New rebuilt no start throwing codes 7 and 11
08-24-2018, 10:49 AM
#41
Tps
Replace it, not worth the effort to pull it apart and clean it. But if you really want to try there are details in my turbo build thread. Short version is don't pry the cap off the back, have to cut off the little cap unsolder then it will come apart.
08-24-2018, 11:57 AM
#42
Registered User
Thread Starter
Copy that. I’ve got the FSM in front of me turned to the EFI section and have looked over the testing procedures for the COR and Start Injector Time Switch so I’ll check those out and also test readings on the FP while moving the door on the Vane Airflow Meter and see what I get there. And I’ll search around for the AC switch as well. FSM says to test FP at the COR wiring connector and then remove it and test the pins on the relay. I’m starting to understand what needs to be done 
. As far as the AC switch I’ll hunt that down too. I’ll report back later with findings.
Thank you!
. As far as the AC switch I’ll hunt that down too. I’ll report back later with findings.Thank you!
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 08-24-2018 at 01:56 PM.
08-24-2018, 10:18 PM
#43
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Thread Starter
Tapping in to the Fp diagnostic port with my volt meter I get 11.79v. When I move the VAFM door the voltage jumps down to 8-22 MV as AFM door is manipulated and I can hear fuel pump come on the second the AFM door is triggered.
The COR connector tested 13.3 volts at FP pin while the engine was running and while the engine was cranking over it was getting around 11.97v at the Fp pin on the COR connector
Testing the pins on the COR Relay resulted in the following
STA to E1 spec 17-25ohm - my reading 22.2 ohm
+B -Fc spec 88-132 ohm - my reading 113.1 ohm
+B - Fp spec open/infinite - my reading open/infinite or: 0.0v
also I gave a visual inspection to all the connectors on the ECU and I don’t see any pins loose or ready to come out the back.
i didn’t get to test the start injector time switch yet but will do that in the morning.
The COR connector tested 13.3 volts at FP pin while the engine was running and while the engine was cranking over it was getting around 11.97v at the Fp pin on the COR connector
Testing the pins on the COR Relay resulted in the following
STA to E1 spec 17-25ohm - my reading 22.2 ohm
+B -Fc spec 88-132 ohm - my reading 113.1 ohm
+B - Fp spec open/infinite - my reading open/infinite or: 0.0v
also I gave a visual inspection to all the connectors on the ECU and I don’t see any pins loose or ready to come out the back.
i didn’t get to test the start injector time switch yet but will do that in the morning.
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 08-24-2018 at 10:39 PM.
08-25-2018, 06:14 AM
#45
Looks good,
Tapping in to the Fp diagnostic port with my volt meter I get 11.79v. When I move the VAFM door the voltage jumps down to 8-22 MV as AFM door is manipulated and I can hear fuel pump come on the second the AFM door is triggered.
The COR connector tested 13.3 volts at FP pin while the engine was running and while the engine was cranking over it was getting around 11.97v at the Fp pin on the COR connector
...
The COR connector tested 13.3 volts at FP pin while the engine was running and while the engine was cranking over it was getting around 11.97v at the Fp pin on the COR connector
...
You did say at one point the pump was not coming on, this means that fault is sporaticly showing up and that is the worst kind of electrical issue.
If this is the case I would, hmmm.. Voltage drop checks at the pump end of the harness. Unless you may have an injector leak the fuel should just recirculate and not wash the cylinders.
Meter on DC volts, probes inserted into backside of pump connection pigtail along side the wire terminals. Prop open the vafm vane to trigger the pump take a "baseline" voltage. Going to need a helper to watch the meter while you work your way backwards to the tank tapping on parts, wiggling wires and looking for wire damage. There will be a a voltage drop or complete loss of power when the problem area is manipulated.
Voltage drops occur when the path is not capable of sustaining the current load. For example you have a six strand wire somewhere in this wires sheath four of the strands are cut. A resistance check will be in spec, it will pass a continuity test and no load the voltage is fully present. Once a current load is applied (meters are high resistance, very small current used, so little load) like a fuel pump broken wires won't flow current.
You'll find lots of better explanations than mine with visuals on you tube and other websites.
... Actually let me sort of start over after rereading the quoted bit above.
You tested on the FP wire and reported 11.79, and this dropped to about 0.008-0.022 when you open the vafm vane. Which probe leads were attached to what? Cause from here that looks like a voltage drop test, red probe on battery positive black probe on FP?
08-25-2018, 06:52 AM
#46
RAD4runner...
Going to need ray to come sort me out..
I've seen it done, measured it myself I would have sworn, but not seeing the potential difference (voltage) between FP with B+ applied and chassis ground. There should be voltage (potential diff) because of the fuel pump.
..
So I identify B+ in the diagnostics connection, top of T. Meter ground on chassis, key off no voltage, key on voltage, that's B+. Red probe in horizontal of T shaped plug, key on no voltage. Activate COR by moving vafm... Where is my voltage diff, I can hear the pump and fuel.
