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New rebuilt no start throwing codes 7 and 11

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Old 08-18-2018, 06:23 PM
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1986 4Runner 22re W56 New rebuild no start throwing codes 7 and 11

Ok so I got everything connected today filled the system with coolant, primed the system to get oil circulating, installed the spark plugs and wires and when I went for the magic moment all she did was turn over. I can smell that Iím getting fuel. I havenít checked spark but I also havenít changed anything with the ignition system and it worked flawlessly before engine removal. Iím getting codes 7 and 11 pointing at AC switch, TPS open or faulty or bad ECU. Since the truck was ďworkingĒ before rebuild I donít think itís the ECU but obe thing I noticed when I was getting geared up to test the TPS was the set screw was not even close to touching the dash pot it was like 1/2 inch backed off from the dash pot also my TPS screws werenít tight so Iím pretty sure everything is all out of spec now.

Iím looking at the FSM and I Iím just not understanding the feeler gauge process. How can I test the trottle position when the dash pot plunger just moves down instead of affecting the trottle position? Iíve been wrenching on this thing all day and Iím probably to the point where Iím more dangerous than anything but I sure could use a slap over the head and an explaination in laymanís terms. Iím gonna pull the valve cover and check timing to make sure Iím not 180 out or a tooth off with the distributor but I still need a hand with understanding this throttle position sensor alignment thatís definitely out of wack. Any insight would be greatly appreciated I really need this truck on the road by Monday morning.

Thanks in advance!!

Last edited by outdoorjunky; 08-29-2018 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:16 PM
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Is that a tooth off?? Not sure what exactly a tooth off looks like.


The notch in the gear itís self is smack dab in the middle of the dark link. I confirmed with my machinist that this is set up correctly for this timing set. The notch on the distributor drive lines up with the right side link on the chain.


The dash pot boot is torn up but it appears to still function.

I just checked timing with the crank at 5degrees btdc the cam gear and timing chain are perfectly aligned, the valves are loose for cylinder #1 indicating TDC on the compression stroke, and the distributor appears to have been stabbed correctly unless there is something Iím not seeing here? I tried to get the best pics possible. See below
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:20 PM
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After going through the FSM some more I feel stupid as heck. The dashpot screw is not the set screw for the trottle stop ... I finally found that behind one of the vacuum hoses coming off the air valve ... couldnít really see it under everything and the dash pot set screw seemed like the only set screw there was. Anyway one thing that I did was pull the EFI fuse while I primed the engine (without spark plug wires connected also) but when I installed the plugs I got overly excited and tried to start the truck without the fuse (by accident) would this have cause the codes? And if I didnít clear the codes would it not start even with the fuse installed? I realize I asked a stupid question above but Iím still having trouble getting her started. Any help is appreciated.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:27 AM
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Regarding cam to crank timing. This doesn't look right to me but it maybe the way the camera is positioned. If you place a small square across the flat at the top front of the head, you should be able to line up the centerline of the bolt and dowel of the distributor drive gear.

You mentioned the crank is at 5 btdc, it should be dead on zero (tdc), crank key way straight up at twelve this corresponds with the cam dowel at twelve also.

What I read and see is "crank at 5į btdc" and cam dowel advanced beyond zero (atdc), both should be at zero.

Worth your time to double check these.

Regarding ignition timing.

You did not provide a wide enough image to comment on the distributor placement.

Regarding codes.

It sets this code when the throttle sensor is out of the idle position, or the AC switch is on, AND the diagnostics jumper is in place.

It doesn't prevent the engine from firing, they will start, run and drive with the tps completely disconnected.

It does however prevent setting base idle to spec, so needs addressed eventually.

Since the tps is already loose, take it all the way off and ensure the spring isn't binding and it returns all the way to the stops. Depending how loose and your climate it's full of gunk.

Now is also the time to swap the Philips heads for Allen head bolts. Otherwise they are a pita to tighten on the vehicle, can be done with a driver intended for door knob hardware but not fun..

Regarding tps adjustments.

Ple
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
...

Regarding tps adjustments.
Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
...

Reinstalled the TPS, throttle closed 0.01k.


Don't have the exact size feeler. Using 0.203 + 0.66 = 0.863mm.


Press the stop against the feeler and the stop screw, there is a nice flat spot on top.


a moment about the FSM TPS adjustment procedure. It has you insert the TPS at its maximum CCW orientation. This is so the engagement is oriented correctly with the throttle pushing the sensor. Then it goes in to taking up the slack, and tells you to insert the 0.47mm and "rotate cw until the needle deflects". You need to take up any slack between the throttle and the sensor and any slack in the sensor. So if it's not zero with the 0.47mm, and it fluctuates at all when you touch it that is deflection tighten it! The next two will be in spec with the .5mm it's under 2k, .8 it's open.

