Can a bad key switch throw a code 6?
01-23-2018, 06:52 PM
#1
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Can a bad key switch throw a code 6?
Rebuilt 22re 48k miles
Anybody have any experience with 22re throwing a code #6?
Every now and again when I go to start my 4Runner and turn the key nothing happens, just a click. I then turn the key back off and try again. It can take up to 10-15 times to finally get it to crank. And generally fires right up.
But that isn’t always the case. Sometimes it will only crank for a second or 2 and will then just stop cranking. Or it will crank forever and not start.
Also recently developed a miss under load and getting worse than usual gas mileage. Not sure if those are related or not.
Battery holds a great charge, alternator has been tested and starter is in good shape. All grounds have been checked and cleaned. Replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor when rebuilt. Due for a tune up but doubtful that’s my issue and not what’s throwing a code 6
Anybody have any experience with 22re throwing a code #6?
Every now and again when I go to start my 4Runner and turn the key nothing happens, just a click. I then turn the key back off and try again. It can take up to 10-15 times to finally get it to crank. And generally fires right up.
But that isn’t always the case. Sometimes it will only crank for a second or 2 and will then just stop cranking. Or it will crank forever and not start.
Also recently developed a miss under load and getting worse than usual gas mileage. Not sure if those are related or not.
Battery holds a great charge, alternator has been tested and starter is in good shape. All grounds have been checked and cleaned. Replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor when rebuilt. Due for a tune up but doubtful that’s my issue and not what’s throwing a code 6
01-23-2018, 08:04 PM
#2
You have two issues
1) no crank and
2) hard start (combustion), and the latter could be causing the code 6.
Please put us in front of that engine compartment or in cabin.
For Issue 1, click-only but no crank, We need to hear/feel exactly what clicks and where.
For issue 2, do you have fuel? Do you have spark? Searched the forum for hard starts and for how to check for spark and fuel??
1) no crank and
2) hard start (combustion), and the latter could be causing the code 6.
Please put us in front of that engine compartment or in cabin.
For Issue 1, click-only but no crank, We need to hear/feel exactly what clicks and where.
For issue 2, do you have fuel? Do you have spark? Searched the forum for hard starts and for how to check for spark and fuel??
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 01-23-2018 at 08:06 PM.
01-23-2018, 10:22 PM
#3
Visually inspect the FL (fusible link) that feeds the power distribution box (fuse box under the hood). Perform a voltage drop test on it, you will need a volt meter, measure between the battery post positive and the end point (large flat tab) with the circuit loaded (lights, wipers, radio, heater/AC blower fan all on), does it drop volts or millivolts?
What is the battery voltage read(measure between posts on the battery)?
Unplug the connector to the starter(solenoid) what does this read while the key is held in the start position?
Measure the voltage at the engine fuse, located in the main fuse box, do it with the key held in start position. Does it drop below 10volts?
A bad key switch generally will not cause a code six. It's solely the pickup in the distributor and its wiring.
What is the battery voltage read(measure between posts on the battery)?
Unplug the connector to the starter(solenoid) what does this read while the key is held in the start position?
Measure the voltage at the engine fuse, located in the main fuse box, do it with the key held in start position. Does it drop below 10volts?
A bad key switch generally will not cause a code six. It's solely the pickup in the distributor and its wiring.
01-24-2018, 08:05 AM
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You have two issues
1) no crank and
2) hard start (combustion), and the latter could be causing the code 6.
Please put us in front of that engine compartment or in cabin.
For Issue 1, click-only but no crank, We need to hear/feel exactly what clicks and where.
For issue 2, do you have fuel? Do you have spark? Searched the forum for hard starts and for how to check for spark and fuel??
1) no crank and
2) hard start (combustion), and the latter could be causing the code 6.
Please put us in front of that engine compartment or in cabin.
For Issue 1, click-only but no crank, We need to hear/feel exactly what clicks and where.
For issue 2, do you have fuel? Do you have spark? Searched the forum for hard starts and for how to check for spark and fuel??
I will take a video or figure out where the sound is coming from but I believe it’s the starter solenoid. I should add this issue only happens once out of every 30 starts or so.. and the “hard start” only follows after a “no crank” 95% of the time it fires right up without any hesitation.
01-24-2018, 10:25 AM
#5
I will take a video or figure out where the sound is coming from but I believe it’s the starter solenoid. I should add this issue only happens once out of every 30 starts or so.. and the “hard start” only follows after a “no crank” 95% of the time it fires right up without any hesitation.
Please note Toyota Terminology vs U.S. brand Vehicles:
In Toyota terminology "starter relay" is shown here. U.S. brands call that the "starter solenoid" (like these.)
In Toyota terminology "starter solenoid" is the thing that piggy-backs on the starter motor. (I don't know what U.S. brands call that.)
Meanwhile, check if starter solenoid and motor are doing their job this way.
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 01-24-2018 at 10:29 AM.
01-24-2018, 10:51 AM
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Visually inspect the FL (fusible link) that feeds the power distribution box (fuse box under the hood). Perform a voltage drop test on it, you will need a volt meter, measure between the battery post positive and the end point (large flat tab) with the circuit loaded (lights, wipers, radio, heater/AC blower fan all on), does it drop volts or millivolts?
What is the battery voltage read(measure between posts on the battery)?
Unplug the connector to the starter(solenoid) what does this read while the key is held in the start position?
Measure the voltage at the engine fuse, located in the main fuse box, do it with the key held in start position. Does it drop below 10volts?
A bad key switch generally will not cause a code six. It's solely the pickup in the distributor and its wiring.
What is the battery voltage read(measure between posts on the battery)?
Unplug the connector to the starter(solenoid) what does this read while the key is held in the start position?