I've seen it done, measured it myself I would have sworn, but not seeing the potential difference (voltage) between FP with B+ applied and chassis ground. There should be voltage (potential diff) because of the fuel pump.
..
So I identify B+ in the diagnostics connection, top of T. Meter ground on chassis, key off no voltage, key on voltage, that's B+. Red probe in horizontal of T shaped plug, key on no voltage. Activate COR by moving vafm... Where is my voltage diff, I can hear the pump and fuel.
08-25-2018, 07:11 AM
#47
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Voltage, by definition, is always between two points. On a simple system like our trucks, there is only one "ground," so you can profitably just measure all voltages from one point (say, FP) to ground. We say things like "voltage at FP," but it's only meaningful if you measure from FP to ground.
IF you measured from B+ to FP you would (should) get the readings (close to those) you gave above. With key-on, B+ is at battery voltage (around 12.6v; 11.79 is a discharged battery). With the key NOT to Start and the VAFM Vane closed, FP is just connected to ground THROUGH the Fuel Pump. So from B+ to "ground" gives you about 12v. When you open the VAFM Vane, the COR closes and you just "short out" your meter, giving you (essentially) 0v.
08-25-2018, 07:39 AM
#48
Scope, yeah he had no fuel pump activation before the jumper was used, after jumpering the diagnostics it started, then the jumper was removed to check the vafm switch and the system is working as intended. But I think it is still spotty and not coming on all the time?
If we ignore all that and assume it activates reliably, repeated starting attempts or long crank duration before it will fire is a fuel pressure retention problem. (Regulator, anti-drain valve, or injector leakage)
If we ignore all that and assume it activates reliably, repeated starting attempts or long crank duration before it will fire is a fuel pressure retention problem. (Regulator, anti-drain valve, or injector leakage)
08-25-2018, 07:55 AM
#49
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Thread Starter
I believe I had the red probe on B+ ... my truck doesn’t have the pretty little diagnostic box to tell me what to do so I probed for 12volts with the black lead to ground, when I found it I stuck the black probe in the opposite side then ran the test by moving the VAFM door. If I probed the opposite it read out of phase -11.79v then it still dropped to between 20-40mv when the AFM door is triggered.
i tested the pins on the AFM and all tests were well within range of spec so the AFM is not the problem.
I tested the cold start time injector and spec calls for 20-40 ohm bellow 68 defrees F. My reading was 53.2 ohm and it’s 61 degrees out this morning. So this seems to be outside of spec.
the behavior I’m noticing is no fuel pump when the key IS turned to start ... it should prime for a few seconds when the key is turned to start correct? However, if I jump the Fp and B+ Teeminals the pump turns on every time. Also the same goes for the AFM test, when the door moved the pump turned on.
Since you mentioned injector leak i went ahead and jumped Fp and B+ and then felt around and looked st all the injectors and I couldn’t see any leaks and there was no fuel on my fingers after a touch inspection. It wasn’t easy getting my big hands in there though. I also checked around the fuel filter and the fuel line I replaced and all was dry.
So, did I do the VAFM test incorrectly?
i tested the pins on the AFM and all tests were well within range of spec so the AFM is not the problem.
I tested the cold start time injector and spec calls for 20-40 ohm bellow 68 defrees F. My reading was 53.2 ohm and it’s 61 degrees out this morning. So this seems to be outside of spec.
the behavior I’m noticing is no fuel pump when the key IS turned to start ... it should prime for a few seconds when the key is turned to start correct? However, if I jump the Fp and B+ Teeminals the pump turns on every time. Also the same goes for the AFM test, when the door moved the pump turned on.
Since you mentioned injector leak i went ahead and jumped Fp and B+ and then felt around and looked st all the injectors and I couldn’t see any leaks and there was no fuel on my fingers after a touch inspection. It wasn’t easy getting my big hands in there though
. I also checked around the fuel filter and the fuel line I replaced and all was dry.So, did I do the VAFM test incorrectly?
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 08-25-2018 at 08:06 AM.
08-25-2018, 07:58 AM
#50
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Thread Starter
see the reply above this one for relevant information. Also gonna post more pics bellow because this site isn’t working well on my phone.
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 08-25-2018 at 08:00 AM.
08-25-2018, 08:10 AM
#52
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Thread Starter
Also to fill scope in on the behavior... the truck wouldn’t start cold without the fuel pump being jumped but once it’s warmed up it will start repeatedly without the jumper. I was thinking cold start injector or time switch but then it started with some struggle without the jumper while cold so that was weird and then I started checking the Circuit Open Relay and VAFM to see if something was funky there. To be clear Electrical is sort of my bane and I’m still trying to wrap my head around it.
08-25-2018, 08:20 AM
#53
Registered User
Thread Starter
I'm late to the party; is THIS why you're testing the FP pin?
These readings are "backwards." By any chance were you measuring the voltage BETWEEN FP and B+?
Voltage, by definition, is always between two points. On a simple system like our trucks, there is only one "ground," so you can profitably just measure all voltages from one point (say, FP) to ground. We say things like "voltage at FP," but it's only meaningful if you measure from FP to ground.