You can totally tweak it with in the limits. As long as .5 isn't to close to open and 8 is open. About more on his in a second.

...
Haha, " About more on his in a second ", surely I proof read that before posting, quote it often and first time I've noticed that typo.

If anything but that doesn't make sense ask for clarification, it's not as hard as it sound.
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by outdoorjunky View Post
...
I just checked timing with the crank at 5degrees btdc the cam gear and timing chain are perfectly aligned, the valves are loose for cylinder #1 indicating TDC on the compression stroke, and the distributor appears to have been stabbed correctly unless there is something Iím not seeing here? I tried to get the best pics possible. See below
Top dead center refers to the crank position, pistons at top of stroke and connecting rod centered to crankshaft bearing clearances. (We typically ignore that last bit about centered, but I digress)
​​​
If the crank indicates 5į btdc you are not at TDC (unless the pulley spun on the center shaft, yes they do that)

Keep in mind the chain tensioner. You can not rotate the crankshaft backward if you over shoot zero. If you rotate backwards the slack side of the chain prevents the camshaft from rolling backward. There was/is video that demonstrates this.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
Top dead center refers to the crank position, pistons at top of stroke and connecting rod centered to crankshaft bearing clearances. (We typically ignore that last bit about centered, but I digress)
​​​
If the crank indicates 5į btdc you are not at TDC (unless the pulley spun on the center shaft, yes they do that)

Keep in mind the chain tensioner. You can not rotate the crankshaft backward if you over shoot zero. If you rotate backwards the slack side of the chain prevents the camshaft from rolling backward. There was/is video that demonstrates this.

first of all thank you for replying!

Secondly ... F Me! I did roll the engine backward to line it up at zero once or twice ... not major but an inch or so because I passed Tdc.

Regarding having it at 5degrees that was only for stabbing the distributor per FSM instructions I set the cam up at 0 degrees.

Above is a pic of my cam gear and chain when I set it up before putting on the distributor drive gear and torquing the cam bolt.

Im out running some errands but Iíll snap a pic of the timing set at zero when I get back home and post it here.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:37 AM
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And actually just looking at the pic I posted yesterday vs the one I posted today it doesnít look right . So is there any option to get this chain lined up again without tearing the engine down to the block and losing a load of money on gaskets?
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Old 08-19-2018, 10:00 AM
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Huh maybe I need to calm down and be more objective about this. I just pulled the cover and lined up the crank at the TDC zero mark and the cam gear doesnít look wrong to me unless I didnít need set it up correctly in the first place? But what does look a little wierd is the distributor gear, it should have the tooth submerged in th drive gear but it almost looks like I see two teeth riding on top of the drive gear rather than one completely hidden down into the gear (if that makes sense?).

Last edited by outdoorjunky; 08-19-2018 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:18 AM
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A pic from a better angle from the day I set up the timing chain. And to clarify, on this cam gear the alignment notch is hidden by the dark link but itís centered in between the two pins on the dark link.

Last edited by outdoorjunky; 08-19-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:31 AM
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Well I learned something else the hard way I guess ... the teeth canít not be lined up but the phrase a tooth off refers to the position of the rotor in relation to how the teeth lined up. I see why the close up of the gears was useless. Here is a wider shot.
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:03 PM
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Dude, unfortunately I think you are right about me being off on the timing chain. I had to walk away from working on it extensively today just out of sheer feeling of defeat but I just looked it over and set a square in front of it the best I could with the size I have (was able to get a pretty good look at it) and the marker on the drive gear sure looks to be a tooth to the right from where the right most pin on the dark link is. In other words the right most pin is a tooth to the left of the indicator on the distributor drive. So definitely not how it was when I set it up. Guess I know what Iím doing next weekend 🤬 at least I can probably pull the whole engine out in about 45 minutes at this point.


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Old 08-19-2018, 04:27 PM
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Okay, slow down. In the end, it doesn't really matter where the dark link is (that's there as a convenience for lining up the sprocket with a slack chain.) The important part is to set the crank to TDC, and confirm that the timing mark on the sprocket (not the distributor drive, but I think the marks on each are in the same place) is pointing up. http://web.archive.org/web/201210231.../8timingch.pdf I don't know a lot about the 22re, and I can't see the timing mark in your latest picture (lighting), but the manual seems clear enough.

Your engine is acting like it isn't getting spark. That's so easy to check there's no reason to not do it several times. Put the inductive pickup of your timing light on each plug wire and crank. If the light flashes, the plug is firing (it doesn't mean it's firing at the right time, but first things first).

