ajetski07

Hello My fellow Yota Techers,

A few months back I got myself another Toyota 4x4 after having previously owned 2 Pickups in my life. I love them to death and will always be a YotaHead.

A little about my rig:

1987 4Runner SR5 22re with an automatic 4" lift with 33's

When I bought my truck the PO had the entire top end of the truck rebuilt along with a lot of new parts for the motor. When I test drove it she was good and for a while after it was all good. A few weeks after having the truck my fuel pump went out on the truck, no big deal it was probably as old as the truck was. The truck was fine for a while after that, now just a few weeks ago my truck started giving me trouble in the morning when I would go to start it.

First crank and the motor would just crank but not start, turn the key off crank again then the engine would turn over, but roughly and idle rough for a few seconds before it would smooth itself out. I asked my mechanic about it and he said that it sounds like maybe its flooded in the morning, maybe a leaky injector and to try running some seafoam through the system to clean it out. I ran the seafoam and at first, it seemed like it did the trick. But the next time I filled up the issue came back again. I ran the second can of seafoam the next time that I filled up thinking maybe it was just really dirty. Same basic results better but not solved.

About a week ago it was doing it to me every day in the morning and even sometimes at work if I let it sit long enough before going to lunch. I figured perfect now is the time to take it into my Mechanic since it is doing it regularly. He had it for 4 days and it never gave him an issue starting once, I was having some other little things fixed while it was there too so I picked it up after those were done and took her home. She started well for me for about a day then yesterday morning the first start of the day issue was back. Only this time it did something else, I was driving to work and stopped to grab coffee when I came back out to my truck it fired right up, but when I threw it into reverse the RPM's dropped really low and it stalled out. It did this to me 2 times, when I got to work I tried throwing it in reverse just to see and it bogged down again really low on the RPM's but did not stall all the way out and evened back out to 500-600 RPM's.

My mechanic said that he checked the Fuel Pressure Regulator and it seemed to be working, although he did say that he did not check the exact PSI of the system.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as this truck is my baby and I want to give her what she needs.

Thanks my extended Yota Fam out there!

coryc85

I'd check the aux air valve, also sometimes called the idle air control valve. There are some checks, 1 being that with cold engine, you start it up and you pinch the air hose coming from the IACV, idle should stumble, if it does not stumble, then I would guess that yours is probably stuck closed. This valve is open when the engine is cold to let a little extra air in, as the engine warms up, it closes. Do you have a cold idle? Meaning does it idle a bit high when engine is first started and then drop down when it warms up? These IACVs are notorious on the pre 89 trucks. There are also a lot of other factors, like it could be that your cold start switch just needs to be cleaned, your cold start injector is clogged or not working, or any number of other things, but I'd start with the IACV since these things are problematic. If it passes the pinch test at cold, you can also let the engine warm up and pinch it again, at warm no change to the idle should be observed.

ajetski07

CoryC85,

Thanks for this suggestion, do you think that perhaps even though I ran some seafoam that the CSI could still be dirty and gunked up? Maybe the seafoam is not enough to do the trick?

I will see about trying that IACV today as well, thank you again!

ajetski07

Coryc85,

Also, I forgot that mine does not have a high idle that I have noticed, how high of an idle are we talking? I know that my truck according to specs should idle around 750RPM's. I guess it might idle closer to 800-1000 when I first start it but that usually resolved itself pretty quickly. Is that what you are referring to? Or are we talking like really high idle?

coryc85

If your CSI is somehow clogged up, I doubt seafoam is going to do the trick. You'll probably have to send it out to an injector place to get cleaned.

When I say high idle, at cold your idle should be higher than 750 and should remain there until the truck warms up. I'm not sure what the spec is, but 1200 rpms maybe for cold idle. So when you say it resolves itself quickly, what do you mean? The truck should stay at the higher idle until it warms up.

ajetski07

Thanks CoryC85, I appreciate your time man.

Mine idles around 1000 maybe a little bit higher first thing in the morning(that is after the initial cold starting issue of course), it stays around that high until I throw it into gear to leave for the morning or if it warms up from sitting while running.

ajetski07

I was just thinking that perhaps I should mention that I do currently have a bad cat and a cracked weld around my muffler inlet causing an exhaust leak. I am not sure that those would be related to this issue in any way but thought better to offer up that info as well. My regular Mechanic didn't seem to think that those would be related to this but hey.

