Granddaddy

U.S.A. model, July/1988 PLAIN AS CAN BE Pickup, 22RE F.I, automatic, 2WD, A/C, regular cab, manual windows/locks.
New alternator, new alternator connector, P.S. deleted including brackets.
Checked all fuses and fusible links.
Serious problem here. I have read approximately 11 web forums all about the Charge Light/Lamp Relay cuz my red Charge and Brake cluster lights are staying on. I've tried every suggestion............except for the Charge Light/Lamp Relay because I CAN'T FIND IT! And I can prove it's not at the driver's side kick-panel or the passenger-side kick-panel cuz I took photos! The first photo is looking behind the glove-box. The second photo is looking up under the dash on the driver's side. The third is looking at the kick-panel area on the driver's side. I have three more photos but I'm only allowed to upload three. Not sure how to get you to see the other three photos.
I thought I had this thing licked because I found out about the diode fix and I read about the green relay connector and the relay having "Charge Lamp Relay" printed on it, it being grey and about the size it is, but then when I started pulling stuff apart to find it, it's not there! How the friggy-diggy is this possible???!! Wouldn't the relay have to be there somewhere in order to set off the cluster lights?? Please help!

Granddaddy

OK, I figured out how to get the other three photos uploaded (duh).

scope103

I've never heard of a "Charge Lamp Relay" or any relay in the charge lamp or Brake lamp circuit. I only have electrical diagrams for 1993 and 1994, but so far I've found the differences in earlier trucks to be pretty minor.

My diagrams show that the charge lamp is connected to the "L" terminal of the alternator. When the terminal is at ground (alternator not producing output) the lamp lights. The Brake lamp is hooked to the brake fluid switch in the fluid reservoir, and the parking brake switch. No relays.

There is an internal diode in the Combination meter between the charge and brake lights. It shouldn't cause a bad alternator to light the brake light, but apparently the right combination of worn wiring will make that happen.

If someone with more experience with the '88 says there is a "Charge Lamp Relay" in that model year, I'll defer to them.

Have you a) checked the brake fluid switch, b) the parking brake switch, c) the "L" terminal (yellow wire) on the alternator?

wireguy

I had the same problem. I had let the brake fluid in the reservoir fall below the acceptable minimum so the reservoir float switch activated and the brake/charge light came on and stayed on. I would guess that it is possible that same float switch or circuit could screw up and create the same issue.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Electric in not my strong point but the middle picture in your second post is your Circuit Opening Relay. Basically it just controls the fuel pump and would not be an issue for you on this. Just a process of elimination of that for you.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

There is no charge light relay on a 88 Toyota 22R series engine.

Unless it was added for some strange reason.

RAD4Runner

[QUOTE=Granddaddy;52250092]...Checked all fuses and fusible links...
... red Charge and Brake cluster lights are staying on.[\QUOTE]
But you never said whether you took voltage measurements anywhere or not. Maybe the lights are merely doing their jobs.
Got a volt-meter? Next to our senses, it is the most important electrical troubleshooting tool.

Correct ^^^
See my signature for explanation of how charging/alt system works on 22RE 1986-1988 (and possibly other models).

• IF there is charging fault, both charge and brake lights would come on.
• IF brake fluid level is low, ONLY brake error light will come on. This is because of the way diode is connected.

From 1988 22R-E FSM.


Here are the diodes:

Granddaddy

[QUOTE=RAD4Runner;52250309][QUOTE=Granddaddy;52250092]...Checked all fuses and fusible links...
... red Charge and Brake cluster lights are staying on.[\QUOTE]
But you never said whether you took voltage measurements anywhere or not. Maybe the lights are merely doing their jobs.
Got a volt-meter? Next to our senses, it is the most important electrical troubleshooting tool.



"New alternator, new alternator connector, P.S. deleted including brackets.
Checked all fuses and fusible links.........
......I've tried every suggestion............"


Sorry if I didn't make it clear that I've tried everything.
Everything is working fine except for the red Charge and Brake lights being on. Not only did I check the voltage, but I also tried everything that was suggested in approximately 11 web forums as to what it could be and how to resolve it.

scope103

"Everything" suggested by those forums where you read all about the "Charge Light/Lamp Relay"?

If you had really tried "everything" the problem would be fixed at some point. But it's not. So, you very sensibly came here asking for some help. But rather than you TELL us what you did (which switches you checked and how you did it, what voltages you got under what conditions ....), we all have to guess and suggest the most logical tests you should run. Then you just blow off all the advice by saying that you have already "... tried everything."

Good luck!

RAD4Runner

Your supposedly good results are based on the forums that tell you there is a charge light relay. Therefore, you are looking at the wrong forums, and what they tell you is good may not really be good.

Look at my schematic right off the 1986-1988 FSM, and explanation of how charging system works. Does your system do exactly as explained?

What voltages do you get at each point?
Most importantly,
What voltage do see at "B" post?
What voltage do you get at charge fuse?


Then we'll go from there.