Next, you're getting a code for the TPS. So fix it. People have a lot of trouble setting the IDL switch, but there really isn't that much to it. You need to rotate the TPS so the IDL switch is closed with the throttle closed, and open with the throttle open. A "perfect" switch has 0.000 ohms when closed, but Toyota recognizes that these are automotive parts, so anything under 2.3k ohms is close enough. A perfect switch is closed when closed, and open when moved 0.00001 mm. Again, not perfect, so if it's closed at .57mm and open at .85, that's set correctly. http://web.archive.org/web/201311071...34throttle.pdf

But for you, you need to worry more about VTA-E2. The manual gives the correct "range" of resistance at open and closed, but more important than that is whether the resistance changes smoothly from one end to the other. (move the throttle slowly). If the resistance bangs back and forth from zero to infinity as you move the throttle plate, the TPS is bad and will throw a code.

Last edited by scope103; 08-19-2018 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by scope103 View Post
Okay, slow down. In the end, it doesn't really matter where the dark link is (that's there as a convenience for lining up the sprocket with a slack chain.) The important part is to set the crank to TDC, and confirm that the timing mark on the sprocket (not the distributor drive, but I think the marks on each are in the same place) is pointing up. http://web.archive.org/web/201210231.../8timingch.pdf I don't know a lot about the 22re, and I can't see the timing mark in your latest picture (lighting), but the manual seems clear enough.

Your engine is acting like it isn't getting spark. That's so easy to check there's no reason to not do it several times. Put the inductive pickup of your timing light on each plug wire and crank. If the light flashes, the plug is firing (it doesn't mean it's firing at the right time, but first things first).

Next, you're getting a code for the TPS. So fix it. People have a lot of trouble setting the IDL switch, but there really isn't that much to it. You need to rotate the TPS so the IDL switch is closed with the throttle closed, and open with the throttle open. A "perfect" switch has 0.000 ohms when closed, but Toyota recognizes that these are automotive parts, so anything under 2.3k ohms is close enough. A perfect switch is closed when closed, and open when moved 0.00001 mm. Again, not perfect, so if it's closed at .57mm and open at .85, that's set correctly. http://web.archive.org/web/201311071...34throttle.pdf

But for you, you need to worry more about VTA-E2. The manual gives the correct "range" of resistance at open and closed, but more important than that is whether the resistance changes smoothly from one end to the other. (move the throttle slowly). If the resistance bangs back and forth from zero to infinity as you move the throttle plate, the TPS is bad and will throw a code.
I just confirmed spark on cylinders 1 and 2 before the battery died so at least we know it's getting dished out. I'll have to confirm fuel next once the battery is charged again and for the hell of it I'll test compression after that... that would also let me know if there is a timing problem right? example; the valves aren't all the way closed when they should be at TDC causing loss of compression.

About the TPS I think it's suspect because I committed the cardinal sin of cleaning the throttle bod with the sensor attached out of fear of having to set it up again. I was careful but maybe not careful enough. I was in panic mode and tried the test before I really wrapped my head around it. I tested the VTA-E2 pins and I swear I got something around 800 ohm but then I removed the thing for some dumb reason thinking the clearances that needed measurement were inside it's mechanism not the between the throttle stop screw. Coincidentally the screws on the TPS weren't very tight at all probably from the previous owner messing with it. Now since installing it again I can't get a reading above 80 ohm regardless of where I turn the throttle it's somewhere between 46 and 80 ohm. According to the FSM that means bad. Pretty sure I took the base of the test and threw it out the window. So now I'll have to set it back up correctly so I can test it properly.

As far as my timing set is concerned the chain has two dark links that are meant to line up at each end one centered on the notched cam gear and the other centered on the notched crank sprocket. Unfortunately the notch is on the tooth and gets hidden once you get the chain on. In retrospect it would have been wise of me to make a notch with a punch or something for future reference.

Thanks for the tip on using the timing light that made it stupid simple.
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:23 AM
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Better pictures, looks fine from here.
Cam dowel​​​​​​ at twelve, rotor pointed at number one.

Double check the spark order. Confirm ground wires all attached (thread with pics findable in search).
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
Better pictures, looks fine from here.
Cam dowel​​​​​​ at twelve, rotor pointed at number one.

Double check the spark order. Confirm ground wires all attached (thread with pics findable in search).
I followed that thread as close as I could when connecting the ground straps. I have the ground that comes off the battery side grounded to the AC bracket next to the passenger motor mount, the EFI is grounded to the left bolt of the opening between the upper and lower plenum, the firewall to head ground is attached to the head where the rear engine hanger connects, and the ground for the Alternator side is connected to the power steering bracket.

