill it..(key on, whatever)... and possibly causing a "shut down"not sure how, ...(I would think it would at least sputter away, TRYING too burn off the fuel, via VAPOR).... Or, for some reason, when you go to restart, .... you're either not getting spark or the injectors are just refusing to fire. (You said when it does this you have PLENTY of spark, right?)

Sorry to ramble... just trying to think it all out, out loud, as to keep ya/us all/ thinking! lol.

 

Does anybody know how long the csi is supposed to operate that is the only way I see getting that kind of fuel in the intake.