YotaJam 2003 is CANCELLED! Please spread the word.

Two months ago, when planning was really getting underway for this event, I spoke to "Mike" at the Naches Ranger District (lhiler@fs.fed.us) and gave him an accurate description of what we had planned, fewer than 75 people, dispersed camping for some and others coming and going through the weekend. He said at that time that no permit would be required for our event and directed me to a web page (http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/permits/broch.htm) that detailed the rules for when a permit was required. According to that page, as long as this was a "Club Outing" and was attended by fewer than 75 people and we did not charge any fees, we were in the clear. That position was confirmed on the 19th of this month when I described our situation to another ranger suring our Naches pre-run and got the same reply.

Yesterday I received an email from Mike (lhiler@fs.fed.us), after he had viewed the registration site and in which he stated the following:

"I am writing this note from the Naches Ranger Station here in Naches. I
manage Special use permits for the Naches District, Wenatchee National
Forest, US Forest Service, and as of today, we have no permit on file for
your planned event on Naches Pass Trail, Crow Creek, or Little Naches.
Please call me Wednesday, July 30 and let me know the scope of your event
so I can notify you of your options. My phone number is 509-653-2205,
extension 247. I have a meeting from 8:00am to 10:00am and from 11:00 to
12:00. Afternoon is the best time to call. If you haven't gotten hold of
me by the end of the day I will be at my desk 0700 to 0800 on Thursday"

I wrote Mike (lhiler@fs.fed.us) back and reminded him that we had spoken and again described our event as fewer than 75 people, no money changing hands, etc. I just received his response. He states that he ran the event by the head ranger of the Naches District, Randall Shepard (rdshepard@fs.fed.us) and that suddenly now our event would require a permit, but they will not be issuing us one.

"...Your internet site I have pulled clearly demonstrates that your event is
organized and that you are providing the service of organizing those
activities for participants who are signing up. Our Ranger's advice, after
reviewing the web-site, is that you do not have a permit for an event which
clearly must be authorized by a permit and we are advising you not to hold
the event. Holding the event puts you at risk of receiving a Federal
Notice of Violation. I am replying on the internet for the sake of a
speedy return but if you need an official reply from the District Ranger
(Randall Shepard) he will be glad to get you direction. There is no way at
this point that a permit can be issued."
Obviously we cannot proceed under these conditions.

As I write this, I am so pissed off that I am shaking. I intend to continue to protest this abrupt about face by the people who are supposed to be managing our public lands for the use of the public, via email and phone calls to the higher ups in the Forest Service and to those bodies who oversee the management of the Forest Service. In the event that you feel the same way, I would encourage you write or call those who are responsible. Their homepage is located at http://www.fs.fed.us/ and the decisions were made by the "Naches District, Wenatchee National Forest, US Forest Service" of which Randall Shepard (rdshepard@fs.fed.us) is the District Ranger.

Sorry folks, this is not what any of us had planned and along, up until yesterday the Forest Service has maintained that we were good to go.

-Rob

 

I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS!!
How in the hell can they just turn around and decide that, "Oh it looks like they are too organized".
We fall under every rule that does not require a ˟˟˟˟˟˟IN' permit!
I would like to know what there definition of a "CLUB OUTING" means!

 

I think I can help with that definition;

From the Forest Sevice document "FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS REGARDING NONCOMMERCIAL GROUP USES ON NATIONAL FOREST SYSTEM LANDS";

"Examples of noncommercial activities include club or family recreation outings, reunions, and weddings. No permit fee, bonding, or insurance is required for noncommercial group uses. "

 

Yes I read that in the FAQ section. However I cannot find any information on there sites to support there final decision to "NOW" require a freakin' permit.
THIS IS BULL˟˟˟˟!!!

 

I think im still gonna go camping but not up there to be hassled by those dikheds. Im gonna go up to the Enchantment National Forest above Leavenworth if anyone is interested. Its very cool up there to camp, ive never been offroading though. Ben

 

I also still wanted to thank Rob for trying to make YJ03 work. You tried man thats all you could do!

