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Well, I dug around for some time and I seem to have come across what MAY be the wiring setup that I have. You can see this has the same issue with the high current line for the starter relay being spliced from the relay switch line. This diagram was labeled 1989 to 1992 4runner v6. I fall in that range. Also I bet the 9 volts leaking into the system is from the 'circuit opening relay' or the ECU...?
I am bummed.
After I replaced the 14 gauge wire with a 12 gauge I was fully expecting my starter issues to go away. Alas, it did not. Of course I have ruled out wiring at this point because I am certain I have a good 25 amps or more going to the solenoid. I went to start it when cold yesterday and click click. There is a difference though, the click is solid and loud. Before the click was faint. I had mostly ruled out my starter being the problem... About 3 years ago I was having this intermittent issue and I put in a fresh battery and it went away for a few weeks. THen it started again. Then I changed the starter, I removed a Napa remand unit only 3 years old and installed the one from my 95 donor with 150k miles. Seemed to work for a while again. Soon enough the intermittent click no start started again. I have been living with it until recently when it got really bad and I started this process here.
In efforts to diagnose the issue further, I put the leads on the high current wire to the starter motor and attempted to crank. WHen I got the CLICK no start the volts went from 12.35 (same as at battery terminals) to 11.6. This told me that the starter motor is NOT being engaged. After few clicks the starter engaged and the volts went momentarily to 10.5 and quickly to 13+ as engine started.
At this point I was thinking, ok, solenoid is getting plenty of power so it SHOULD work... screw it, new starter time.
Did I miss anything folks? I'll remove my starter and mess with the solenoid if I can take it apart. I rather properly repair one myself then keep buying remanned ones that don't work!
If the solenoid is clicking but not spinning it's likely that your contacts are worn. You can get new contacts on Amazon for under $20, generic kit should work fine. You can rule out wiring leading to starter by hotwiring the solenoid directly to power, on some engines you can jump with a screwdriver across the hot and solenoid terminals, can't remember about this specific engine. On an old Kohler I was working on recently I isolated solenoid by using a length of 10 gauge wire from scrap jumper cables, one end clamped to battery+, other end pushed against solenoid terminals (wear gloves, it gets hot). If it cranks then your issue is relay or wiring, if it clicks but doesn't spin, the contacts inside solenoid aren't making contact well enough - when the electromagnet pulls them forward (which is the click you hear) it complete another circuit with copper contacts which makes the starter spin. Click at starter but no spin = solenoid rebuild. At least 9x+ out of 10, I suppose in theory you could have a short in the starter windings but not something I've ever seen or even heard of.
If the solenoid is clicking but not spinning it's likely that your contacts are worn. You can get new contacts on Amazon for under $20, generic kit should work fine. You can rule out wiring leading to starter by hotwiring the solenoid directly to power, on some engines you can jump with a screwdriver across the hot and solenoid terminals, can't remember about this specific engine. On an old Kohler I was working on recently I isolated solenoid by using a length of 10 gauge wire from scrap jumper cables, one end clamped to battery+, other end pushed against solenoid terminals (wear gloves, it gets hot). If it cranks then your issue is relay or wiring, if it clicks but doesn't spin, the contacts inside solenoid aren't making contact well enough - when the electromagnet pulls them forward (which is the click you hear) it complete another circuit with copper contacts which makes the starter spin. Click at starter but no spin = solenoid rebuild. At least 9x+ out of 10, I suppose in theory you could have a short in the starter windings but not something I've ever seen or even heard of.
Thanks for hanging on and helping along. Yes, my next task is to remove starter and inspect.
If I remember correctly and in fact I have the starter from the 95 donor I will install new contacts if they turn out to be bad.
I have tested the electrical system. With my relay setup I am confident that the solenoid is getting good solid current. I want to finish my roof rack before I dig out the starter. Ill post on that progress soon.
So making this thread to complete my starter issue resolution.
A quick reminder of the problems, yes, plural, I had double trouble! I had both an intermittent solenoid engagement AND an intermittent starter engagement and each caused by their respective simple problems. By this point I had already installed new relay and wiring to the solenoid and my solenoid was good.
I had to rebuild my starter solenoid contacts. I called around the parts stores and the dealers and everyone told me these parts are no longer available! I was not very happy. I dug out my 1995 donor trucks starter and the contacts in that (original OEM part!) were not that great. The contacts inthe NAPA replacement that was on my truck (only 5 years old) was even worse. I tested both starters on the bench and sure enough there is intermittent starter engagement. So, I went to the parts store and purchased a remanufactured one. On my way home I regretted that decisions, a regret that was soon proven well. The remanned unit was sad...