Granddaddy

The problem is narrowed down to the Charge Lamp Relay since I have tried every other suggestion.
I came here asking for help LOCATING the Charge Lamp Relay.
I had tried every suggestion except for the Charge Lamp Relay because I couldn't find it. If I could find this last thing to check I would be able to fix it. If you feel blown off, I don't know what to tell you. I certainly didn't state anything that has been incorrect. I've written concisely about events leading up to here.
I even said I'm sorry.
I really don't understand your hurt feelings.

After having exhausted all other remedies, the forums suggested that the last thing it could be is the Charge Lamp Relay. Some of that came from YotaTech.com.

Granddaddy

Ok so I paid a visit to my buddies at the local Toyota dealership, Parts Manager, and head-honcho mechanic.
The following is strictly in regards to my Pickup; I am not making any references to any other model. For whatever reason, other's situation may be different.
For my Pickup they said there is no Charge Light/Lamp Relay and it just so happens that this started in my year Pickup, 1988. Prior years did have the Charge Light/Lamp Relay. Just for shifts & giggles, I asked Parts buddy to check 1989 and sure enough there still was no Charge Light/Lamp Relay.
Someone had mentioned a diode, so I asked Parts buddy to check that. The only one that came up was somewhere in the middle of the dash. So armed with all this new info, I went to talk to Mechanic buddy. He said very quickly that it's a bad diode attached directly onto the back of the instrument cluster, and he has dealt with dozens of them and that one had just been in the other day. He said most customers just live with it because the dealership's remedy is they have to replace the instrument cluster/gauge assembly box and that it's too expensive in most customer's eyes. The dealership won't just R&R the diode.
But that doesn't mean I won't try! If I feel like I can de-solder the old one off and solder in something that will work, I'll do it.
Then again I don't need babysitting by some idiot lights. I keep a close eye on my brake-fluid reservoir and I know when my emergency-brake handle is drawn (DUH) so I can do without that brake warning bulb. I can install a voltage meter on/under the dash or with an A-pillar mount and know what's going on with my charging-system so I don't need that bulb either.
And screw you, Toyota, for making customers buy a whole new instrument cluster just because of a little goldang diode!
I just might sell this thing!

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

This must be like High school math class The Op has yet to tell us the value of everything.

Once that is factored into the equation it all should be quite clear .

How many times New Alternators not working out of the box!!

Corroded and thermal cycled B terminal wire to the point of non conductivity .

I think in this case it is the Charge Light Relay because this must now be included in the value of every thing.

Granddaddy

I stated, "Everything is working fine except for the red Charge and Brake lights being on."
I don't understand why all the focus is on fixing the charging system when what I wanted help with is locating the Charge Lamp Relay.
I tried every suggestion until the last resort which is the Charge Lamp Relay but I couldn't find it.
Anyways, everything is under control now. Real problem is isolated; soon to be fixed. Thanks.

scope103

Hmm. A diode would usually fail "open." Which would mean that the Brake light would not be influenced by the Alt light, and would only come on with parking brake or low brake fluid. Not your case (you say).

I suppose it could fail to a "short." In that case, the Brake light would come on whenever the alternator "L" line was at ground (or close). Also not your case.

Of course, if you really incinerated a diode in the Combination meter, there's no telling what got shorted to what. I'm just pretty skeptical of your symptoms pointing to a bad diode.

If it were me, I'd humor Rad4Runner by checking for the "L" voltage at the charge fuse. Yeah, I know you already did everything, but how long could it take?

I hope you're right. DO take some pictures, and let us know how you fare.

In the left kick panel fuse box (JB2), right next to the tail light relay. http://www.toyotapartsoverstock.com/...modelYear=1985 (I said I'd never heard of one, but I learn something new every day.) For what it's worth, that site says the "RELAY ASSY, CHARGE LAMP. IC REGULATOR" was used in the 4Runner/Pickups through 1988. Go figure. I feel I'm doing pretty well to know anything about a 20-yr old vehicle; 26-yr old is pushing it for me.

RAD4Runner

Unsubscribed. Lol!

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Been a long time since I have seen the back of the 89 and up cluster gauge. Is this the SR5 or basic gauge. If you do replace the diode, I would like to see some pictures of where it is located.

NYHumpinUtah

iTrader: (1)

Hey scope103
I see you and rad4runner (Ray) have been doing this for a long time. Do you remember this thread? I was researching where to find a charge lamp relay and came across this thread.
In this thread you have a link that goes to show what the part numbers from Toyota are but the charge lamp relay is discontinued. So my question is, can I use that stock number to try and find one? Do you know where I can find one? Mine is missing, not broke, just not there. Any help would be appreciated
I've reached out to Ray also, but he's probably out camping someplace and having fun.
Hump

Co_94_PU

iTrader: (-1)

You likely dont have one because you don't need one and is was removed by the cost cutting engineering stage.. It doesn't show up in any of the diagrams, that I have or have seen.

While that relay block isnt fully documented in the Toyota literature. That link above shows vaguely where it would be...

Quick simple check is to disable the alternator by unplugging it, if the lamp in the dash comes on you can ignore your lack of this mystery relay.

scope103

So why do you care? So far as "we all" can tell, that relay may (or may not) have been in some 1988 trucks, and never any time after that. If yours is "missing," that sounds like a blessing.

Now, if you have an actual problem, I would address that. I'm with Co_94_PU on that.