i just got my clutch in and it is amazing

 

Here's my $.02.
I've been wheeling moderate trails for 3 years. I've decided to keep my IFS till it grenades, then SAS.

If I could do it all over again, I would build my '87 4runner in this order:
start with an IFS lower control arm brace (this is a must if you are going to wheel it, I made mine for $35 https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...talled-120552/)
1" body lift (gives you a bit of clearance for tires and provides a baseline for armor),
then tires (31's for stock gearing, or 33's if you will regear),
1.5" bj spacers and 63" chevy springs in the rear w/ u-bolt flip (or other 2" rear spring lift),
rear locker,
stout bumpers and sliders,
front locker.

Before I really starter taking it off road, I wasted money on a header, crappy tires, k&n filter, crappy wimpy bumper, rear sping blocks, etc.

 

Sounds like you want a DD that you can go out and have some fun in for cheap. That's pretty much how my current truck started out (it's still my DD but a little more built then what I'm recommending http://www.planet4x4.net/forums/toyo...as-toyota.html ).

1. Assuming you or someone you know can weld and do minor sheetmetal work, tub the front firewall. There are plenty of FAQ's on it all over the net. Trim the sheetmetal (you don't have to do much) and then laugh at everyone running 31's.

2. Buy a decent set of 35's (your choice, BFG AT's, MT's, GDY MTR's, Trxus, they're all decent tires, even some of the cheapies are decent these days) on 8" wheels.

3. Buy 5.29's & install kits along with an aussie locker for the rear (4cyl) or a lockright (v6) and have someone that really KNOWS how to setup toyota diffs (ZUK does an amazing job but there are plenty of other guys that know toyota stuff well too) install it all for you.

4. Build bumpers, & rock sliders (or have friends that can fab teach you).

5. If you're still lacking for power offroad or feel like you're getting into hairier situations that require lower gearing go with a doubler or 4.7 gear set for your transfer case.

6. If you're really hurting for flex and clearance you can do BJ spacers up front and a spring swap out back and inboard your rear shocks. This helps a lot especially with the ever so flexy IFS.

This build is basically what I'll be helping my kid brother with soon. Cheap, fairly capable and solid for camping and DD use. There are a lot of great ideas for you in this thread and online here and at various sites. Try to make a list of goals you want to accomplish and then taylor your build to it. Doing it right the 1st time saves $$$ in the long run.

Oh and for all the SAS naysayers, I'll never seriously wheel an IFS rig again. A properly set up solid axle rig stomps the best IFS systems for everything but high speed assaults and is generally much stronger than IFS. For light duty stuff and DD IFS is awesome and I love it but it has serious limits. In the right hands an IFS rig can do some cool stuff but in those same hands a solid axle rig can do things you wouldn't believe.

 

None of us "SAS naysayers" argue that SAS isn't more capable in the rocks, nor that a "properly set up solid axle rig" can be good on the street too.

I DEFINITELY argue that a SAS rig is NOT "generally much stronger" than IFS. It can be upgraded to be stronger, but in "stock" form, it's marginally stronger at best - and that's just the steering - the stock axles are quite equivalent to IFS.

The solid axle rig can indeed do some amazing things - on trails that practically REQUIRE body damage and probably mechanical damage too. On anything less than that, IFS will keep up just fine. If you would like to come out to CO, I'd be happy to show you.

The point is - if you have to ask if you need a SAS, if there is even a doubt in your mind, you DON'T need one. You are nowhere NEAR the IFS being the limiting factor. If you don't have dual lockers, low gearing, and plenty of armor on your IFS (because you NEED it, not just because you thought it would be cool), then you don't NEED a SAS.

A SAS is not without it's bad side effects - it's not a silver bullet that you magically bolt on in an afternoon in your garage and you instantly have a street legal buggy!

 

I am only a conditional SAS naysayer.

Generally Stronger: Steering-Yes 100%, Axles- Only if you throw longfields at it.

I agree that a SAS'd truck CAN be built to be much stronger than an IFS truck.

However, that isn't really what we are talking about at all here. If the OP had come on and said "Hi, I've been wheeling my truck for several years now, and I have F/R bumpers, sliders, rear locker, dual cases, and I break my IFS every time I go out, and I'm looking to step up my game", my response would have been "You should look at getting a SAS done."

But, he said that he is relatively new at wheeling, has no armor, no lockers or gears, and has NEVER broken ANYTHING. I understand not throwing money away by dumping a lot into IFS, but there is a LOT you can do with a rear locker and some armor. NONE of which requires money thrown down the drain.

This is why I am a SAS naysayer on some conditions. On the net, it has become a sort of mantra that you must have a SAS to wheel. So, a bunch of new guys get them, have absolutely ZERO idea how to drive, or what they are doing, and end up making for a long day on the trail. They spend a lot of money doing something that they would likely never need. I seldom sway anyone, but I offer a different opinion.

I know a guy who ABSOLUTELY needed a SAS. I've never seen IFS torn up like his was. On the other hand, his SAS was WAY more impressive than most that you see, and actually IS stronger by a lot.

 

Sorry guys but we'll have to disagree on the strength dept. A solid axle is stronger in just about every way (with the exception of jumping or hitting something incredibly hard at extremely high speed). The axles are much stronger (especially if you limit steering a couple degrees, not to mention no CV boots to tear and leak) the diff is much stronger (especially when using a V6 or HP diff), the steering is much stronger and the overall layout of the solid axle is just plain stronger and more resistant to abuse. Add parts from longfield into the equation and there is just no comparison on strength.

I ran IFS locked front and rear with 5.29's and 4.7's in the t-case a couple years back and would really surprise people. I agree that for the majority of people a properly set up IFS rig can do everything they want and then some.

 

Agreed 98%. Actually, stock birfields have been tested and are the same strength as CV axles. The difference is that often people try to lift their IFS trucks by cranking torsion bars and dropping off bumpstops, and the cvs get flexed beyond their tollerance.

Aside from that, a SAS is MUCH stronger. With Longfields, it is hands down MANY times stronger than IFS. A SAS is worth the steering alone on a truck that sees rocks.

Our point is simply that, like you said, a SAS is a good investment for a guy such as yourself, who has been around the block a few times. For total newbs, not so much.

 

dang guys i have come to the right palce for info thank you so much of every thing. The path that i am currently looking at is putting on 33x 10.5 and gears and lockers and that will take me pretty far i think. So next pay check i will get tires and then gears and lockers

 

hey guys i was wondering if i would still have a decent amount of power to tire ratio if i put on 32s because i know it is recommended if i go 33 or up i should regear but just for one set of tires will i have the power needed with 32s or should i just stay with the 31s?

 

You'll be fine with 32's, and even 33's arent that bad.

 

ok cool thanks