In the pic below, to the left is is the plunger from the remanned unit. It's in worse condition than the one from NAPA which is an original OEM part that was rebuilt. To be fair by this pic I had cleaned the NAPA one, no sanding, just cleaning. AND, the contact plate is BENT on the new one.. what the hell?? I was pissed. And this put a light builb on over my head.
I saw that I had two contacts that were not terrible gone, one in each of the older units. So, I took the two contacts and made sure they were ground down and of equal thickness.
This is what the worse ones looked like.
Very suspect solder job in my NAPA one. And wow, so much dirt!
The NAPA and OEM units side by side. Interesting thing here... on the NAPA one (right) the gears are cut at an angle on the top. I imagine this is ti aid in engaging the flywheel... But the OEM does not have this.So NAPA adds this cut during the reman.
Well, once the contacts were in, I bench tested it and had no more intermittent starts. I must have hit that 30 times and I got 30 starter engagements. I did not want to put in on the car and have to remove it again for 5 more years!!
Thanks again to people here and yotatech for the information that helped me diagnose and rebuild the starter contacts!
Glad you got it going. Parts are def still available if you or others need in future, # for side contacts is 28226-72080 plunger also has contacts part # 28235-35080 but cheaper route is go on Amazon and search for starter rebuild kit and buy the one that's for Denso. They're comparable to OEM, I've gone both ways
Glad you got it going. Parts are def still available if you or others need in future, # for side contacts is 28226-72080 plunger also has contacts part # 28235-35080 but cheaper route is go on Amazon and search for starter rebuild kit and buy the one that's for Denso. They're comparable to OEM, I've gone both ways
Thanks for the info, I figured the dealer parts guy was guessing. lol.
The whole family got sick as hell and all last weekend I couldnt do much. Oh well. Here is my progress with the roof rack.
It came out almost as I had pictured it in my head. I really like it, it was soo much fab work but once it is all together it's hard to tell how much work it was. I took my time so it comes out square and level and doesn't give the car a permanent tilted look. lol.
Raptor liner paint on the parts. Assembled most of it and put 2nd lite coat on. Front lightbar came in CaliRaised single row, 28k lumens. Looks and feels really nice! Making brackets. This took a while to get right. The bar was 43 inches and my rack is 40 inches. I wish there was a 39 inch bar to fit in the middle of the rack, oh well. Came out well I think drilled and bolted up! And then... wiring... ohhh gosh lot's and lots of wiring. In the end I had three wires running to the roof. One for rear lights and two for the front bar. The front bar has two circuits, one for the white lights and one for the amber. I ran the roof wires under the roof liner to the A-pillar down to the right foot well. Drilled into the wheel well area and ran into engine bay. I did not want to take stuff off to go through firewall. I put connectors on the three lights so I can remove them if need be without wiring work. It added lots of tedious work but worth it! The harness for the rear light bars result Result I like it. I am trying to decide if I want to drill holes down the roof rack rails or not. I think they will be useful.
Work remaining is finish wiring in the switches inside the car. Clean up the wiring and install wire loom. Not much
Hey everyone I am giving away the stock roof rack stuff. Free pickup or pay for delivery. First come first serve. Will go in recycle bin soon if no takers . I don't think anything is broken.
I finally got the idler arm built and hit the road for some chores. I noticed some very odd and dangerous steering characteristics. Steering in either direction, but much worse when steering to the right, it would start normal and then take a big dip. For example, if I am steering very little to keep her goign straight in the lanes, no problem, but as I turn wheels to the right to change lanes, it seems to grab and steer hard, jerk, to the right.
First I thought my alignment must be the issue since I replaced all the tie rods. Got the alignment and still about the same. Been racking my heads trying to determine if the somewhat changed geometry is causing this issue. At the moment, my idler arm end of the center link is about 2 inches lower than the pitman arm side. I took some measurements and made some sketches and determined the difference in angles is exceptionally small. I suppose as small as the difference is, it COULD be the cause? If so, leveling my center link with a drop pitman arm will fix that problem.
Meanwhile, I think atleast part of the cause, if not all, could be the terribly worn out IFS control arm bushings.
These are some pictures of what I spent most of the afternoon doing. One down, 3 more to go :/
Oh boy, I have made a lot of progress since my last post. I will post an update with pictures and few words.
