zerokelvin

annnnd more.

zerokelvin

Those are brand new plugs after a few days of trying to start the truck, 1-4 from left to right.

RAD4Runner

P.O. hacked the wiring, bypassed the C.O.R. so even without it fuel pump runs.
BTW, is that a broken green wire?
That provides ground when there is air-flow and AFM contact is closed to keep C.O.R. energized....



Now here are more points to consider (need input form other members)...
1) Noid light pulses, indicating ECU pulses injectors. However, IF ECU #10 wire (W-R) OR #20 wire (W) is broken but all injector pin 1's are connected to the intact ECU wire, noid light would still pulse but visually we could not tell that one of the ECU wires is broken.

2) Ignitor wiring was also hacked or broken so there is no spark when ign key is released (goes back to IGN ON = position 2).




That's just a disconnect for the "B" alt-to-batt wire. A useless part that adds another possible point of failure. I got rid of mine when I upgraded Alt-to-Batt wire, etc.

zerokelvin

Ok, so the wire/s that you see there that look broken are actually CUT. I don't know what they (there are two, see pic) go to or are for, one is green with a black stripe and the other is grey with a red stripe? color blind \o/. I did trace them back a bit and they go into a fat cluster of wires on the passenger kick panel wall/body just inside and in front of the door hinges. They don't go to the COR cuz there are 5 prongs and the plug has 5 wires. Any idea where they originally went. The look just plain cut and left.

zerokelvin

Just tested this COR for resistance. I hooked a 9V battery to the COR and used my DMM set to 200 ohm to measure resistance. Reading came back steady 1.7 What does that mean?

zerokelvin

Found out how to test resistances of the Circuit Open Relay (COR) without power as well, this is what I found:

SHOULD BE:
STA - E1 = 17 - 25 ohms
+B - Fc = 88 - 132 ohms
+B - Fp = Infinite ohms (i.e. open circuit) w/ relay off
+B - Fp = 0 ohms w/ relay on

TESTED AT:
STA - E1 = 22.1
+B -Fc =107.6
+B -Fp = Infinite ohms with relay OFF/no power
+B -Fp = 1.7 ohms with relay ON/ has power

I don't know what the values mean, but here they are. Question is; is this relay bad, need to be replaced? I still have to figure out where/how the COR was by passed so the fuel pump runs all the time... don't want to die in a FIERY crash.

gsp4life

Pull the passenger kick panel (2 recessed Phillips screws) and that's the ECU. Find which port(s) the cut wires connect to and then check the manual to see exactly what was modified by the PO.

I think what all the numbers mean is that the COR maybe tests good, but has 1.7ohms resistance which it's not supposed to have. Did you tests just the prongs of the relay? If so, I'd suspect it's built up electrical resistance and needs replaced.

zerokelvin

Thanks for the input. I did check the ECU and all wires are as they should be as well as all the plugs in the area from the wiring harness, etc. The cut wires come from a large bundle along the passenger side wall behind the ECU mounting area. See pictures. I agree, the COR test values all are within spec, however when powered it's reading 1.7ohm resistance which should be ZERO or extremely close to zero, like .00003. It is likely bad and will be replaced. Again, the COR operates the fuel pump, so it turns off and I don't die in a fiery crash. The no run condition is produced by NO SPARK after engine starts. I'd like to find out HOW that is happening.

zerokelvin

Sorry, here are the edited photos for clarity.

RAD4Runner

Good job testing the COR. But I havent seen a COR go bad in our forum.
Try lower resistance range on meter, and touch test leads to see if 1.7 ohms is just resistance of test leads, etc.

They both look green to me
Also need a schematic for 1985 2RE, because they could vary a little between years. One posted above is for 1988 23RE.

zerokelvin

here's the other one

akwheeler

How did you determine this?
Are you sure it isn't the fuel injectors being shut off?
did you try getting it to start and trying to keep it running with starting fluid? did you have a timing light on it and saw the ignition shut off?

zerokelvin

akwheeler,
I determined this through elimination and observation. Details follow:
injectors were ultra sonic cleaned, tested (possitive) for function and balanced by a professional. injector output changed from 175 (average) CC/60 second interval TO 204 (average) CC/60 second interval. Tested plugs to injectors with noid testers, all measured 12.x Volts and light pulses on noid testers.
Started truck while spraying starting fluid into throttle body, truck still dies ONLY when key is returned to ON/RUN position.
Tested spark plugs; key in the start position, all plugs fire and continue to fire as long as I hold key in start position. When key is returned to ON/RUN position, all plugs lose spark. For the sake of thoroughness, I also started the truck and continued to hold key in the start position, knowing it can cause damage to flywheel and starter.... truck CONTINUES to run.
As soon as key is returned to ON/RUN position, truck dies.
Injectors removed and visually inspected while cranking and AFTER key is returned to ON/RUN position, injectors continue to fire.
The previous owner bypassed the CO Relay so fuel pump runs in the ON/RUN position (it's not supposed to do this). This bypass keeps fuel pressure in the rail and injectors firing as long as the key is in the ON/RUN and/or START positions.