RBX

Just skimmed this, so if it's mentioned I apologize. Check you cold start sensor. That's what fires the CSI. At the moment, my cold start sensor is also bad. I have also removed my PAIR and EGR with no issues. That said I also just recently experienced the low idle issue, not sure if it's related to the cold start sensor because it doesn't do it all the time. My truck is a 92, when I finally get it started it idles up just like it's suppose to. Back to the the low idle and stall. This could be a vacuum diaphragm going bad. Either the powersterring vac or maybe the a/c vac diaphragm both could wreak havoc on the idle issue.

ajetski07

RBX,

Thank you for the input on this one as well, mine too once it starts idles just fine, only the low idle when I throw it into reverse gear usually and not first thing in the morning, this happened to me after I drove my truck for a while. I went out and popped my hood on my lunch break and I did notice that the hose going from the valve cover to the EFI intake has a crack around where it connect to the Valve Cover, but I was under the impression that these are not vacuum related? Am I not correct in that assumption?

RBX

Negative ghost rider, any hose on the manifold can pull vacuum.

ajetski07

Hello again my Yota Techers,

So I haven't had a chance to test all of the things mentioned to me here just yet, but also something of note that I thought I would mention is that Thursday - Saturday my 4Runner did the morning start issue, crank for a minute then crank again before it will fire up. However then on Sunday morning after being in San Francisco all day and night Saturday, I fired my truck up on the first try???? Sunday was a much warmer day than it has been here in Northern California, but by no means is it really ever that cold here either.

The stall out/idle drop is still happening after the truck is warm and when I shift from Park to Reverse usually.

I found that my PCV hose on the top of my valve cover that connects to the EFI intake had a rather large split in it right where it connects to the valve cover. I tracked this hose down at the dealership for 26 bucks, I am waiting for my engine to cool off now so that I can put it on. I am not sure how much this will help in either of my issues but as RBX was saying, any hose connecting to the EFI Intake Manifold will pull vacuum, so I am hoping that this will help the idle drop/stall out when the car is warm and shifting to reverse from park etc.

In case anyone else is in need of that hose the Toyota part number is:

Description: Hose, Ventilation, No. 2

Part No: 12262-35030

Thanks everyone for their help I will keep this thread updated once as I work to resolve the entire issue.

RBX

Have you checked for any codes?

ajetski07

I have not tried to pull any codes yet, I have never had a check engine light come on or anything? Could it still have a stored code in it?

scope103

Yes, it could.

ajetski07

Good to know, does anyone know of a good code tool that will work on a 1987 4runner? I could just go to a shop and have the code ran but I would also love to have one for myself and future indevours that I may get into with my rig.

scope103

Oooh! They're really expensive!


http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TroubleCodes/

ajetski07

Yeah, I should have guessed that.

RAD4Runner

Before you go into more complicated stuff... title says "Morning" Start/Hard "Cold" Start

Obviously, this is temp-related. Why not check the simple things that are temp related?
Temp senders and their mountings need to be cleaned regularly to bare, shiny metal... at least once every 30 years
Do that and let us know.

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

scope was having fun with you. the way to pull codes is to use a paperclip to jump ports in the "diagnostic" box in the engine compartment.

ajetski07

Thanks everybody for being so quick to assist me, I truly appreciate it.

RAD - I should have been a little bit more specific, it usually only happens to me in the morning or rather just the first start of the day, my first thought was the cold start injector, but the CSI seems to be working my guess was that maybe it was gunked up and maybe not closing all the way, leaking gas into the intake manifold causing a flooded type situation. But, the truck had even done it to me at work at around 1:30 in the afternoon. Still certainly going to check the temp sending unit for the CSI this weekend maybe sooner if I can get to it. Is there any other temp related sensors that I should look at?

Gonna pull any codes that might be stored tomorrow, but I have to search out what pins are what because my diagnostic connector no longer has the cap portion for it.

Thanks again everyone!