First, finished that holly mess. Young kids screwed up the alignment though and it isn't good, but I am confident once I get it done (Covid 19 is in the way) It will be good About 1000 posts ago on this thread I talked about doing this. Making my own low profile, but more importantly 1 inch drivetrain lift. Step 1, make a mockup. Step two, finish mockup Step 3, run out of steel and can't get anymore because nothing is open! Then, finally found a good deal on this!! But, needed a place to install. No space in hood. May as well get to that cargo drawer you had been planning forever Some parts are delivered. more stuff is delivered Making a harness (threw several additional wires in there for ease future growth. Buy some felt. Install some felt. Run out of plywood!! :? Find old inverter, it's not heavy! Install for fun! FIgure out that complicated ARB compressor harness. Wiring diagram is only for use with two solenoids... hmmm. Test, success! Clean up wires. Order oddyssey battery less than 7 inches high. Take off dash parts. Remove rear window defrost button. Be confused at the too many wires going into the defrost switch, do research to make sure you are not disabling other circuits. 90% sure you aren't? Good enough. Take 5 hrs to run new wires from back to front, through dash. Go do yoga, come back and do more wiring. Install dual voltage gauge, Install ARB rocker switch in stock rear defrost switch location. Run out of toggle switches, temporarily install dinky one... (that switch is to manually open and close relay circuit connecting and disconnecting dual batteries,
I also wanted to talk about the functionality of the compressor and eventually how I want to plumb that nylon air hose kit into the 4Runner permanently. I want to have a connection at each wheel and the central air pressure regulator for both deflating and inflating. I also wanted to not have to uncover the compressore everytime I needed to use it. Thus... I installed two switches that control the circuit, on that you saw in the front dash and the other in the rear. I didn't have a pic of it but beside the USB/12 volt outlet/voltage indicator in the rear there is another switch.
The inverter was so much lighter than I remembered, 1500 watt and it was enough to run my variable speed angle grinder. Perfect. Installed. Compressor and inverter are both hot running items, so I installed a fan that you can't see in any of the pics to draw air out. It's from my stash of old computer parts.
For the dual batter, I looked into those fancy automatic charging and disconnect setups. The only thing I need from those is that they won't let both batteries drain together. Otherwise it is always going to be charging both batteries and I didn't want that. I just sold my 2010 Audi A4 and this will be my daily driver (along with my FZ09) so I don't want to put that load on the alternator all the time. Instead, I have a 250 amp relay installed. That's what that temporary switch is for. The real switch will allow for me to manually switch to connect the batteries or not. I have run a 0-gauge welding wire between the two batteries and have tested to confirm that if my main batt dies the rear battery will easily jump and start the car. ONLY CATCH is that the relay has to be able to be powered by either the front or rear batteries. lol. Therefore the double pole double throw switch that I need.
Overall I am very happy with the outcome thus far. Once I get some more plywood I will finish the rear drawer cabinet work. I don't plan on carrying my big tool and supply chest anymore, instead will organize the stuff into the drawer system.
I made all this as lightweight as possible. The plywood I have cut where needed and built the box with absolute minimal parts. I made cutouts where applicable and used thick aluminum base for only one rail instead of both. Odd, but works very well. Heavy items are Battery 38 lb, compressor ~20lb, drawer sliders ~ 10 lbs. About another 30 lb for plywood. Maybe 10 lbs of wiring! I figure I added about 110lb, which is a lot for daily driving. I plan on continuing to use the motorcycle most often, so I am not too worried. BUT, I will be removing some stuff from my gear that I won't need anymore as well.
Just finished the rear cargo drawer and platform work. I found some good looking vinyl from home Depot. Its too thick though and after killing my hands all day I wasnt wasnt able to get nice clean edges still. But looks pretty good. Also, heavy.
I like what you came up with for your drawer install! Your son looks almost like he could fit in the drawer!
May have to look at that vinyl tomorrow. Definitely needed to have something non skid for my Husky, maybe a 2nd one soon.
I scrapped my first attempt at a new, low profile tranny crossmember. I had a better idea and decided to redo it. And, I finally finished it today. I didn't try to mimic the stock angles and such because I decided it isn't necessary. In fact, next item is undercarriage protection and having it the way I built it will help with that.
I'll let the pictures do the talking now. Lining up the holes was such a pain. Then, after I got that spot on I welded the extra protection and gussets at the joints, which slightly changed the geometry. Enough to ruin my perfect hole alignment I also built in a 1.5inch drivetrain lift to compensate for the 1.5inch body lift. My transfer case shifter works well again Because I suck, I didn't take a good before pic. But, if you know 4Runners you know this is a huge improvement! I measured the before clearance, I can't find it though. lol.
To be honest, this can be a pretty easy product to manufacture at a decent shop. I am surprised we don't have any options. (Manual tranny's have SOME options)
Jan 7, 2020 | 09:34 AM
