Toyota~Boy

iTrader: (2)

I'm referring to my 1994 toyota pickup. 22RE with 5speed trans 4wd.

Today I was forced to run 4wd / front wheel drive to get home. I lost my rear driveshaft and only hope was use the front end to get me home. More info in my build thread about that.

Anyways hear my issue. Once I locked my hubs in and took off my front tires toed in really bad. I mean to the point that my tires were squealing making my truck bounce left and right. Once I let off the gas my tires would straiten them selves back out. Now you guys would think that this is caused by either a bad tierod of idler arm. But I assure you that my whole frontend is completely new. I've replaced every single thing under there except for bushings. Is this normal for these IFS trucks. If so what's the fix to the issue. My 87 pickup has this same problem. I've never figured out why.

Please all help is greatly appreciated. I'd love to figure this out as I don't want to waste $1000.00 in tires because of a defected ifs issue.

By the way I recently had a frontend alignment and I assume you it's 100% correct. I can also tell you this only happens when in 4WD on both trucks.

dropzone

iTrader: (6)

Locker up front?
When I lost my front d/s a few years ago it was a PITA to drive a locked front end on dry pavement.
Try it with only one hub locked and see what happens

Toyota~Boy

iTrader: (2)

Nope no lockers.
I'm open front and rear

bruno4turbo

when was the last time you serviced your hubs?

its normal to toe in when braking, and toe out when accelerating, but not noticeably

I'll ask my teachers tomorrow if they have heard of anything like this. one worked on toyota's in the 80's and 90's doing suspension and drive train work so maybe there's a TSB or a trick to it...

RJR

Jack up the front wheels one at a time and aggressively try to turn them from side to side, like you were trying to steer them. My guess is you'll find more slop in at least one of them than you were expecting. When you do, figure out what's loose and fix it. The behavior you describe is not normal in my experience.

bruno4turbo

^^ my teachers had me do that

thanks RJR for the memory flash.

Toyota~Boy

iTrader: (2)

See what I dont understand is why it's doing this. It's impossible to drive these trucks in 4wd. I mean yeah lock it in an go. Sure I can do that. But if I increase my RPMs my front tires turn in tward each other. Really really bad. I've checked everything that has to do with my steering and its all great. I have no slop at all. And as I stated my 87 does it as well.

Innocent Fool

How do you know the front tires are turning in towards each other?
Are you having someone drive the truck towards you while you are watching the tires or something? How are you arriving to that conclusion?

bbrideau

I'm very curious about this one... in my mind that's steering gear, but at the same time... it would be doing that in 4wd or not, only other thing i can think is your hubs are binding badly and need to be serviced.

bruno4turbo

I think its your hubs. it might not be the free wheeling part that is damaged, but maybe the locking part has a bend in it or something...

deff have someone drive it toward you if you haven't already

Toyota~Boy

iTrader: (2)

You can visually see it. It's like I'm driving with no tie rods.

When I hit the gas they turn in tward each other. Let off gas they go back straight. I ate a ˟˟˟˟ ton of rubber off my front tires just by driving it home the other night. I'd have to disagree with it being my hubs. I just replaced all wheel bearings and seals and redone my hubs while I was doing it. I can unbolt the dail and they are spotless in there minus the mild grease. They turn in and out with ease. And like I said its both my trucks not just my 93.

Guys I just don't know. We received some major rainfall today so I was able to have the day off. I replaced my tranny and now have my truck all back together. Once I get a chance I will take a video and show it to you guys. Now that my rear drive shaft is back in it will not do it as bad. But you will still see and get the point.

I had a 98 chevy Cheyenne that did this as well except it would bend and break tie rods. I ended up selling the truck due to that reason.

Has anyone here ever drove there 86-95 IFS truck without a rear DS. If so did you have the same issue as me.