 

Thanks for the props! But in all fairness, many worked behind the scenes to try to make it a memorable event.

Gene
Smegal
Shane
Corey
Crash

...and so many others.

I guess it will be a memorable event, just not in the way we had hoped.

 

It is complete BS. I think the only reason they are going back on their word is that they have the wrong image of us in their heads. They probably envision the "typical" wheeler...tossing beer cans out the side as they go.

What a bunch of azzclowns - pardon my slang.

Jim

 

Thankyou all of you guys for trying.

 

Are there any private campgrounds in the area you can use?

They can't do anything to you just for driving through the forest in groups. They can restrict overnight camping though. Camp outside the forest.

 

hey thanks for everyone that tried to make this work. as i sit here i have to wonder what kind of a state are we living in. this is ˟˟˟˟˟. and i am pissed off like no other, how are they going to repay me for my time and money of trying to rush to get stuff done, or the time i took off work?!?!?!?!!
yeah im pissed off.....

Im thinking though, just as an unorganized event.....mabey i will go 4x4'ing on the 31st 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th, anyone that wants to come is inveted. j/k

man this really blows....

friggin ranger......

wade
aka. pissed off.

 

I got it, lets put Jeep emblems on our Toys and sneak in with our engines off rolling in neutral. yeah right! They will issue tickets one way or another, their scandless! <~~Thats what they look like!

 

Wow. i must say... rob got us all good that time, didnt he!

WHEW... good joke rob.

it was a joke.... right

 

Hey it will cost to camp out but the Enchantments are where im going on the 2nd until 3rd. The Enchantment Nat. Forest is very nice. Ive never offroaded up there but thats what exploring new trails is all about. Anyone that wants to meet up there is invited. Above Leavenworth August 2nd to the 3rd.

 

Sorry Man, I truly wish it was...

 

Rob, et al.

Thanks for your efforts and don't blow a fuse. That doesn't do you any good.

Rules are rules, but they should be clear enough that people can understand them and they shouldn't change at will.

Unfortunately, the government, like most other large bureaucracies (including the private company I work for) won't stand behind anything a member of the bureaucracy says unless it written down and blessed by the right person in authority (usually defined as someone higher than the person who said whatever is in question).

I don't see any problems according to what I've seen on the link you provided, and I'd definitely be interested in hearing a real explanation of how this "organizing" activity they refer to means you need a permit. There is no such thing as a group activity of any kind without some sort of organizing. Maybe they are afraid that someone will complain so they came up with an excuse at the last minute.

Alan

 

Wise words Alan.

Interestingly enough, I just got off the phone with Shane, who is out at the planned site of the event. He says that there was a group of 100 camped all weekend in that location. He knows, because he talked to the last of them as they were leaving and he was arriving. They did not have any problems.

So I can't help but wonder what set them on us. I have spent most of the evening pouring over the fs bylaws and I am unable to figure out why we are even on their radar. We fall below all the attendance thresholds, there is no way to feasibly call us a commercial event and it was not a "public" event where the general public was alerted via advertising and invited to attend/spectate.

All I can see is an arbitrary decision by a ranger backed up with a threat. That is why I am hopeful that appealing to a higher authority will at least provide some explanation.

 

On your cancellation email you sent us there is a site to visit. Is it ok for us to fill out the survey on the matter or would you rather we let you look into this?

 

At this point, there are not many avenues available to me. We can call their bluff and hope that is just what it is or we can retreat and appeal the decision, which doesn't really help us this weekend. The problem is that if it is not a bluff, then the consequences are pretty severe. A federal rap for something like failing to obey a ranger can follow you around for a really long time...

So, if you choose to write, I would certainly agree with that decision as your right to self expression.

 

Ive always heard about Cle Elum and its famous offroading areas. Ever heard much about any of that? I still really want to go but alike many others am not interested in paying fines. If hes got a ticket book and a pen he's ogtta be willing to write tickets.