IF you measured from B+ to FP you would (should) get the readings (close to those) you gave above. With key-on, B+ is at battery voltage (around 12.6v; 11.79 is a discharged battery). With the key NOT to Start and the VAFM Vane closed, FP is just connected to ground THROUGH the Fuel Pump. So from B+ to "ground" gives you about 12v. When you open the VAFM Vane, the COR closes and you just "short out" your meter, giving you (essentially) 0v.
These readings are "backwards." By any chance were you measuring the voltage BETWEEN FP and B+?
Voltage, by definition, is always between two points. On a simple system like our trucks, there is only one "ground," so you can profitably just measure all voltages from one point (say, FP) to ground. We say things like "voltage at FP," but it's only meaningful if you measure from FP to ground.
IF you measured from B+ to FP you would (should) get the readings (close to those) you gave above. With key-on, B+ is at battery voltage (around 12.6v; 11.79 is a discharged battery). With the key NOT to Start and the VAFM Vane closed, FP is just connected to ground THROUGH the Fuel Pump. So from B+ to "ground" gives you about 12v. When you open the VAFM Vane, the COR closes and you just "short out" your meter, giving you (essentially) 0v.
ahh ok I see what you are saying ... I wasn’t grounding Fp ... when I mentioned “out of phase” all I did was switch probes and still wasn’t reading Fp @ ground. so what I need to do is stick the positive probe to Fp then ground the negative probe and move the airflow meter door and see what I get correct?
08-25-2018, 08:36 AM
#54
Registered User
Thread Starter
Maybe I’m still not understanding but with the positive probe on Fp and the negative probe grounded to a good ground source I read 12.6mv and when I move the AFM door all I get is a fluctuation between 12.8 and 12.4mv.
08-25-2018, 10:20 AM
#55
Registered User
Thread Starter
So I actually do hear the fuel pump coming on when the key is turned to start ... I turned the key without depressing the clutch and I can hear it pumping ... I’m kind of hard of hearing from years of loud music ... anyway I proceeded to test the cold start injector per the FSM procedure and it sprays as it should. I pulled the fuel return line and fuel was in the line but I haven’t run a volume test yet to see how much I returning.
The question is why was the truck starting better with Fp and B+ jumpered if the fuel pump is actually doing its thing when the ingition is triggered to start? I confirmed the fuel lines are connected to the filter the correct way, there are no noticeable fuel leaks from the lines or around the injectors, and the cold start injector sprays when given voltage off the battery with Fp and B+ jumped. The only things that haven’t tested within spec are my TPS and the cold start timer switch.
Seems like the next next logical step is to confirm voltage for the cold start injector at the ECU connector and test output of the fuel return line from the regulator. Thoughts?
The question is why was the truck starting better with Fp and B+ jumpered if the fuel pump is actually doing its thing when the ingition is triggered to start? I confirmed the fuel lines are connected to the filter the correct way, there are no noticeable fuel leaks from the lines or around the injectors, and the cold start injector sprays when given voltage off the battery with Fp and B+ jumped. The only things that haven’t tested within spec are my TPS and the cold start timer switch.
Seems like the next next logical step is to confirm voltage for the cold start injector at the ECU connector and test output of the fuel return line from the regulator. Thoughts?
Last edited by outdoorjunky; 08-25-2018 at 10:22 AM.
08-25-2018, 10:31 AM
#56
Registered User
Have you changed the fuel pressure regulator?
If the OEM one goes bad, fuel bypasses back into the tank... it'll start and run but won't accelerate...
ask me how i know!
If the OEM one goes bad, fuel bypasses back into the tank... it'll start and run but won't accelerate...
ask me how i know!
08-25-2018, 10:42 AM
#57
Registered User
Thread Starter
i haven’t replaced it but prior to when I pulled the engine apart I wasn’t having this issue. Not sure why it would suddenly go bad right when I try starting the engine for the first time since rebuilding it but I guess stranger things have happened. Thing is I can start the truck but it’s damn hard to get it started and once it runs to op temp I can shut it off and start it easily every time after that (without any fuel pump jumper). With the TPS Connected I get no throttle response it just bogs if I try to rev it but I figure that’s because my TPS is FUBAR. with the TPS disconnected I can rev the RPM’s without issue.
08-25-2018, 11:00 AM
#58
Registered User
If it sat for a while with no fuel going thru the system ( I'm assuming it did) things can go south... the fuel pressure regulator is a simple inexpensive thing to replace...
thre tps, afm, timing, electrical issues haven't looked like the issue to me all along. Except maybe ground at first no start... but now you know you have fire just not getting fuel...
my 2 cents and I'll bow out...
thre tps, afm, timing, electrical issues haven't looked like the issue to me all along. Except maybe ground at first no start... but now you know you have fire just not getting fuel...
my 2 cents and I'll bow out...
08-25-2018, 11:07 AM
#60
Registered User
Having played with the tps in my turbo 4 runner... i know i could move it and change throttle response and shift points... after reading your last reply I'd be suspect of the tps as well...
