gsp4life

That valve cover filter might be causing a vacuum leak. Did you have the same problem when you used the stock vent hose?

zerokelvin

I have not tried with the stock vent hose. My understanding of the PVC is that it just vents valve cover gases and is not part of the injection, ignition or fuel delivery system so I don't think that's the problem.
I did just get off the phone with my uncle, he's an incredible mechanic and tuner... he's built his own 2 stroke engine redesigned to be better than old 2 stoke engines. He like my older brother don't have much time for me.. but he finally got back to me.
He told me to test spark, which I already did, but he asked me to look at something specifically, which has narrowed the problem I believe to one thing. When I have the tester in line on cylinder 1, and am cranking the engine and it starts... the light is flashing. When I let off the key back to the on position, the engine dies. If I continue to crank it even though it won't start, the light continues to flash.
He said that "something" is killing the ignition after start. SO..... what the hell on this truck can kill the ignition? Why would it kill ignition and under what conditions? What conditions need to be met in order to CONTINUE ignition? We're getting close buds... post your thoughts and/or knowledge.

old87yota

Edit: There is no clutch safety switch on 1985 and earlier Trucks and 4Runners.

You never know what the previous owner(s) may have done to the wiring so anything is possible.

The fuel pump should not be running if you just turn the key to the ON position without starting, however, if what you are hearing is the fuel pump, your wiring has been messed with, there is something wrong with the air flow meter switch, there is an issue with the Circuit Opening Relay OR there is a jumper still installed in the fuel pump check connector.

Are you 100% sure the injectors are firing?

After cranking and attempting to start, you can remove the spark plugs and see if they look wet and smell like fuel.

zerokelvin

I found out that they started putting in clutch start cancel switches or whatever in 1986. This is a 1985 4runner (build late 1984) and does not have a clutch safety switch. This is confirmed by the truck actually starting (even though it dies shortly after) when not pressing the clutch. I may have used the "ON" position incorrectly but I'm not sure. There are 3 positions to my understanding, what they are called I am not sure. 1st position is key in and 1 click forward. This turns on power to radio, windows, etc. 2nd position is 2 clicks forward and turns on the lights like check engine, etc in the cluster AND turns on my fuel pump. 3rd position is 3 clicks or positions forward and will crank, start, etc the truck. I thought the "ON" position was 2 clicks forward but again, perhaps I am using the terms incorrectly. Is the ON position just 1 click forward? If it is, then the pump is NOT on in this position. I'd really like to know what kills the ignition and why, when, how, etc. Thanks

RAD4Runner

LOL! 2-Banana job for our generation, 10-banana for newer trucks.

Good job testing!

Not dumb questions. Dumb is doing something you're not sure about before asking questions - LOL!

On 1986 onwards yes, need to depress the clutch so the pedal mechanism hits the clutch safety switch to provide ground to starter relay. Ign switch ST1 contact provides 12V to starter relay.

To get closer to fuel pump, fold right rear seat bottom up, and access through opening under the carpet. (I cut out the carpet on mine for easy access.
Yes, sounds like your fuel pump is running. P.O. could have jumped the FP test connector (below), or your C.O.R. is stuck closed or bypassed.
(THAT IS FINE FOR TROUBLESHOOTING PURPOSE, BUT IS SAFETY HAZARD WHEN USED DAILY):


I think 4 of those wires are for the 4WD and Reverse indicator light. Those are the wires I mentioned that do not really have to go through that crowded and inhospitable area under the intake manifold. I would run them up toward the charcoal canister then long the inner right fender, because they eventually end up there anyway.

I hate you! LOL!

You got that right.
1 is accessories,
2 is Ignition ON: Ignition, ECU, EFI / Fuel pump, starter, AC, turn signal systems are powered up ready to go.
3 is crank or start position. When key is released, it returns to IGN ON.

old87yota

What?? How did I not know this.

Boy was I wrong......

I guess this is what happens when you assume things!

Thou Shalt not Post Without Looking up Correct Wiring Diagrams!

zerokelvin

Thank you for the reassurance Rad, that I'm on the right track. Just got off the phone with my uncle and he says he knows what wrong 100%. This is what he told me and what I need to do.... just have to figure out HOW to do it because he doesn't have time to walk me through it.
1. The problem is the ignition. After truck starts and key is released to position #2, the igniter->coil->distributor->spark plugs now have NO POWER.... and the engine dies because.... no power=no spark=no run.
2. I need to restore power to the ignition system when the key is in position #2 after truck has started. For some reason, it loses power after it returns to position #2.

zerokelvin

Rad,
I don't have rear seats as they were used to carry toxic waste or something and I threw them out, along with the seatbelts and all brackets. The carpet is also cut straight across just behind the two front seats. I know the panel you're talking about.. gives you quick easy access to the top of the gas tank =]
Here are a couple other things not working that are minor, but I'd like to have working.