I'm working with several people OFF the forums as well and they are all telling me it's electrical. Something is killing the ignition after start... just gotta track it down. Thank you for the input and help. Hope this information helps you help me =]

zerokelvin

RAD,
Thanks again for more posts, you've been very helpful. I did what you asked and the leads touching produce 2.2 ohm reading. I don't know if the COR is bad, it was just the numbers I got. I also hooked a 9V battery to it, not 12V... I should probably do that to see if I get different numbers.
The diagram could be the wrong one. I got it from autozone's website. It read that was the correct testing diagram for my part number 90987-04002 (COR). Just took apart the plugs that connect to the igniter so I could test the wires directly and checked resistance. They all read 12.x ohms.

zerokelvin

akwheeler,

There is also unburned fuel and oil exiting the exhaust (I only have the header and down pipe/O2 sensor installed), which may indicate non firing cylinders.

zerokelvin

Tested AFM to make sure it was working correctly, here are the results and the link to where I got the information for testing:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AFM/index.shtml

SHOULD BE
0. Vb-Vc ~100
1. E2-Vs = 20-400
2. E2-Vc = 100-300
3. E2-Vb = 200-400
4. E2-Tha = 2k-3k @ 20'C (68'F)
5. E1-Fc = infinite/open
TESTED VALUES
0. 100.5
1. 260
2. 179.8
3. 279
4. 1996 @ 74'F (resistance goes down as temp rises)
5. 007 (is this equal to infinite or open? failed?)

Additional checks and conditions.
1. Test 3 should equal test 2+ 0. (279=179.8 +100.5)
2. Test 1 should be less than test 2. (260<179.8) This fails spec according to this test.

SHOULD BE: Plate opening tests
1. E1-Fc< infinite/open when door is fully closed
zero/short in ANY open position
2. E2-Vs< 20-400 when fully closed
20-1000 when closed to open

TESTED VALUES:
1. 004. This value never changed from fully closed to ANY open position (failed? 004 is not infinite or zero?)
2. 331 when fully closed
600-1300 when opened (1300 mark was about half way open)

Questions I'd like answered:
1. Do I have a bad AFM?
2. Can the AFM STOP spark after engine starts and key is in the ON/RUN position?

The service manual also explains that if I have check all components (coil, distributor cap, rotor, spark plug wires and fuel system) and they are within tolerance, the IGNITER is highly suspect for no start, hard to start, idles roughly, STALLS.
Do I have a bad igniter? Can the engine START with a bad igniter then die when in the ON/RUN position?

THANKS look forward to input on these tests and questions.

zerokelvin

Another update:

So I tested every plug, fuse, relay, wire I could... didn't find anything wrong. Started replacing parts (I know it's not the way to trouble shoot, but I've been fortunate to find some really good deals on ebay that I can just sell back AND make a profit if they don't fix the issue, gotta love sellers that don't know the value of items and list it without researching prices first \o/). Changed out the igniter and the coil... still no run so it's not those. I have a new ECU coming and if that doesn't work I'm going to replace the entire wiring harness. I haven't found where the P.O. changed the wiring yet. It looks like it's in the harness itself as it's been clearly cut and re-wrapped with electrical tape. I also have a AFM coming as I think something is wrong with mine. It failed one of the tests and it's responsible with the ECU for controlling the engine running. I'll keep posting as I swap and check components.

rubronthroad

zerokelvin

So, still not running. Got the new ECU, still not running. Purchased a new distributor because the bearing in mine has failed... only took 33 years. With new distributor... still not running.
I spoke with a guy that used to work for toyota as a service mechanic from 1981 to 2000. Said he has worked on a bazillion of these and knows them very well. He said it's an ignition problem.
He told me some stuff I didn't know, perhaps someone here will know what to do with the information; The ignition switch has TWO hot leads. One is used during cranking/starting, and the other is used AFTER start to keep the engine running.
He said I should look at the 2nd one, that it sounds like it doesn't have power... so I have no spark in the run position. Perhaps it's a fuel delivery problem as well. I'm going to remove ALL the injectors... oh joy \o/. Get to take apart the entire intake.
Once I test them and they come back good they can be eliminated. I have been told by many that they have never had a wiring harness issue, even though they are old... so perhaps it's not in the harness. IDK what to do... this is sick.

RAD4Runner

Yes, two hot leads. IG1 and IG2. Both are on when IGN is on and stay on when you release the key. That does not explain why you would hear, feel, smell combustion (fuel+air+spark) while cranking but you cease same when you release the key.
But to check... here:




Those many are full of S***T.