Is it that critical that I should have actually grounded the starter/battery side to the motor mount bracket or is it ok to be close and grounding to the same area? Looks like it used to have a little tab with maybe a 6mm bolt holding it to the passenger motor mount next to the chamber stay but the bolt is nowhere to be found so I just grounded to the rear most bolt of the AC bracket over there... is that a possible issue?
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:56 AM
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As far as firing order I donít think Iíve got that wrong Iím using OEM wires and distributor cap and I just matched the number on the plug wires to the numbers on the cap and I confirmed they are attached to the correct cylinders going 1-2-3-4 from front to rear.
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Old 08-20-2018, 10:32 AM
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Block order: 1234 yep
Double check the cap is marked: 1342 (Have seen bad batch of caps, but to lazy to search up the thread)

My starter ground is attached to the stay, at the intake. Long as you have metal to metal all the way to the block, and it cranks healthy it's good. I forgot where you said on the AC bracket, the rear looks no problem front not as much but again if it's a clean path to the block and spins it's OK.

Listen to the injectors, screwdriver or stethoscope, make sure they are firing. Should be pretty obvious, mine are louder than the valve train.

These use a by-pass style ignition, in short while it's in STArt position the ignition is fired solely off the distributor pickup with no ECU adjustment. So if you're getting sparks then it should try to fire off. If it does then dies when you release the key to run its an issue with the ICM ECU communication, or a COR problem.

Well that's not entirely true, after a certain rpm (don't know the Toyota number, on GM by-pass ignition it's 400-500 rpm) the ECU takes over. So to healthy of a starter spin will kick in the ECU control.

Once fuel and spark are eliminated it's time to verify compression.

PS. Timing light not only makes it quick and simple, but safe also. Too much air gap brings the coil voltage over where it should be, you get random arcing and coil damage. Open air spark testing should be avoided unless you have a spark gauge it's easy to have to much air gap.
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Old 08-20-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Co_94_PU View Post
Block order: 1234 yep
Double check the cap is marked: 1342 (Have seen bad batch of caps, but to lazy to search up the thread)

My starter ground is attached to the stay, at the intake. Long as you have metal to metal all the way to the block, and it cranks healthy it's good. I forgot where you said on the AC bracket, the rear looks no problem front not as much but again if it's a clean path to the block and spins it's OK.

Listen to the injectors, screwdriver or stethoscope, make sure they are firing. Should be pretty obvious, mine are louder than the valve train.

These use a by-pass style ignition, in short while it's in STArt position the ignition is fired solely off the distributor pickup with no ECU adjustment. So if you're getting sparks then it should try to fire off. If it does then dies when you release the key to run its an issue with the ICM ECU communication, or a COR problem.

Well that's not entirely true, after a certain rpm (don't know the Toyota number, on GM by-pass ignition it's 400-500 rpm) the ECU takes over. So to healthy of a starter spin will kick in the ECU control.

Once fuel and spark are eliminated it's time to verify compression.

PS. Timing light not only makes it quick and simple, but safe also. Too much air gap brings the coil voltage over where it should be, you get random arcing and coil damage. Open air spark testing should be avoided unless you have a spark gauge it's easy to have to much air gap.
huh so on the starter ground Iím tied in to the top bolt at the back of the AC bracket I believe it shares a bolt with the motor mount bracket and is anchored directly to the block BUT my ground on the alternator/I think itís the ignition ground is attached to the power steering bracket anchored to one of the bolts going to the pump ... that might not be good. I think Iíll tie it in directly to one of the bolts that attaches to the block and see if that helps anything. I got spark on the timing light but like I said the battery was dying and it seemed almost like I was getting broken blinks to the light like 4 blinks then a long pause but wasnít sure if that was due to the drained battery. Iíll check that out once I get the charged battery back in. Unfortunately my battery charger took a crap (looks like it was dropped when we moved because stuff is rattling around inside the casing) so I have to buy a new one before I can test further and super busy with school this week until Friday when I can put some time into this again. Wouldnít it be stupid if this whole thing was because of a miss placed ground? Lol

Last edited by outdoorjunky; 08-20-2018 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:43 PM
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Erratic spark



Ignitor, coil, ignition ground. 1of2
This is grounded by chassis ground.




2of2 Chassis/body ground.


Sparatic spark could be a bad ground, as well bad distributor pickup, failing ignition, or just flakey or poor routed wires.

The ignition system is grounded via the frame of the "module" to the inner fender then picked up at the battery.

Spark is grounded via the head strap. (I don't even have that one in place fwiw, mine is via head bolts and/or the alternator harness.. Yeah I know *shrug*)

Injectors ground via the ECU/EFI connection.


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