1. Hi-beams on brand new LED lights- Hooked up through an after market harness that connects to original headlight plug, + power with it's own fuse and has two grounds for both lights... and of course two plugs for the new lights to plug into. Lights turn on fine both running and main beams, but Hi's won't turn on.
2. There is a wire on the A/C pump that is small with a flat connector that curls inward on both ends (looks like ONE small flat thing can plug into it and is about 6mm wide). The check engine light code I got (11 flashes, 5 sec pause, repeats) is for the A/C according to a document I found. What plugs into this wire on the A/C pump?

zerokelvin

Just installed brand new ignition switch. Two plugs down the steering column, one by the key and the circular turn key switch. Truck still won't start. Same symptoms..... getting tired of this.

old87yota

Did you test the ignition switch before replacing it to confirm that it is 100% bad?

Before replacing more parts, lets figure out (with RAD's excellent electrical diagnostic skills) what is the problem 100%.

gsp4life

Here's the best shot I could get of the a/c compressor wire. That blue and yellowish connector stick right out of the main harness as it bends around under the intake.

I can't be of any help with the much more important ignition problem because mine hasn't failed yet, so I haven't been forced to learn how it works.

zerokelvin

No, I did no test the ignition switch. It was 25 bucks and the stock one was 33 years old so I figured even if it's good... I'm getting a new one. I'm with you... I don't like to start throwing parts at stuff if it's not broke... this was an exception. Thanks GSP, I do see the wire coming out of the harness right there... mine doesn't have the connector.. it was cut off. Time to get a new connector and plug it in. THANKS again.

zerokelvin

Just rechecked timing and it's good. Tested spark again, it's good. Tested power in the ON position to the coil (both wires) and they showed 12.17V each when I set me DMM to 20 V on the flat/dashed line volt side. Going to take all the plugs out.. fire some cleaner in there, put them back and see if it will fire. It could be a fuel delivery problem....

zerokelvin

Didn't start after firing some cleaner in all cylinders with spark plugs out... it did fire a few times.. but no start.

zerokelvin

Just bought brand new spark plugs (other set was new but looked fouled after trying to start thing rig the last 4 days or so). It starts with the new plugs... but then dies shortly after.... so we're back to 3 days ago. Something is killing the ignition AFTER start. The ECU? some other thing? IDK... but if we figure out what is killing the ignition, we'll have a running truck. Is there a way I can hook up the coil directly and see if it will run (circumventing whatever is killing ignition)??? Thanks... hopefully we can figure this out soon... I'm tired of messing with all this electrical crap.

RAD4Runner

STOP replacing parts that you are not sure are broken and as you have seen did not fix your problem.
Do what we have suggested.
I posted detailed location, of the FP and B+ connector that EVERYBODY should use to troubleshoot problem where combustion starts when you crank but stops when you release ignition key, but have you done anything about it.

RAD4Runner

Please search the forum. There are reports about LED headlights that do not work with the H4 conversion harness from a certain vendor. Need to switch two of the contacts.

zerokelvin

Bought the spark plugs because my uncle told me to, and said he knows I shouldn't be buying parts, but he wanted to bring it back to what it was doing before and said the plugs would do that. They did. It now will start again as it wasn't even starting anymore. The plugs were only 9 bucks for the set, not really a big deal. I will certainly not be droping 20+ bucks per parts trying to trouble shoot.

zerokelvin

I just read back through the post as I am learning while this is going on and I didn't take it all in.
1. I did jump the fuel pump tester. Nothing happens with the key out or in position 1. In position 2 the pump turns on and fuel rail is pressurized. RAD, you said that the pump does not turn on until cranking. Just to clarify, if my key is in the ON position, #2, NOT START position, should my fuel pump be running?
Mine is turning on is position 2, not 3. What position does the key need to be in, if any, when jumping the fuel pump test terminal? What does it mean when nothing happens?
2. I disconnected the CSI electrical plug and the engine does the same thing, starts then dies, so the CSI thing is out the window.
3. I noticed in your picture RAD, that you have what looks like a wire going into a little black box near the test plugs. Mine is coming from the alternator harness, one BIG plug and one with an eyelet that goes in that little black box. Are ours different? Did I hook something up wrong? Optical conclusion?
4. I found my COR! Had to take the speaker out to get to it. I disconnected it and the truck did the same thing... starts up, fires a few times then dies. Does that mean anything? Bad COR? I was thinking it wouldn't start at all, but then again you might have said that the start up ignores it and it works when it's running, etc. Please advise.
5. When I turn key to position 2 I hear a fairly loud CLICK near the glove box. The truck is loud because it's only got have an exhaust right now so I don't hear anything click again when I let off the start position.

Here's more pics, maybe something will show itself.

zerokelvin

oh... need message. More pics