Honestly it acts like something is giving in my steering allow my tires to toe in. But everything is brand new. I'm going to further diagnose it tomorrow and have some one else drive it so I can see if something is giving. Or at least find the weak spot.

bruno4turbo

hmm... strange... my teachers didn't really know much about it, they said they'd as some of their buddies about this, weird that both your trucks do it...

is your steering stabilizer new? the "sideways shock absorber"? i'm running out of front end components that move the tires...

RJR

Do you have stock wheels on your trucks, or are you running larger offsets that shift the tire centerlines further out from under the truck, increasing your track width? That would tend to cause what you're seeing. Spacers that move the wheels out would do the same thing.

bruno4turbo

idk about that RJR... i have spacers and pretty offset wheels and don't have this problem...

RSR

Completely out of left field, but is it possible your front lower A arms are expanding under load? SDORI makes a support bracket for this: http://www.sdori.com/SDORI_Products.html

If your have really wide wheel spacers on all around, combined with large tires with a lot of drag, combined with your rear differential being out of whack, that might explain? Considering that the lower A arm support bracket is only on front, not rear, allowing rear to expand and holding front in?

Start at the Tcase and work your way forward. I do know our Tcases are not meant to run the front w/o the rear. Look at all the problems folks had with running different front and rear gearing and ruining their tcases. A bent axle or propeller shaft or something might be it?

Otherwise, I'm completely blowing smoke -- maybe your forgot/didin't tighten down one of the front differential bolts or screwed into a wrong hole when you removed causing it to rotate your axles off of a horizontal plane?

That both tires do the exact same thing suggests that it's something that affects both tires equally. And on two trucks, wow!

bbrideau

I have 31 10.5's and have had to make it out of the bush with just front wheel drive and never had this issue, and when i blew my rear diff from a river crossing i had to go home about 30 miles with front wheel drive... Not saying it is good for the truck but I can't see it being bad either unless you have the issue your having. You have some bad luck my friend

vasinvictor

iTrader: (3)

I had to drive FWD to the driveshaft shop one time and my tires would move a lot, and was a pita to drive like that. I had all new front end parts. The drive torque still was able to move the front tires. Wheel bearings, tie rods, ball joints, whatever, they moved in some. Sounds like yours moved a bit more. Might be time to replace some more front end parts.

Toyota~Boy

iTrader: (2)

Okay guys I further diagnosed this issue today. This is my findings.

I locked my truck in 4wd Low Range and held my brake whole throttling up the engine. While releasing the clutch the front of my truck is raising up and my front tires are turning in toward each other. This is only happening under torque.

Now I had my wife to do the same as what I just described and I laid under my truck trying to find the weak link causing my toeing in problem. The only thing I could find moving was the front 3rd member mounts would give a little. I'm sure there suppose to considering there a rubber bushing. The A-Arms are only moving down under the torque. There not moving left or right. Only down which is what causes my truck to raise up in the front end.

Now I did jack my truck up in the air. All four tires off the ground. I started my truck and did the same procedure and had no play what so ever. So this led me to the conclusion that my front tires must have traction for it to allow my tires to toe in.

Now I did not mention this earlier but I do have 1.5" ball joint spacer along with the diff drop. So that should eliminate any if all binding.

Someone mention a lower A-Arm brace. I do not have one although I'm not seeing in play in the mounts. So right now I'm going to eliminate that as a possible cause.

Someone also mentioned the steering stabilizer. It's factory but seems to be working correctly.

While I had my truck jacked up I examined all steering components including wheel bearings and I have no play in anything at all. Everything is rock solid.

Any other thoughts or ideas would be awesome.

Now here's a little video.
Guys it's not as noticeable in the video because I'm not exactly driving it. I'm just slipping the clutch. When driving, its really bad under torque. My tires toe in really far causing my truck to handle really poorly. It was extremely bad when I had no rear driveshaft.

RSR

Have you replaced your front bushings? If not, looks like it's time. Also, energy suspension's poly bushings are probably firmer than OEM rubber...

Toyota~Boy

iTrader: (2)

Are you saying replace my A-Arm bushings right. That's not been done yet. However I'm not seeing A-Arm movement.