Measure the voltage at the engine fuse, located in the main fuse box, do it with the key held in start position. Does it drop below 10volts?
A bad key switch generally will not cause a code six. It's solely the pickup in the distributor and its wiring.
I will run all these tests tonight! But these tests will only be accurate if the engine is acting up right? 95% of the time I don’t have any starting issues at all. Thank you for your help!
01-24-2018, 11:19 AM
#7
Ray, I didn't follow those links but..
A relay (typically) bends a reed, a solenoid thrusts a rod/plunger which preforms an action (closing a high amp contact for a starter motor, strumming a rubber band in a pinball machine, latching or unlatching a door) essentially its a linear actuator and the terms are interchangeable. There is a special designation for this style denso starter that I am not recalling, but they are supposed to be more efficient and powerful, it reduces the part count and gives better engagement and probably some other things I'm not recalling.
On an old Ford (I don't know if they still use this system) there is the large solenoid on the fender, it switches the high current to the starter. When the power gets to the starter there is another solenoid to push the starter drive gear into the engines gears.
Ok back on topic..
A relay (typically) bends a reed, a solenoid thrusts a rod/plunger which preforms an action (closing a high amp contact for a starter motor, strumming a rubber band in a pinball machine, latching or unlatching a door) essentially its a linear actuator and the terms are interchangeable. There is a special designation for this style denso starter that I am not recalling, but they are supposed to be more efficient and powerful, it reduces the part count and gives better engagement and probably some other things I'm not recalling.
On an old Ford (I don't know if they still use this system) there is the large solenoid on the fender, it switches the high current to the starter. When the power gets to the starter there is another solenoid to push the starter drive gear into the engines gears.
Ok back on topic..
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01-24-2018, 12:51 PM
#9
...A relay (typically) bends a reed...
a solenoid thrusts a rod/plunger ... its a linear actuator and the terms are interchangeable...
...On an old Ford (I don't know if they still use this system) there is the large solenoid on the fender, it switches the high current to the starter. ..
a solenoid thrusts a rod/plunger ... its a linear actuator and the terms are interchangeable...
...On an old Ford (I don't know if they still use this system) there is the large solenoid on the fender, it switches the high current to the starter. ..
01-24-2018, 01:25 PM
#10
OK, so since the problem is intermittent and O.P. has shown willingness to do this homework, let's make it easy for him 
Shagool22,
There are 3 things most likely to cause your no-crank problem:
1) Wrong wiring of the starter relay from the factory; a proven fact on mid-86 to around 1991 4Runners that even Toyota has documented here. This you absolutely have to fix to make your cranking system reliable. More about that and the fix here.
2) Bad/worn-out starter solenoid contacts. Fix (1) first, then research solenoid contacts. IF you still have the no-crank issue, you would already have info on contact replacement.
3) Poor connection. Something you can fix and after all, I think contacts should be checked, cleaned, tightened at least every 30 years - LOL!
All Contacts from battery, to fuse block, to fuses, to relays. All connection from batt post to cable to starter solenoid to starter mounting where it gets ground from the block to negative cable ground on block, to batt negative terminal and post.
MY BET GOES TO DOING (1) FIRST AND MONITORING FOR A WEEK OR SO. FIX WILL COST YOU $11 OF PARTS AND HALF HOUR TO DO - Less than all the time we spent discussing
Shagool22,
There are 3 things most likely to cause your no-crank problem:
1) Wrong wiring of the starter relay from the factory; a proven fact on mid-86 to around 1991 4Runners that even Toyota has documented here. This you absolutely have to fix to make your cranking system reliable. More about that and the fix here.
2) Bad/worn-out starter solenoid contacts. Fix (1) first, then research solenoid contacts. IF you still have the no-crank issue, you would already have info on contact replacement.
3) Poor connection. Something you can fix and after all, I think contacts should be checked, cleaned, tightened at least every 30 years - LOL!
All Contacts from battery, to fuse block, to fuses, to relays. All connection from batt post to cable to starter solenoid to starter mounting where it gets ground from the block to negative cable ground on block, to batt negative terminal and post.
MY BET GOES TO DOING (1) FIRST AND MONITORING FOR A WEEK OR SO. FIX WILL COST YOU $11 OF PARTS AND HALF HOUR TO DO - Less than all the time we spent discussing
01-24-2018, 04:22 PM
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Shagool22,
There are 3 things most likely to cause your no-crank problem:
1) Wrong wiring of the starter relay from the factory; a proven fact on mid-86 to around 1991 4Runners that even Toyota has documented here. This you absolutely have to fix to make your cranking system reliable. More about that and the fix here.
There are 3 things most likely to cause your no-crank problem:
1) Wrong wiring of the starter relay from the factory; a proven fact on mid-86 to around 1991 4Runners that even Toyota has documented here. This you absolutely have to fix to make your cranking system reliable. More about that and the fix here.
I just read your links and my 87 4Runner WAS factory automatic transmission. I did a 5spd swap. So I have no starter relay right? I don’t see one mounted on the fender Again thank you both for the help, I cannot thank you guys enough. I’m getting ready to pull the started to check out plunger and contacts and give it a good cleaning and or replace if needed.
01-24-2018, 04:29 PM
#12
I see...
So adding a starter relay will apply to yours...
For the past 3 years your ign switch ST1 contacts had been exposed to approx 12 amps necessary to energize the starter solenoid.
Let's see what approx $25 worth of parts to retrofit can do.
So adding a starter relay will apply to yours...
For the past 3 years your ign switch ST1 contacts had been exposed to approx 12 amps necessary to energize the starter solenoid.
Let's see what approx $25 worth of parts to retrofit can do.
01-24-2018, 06:28 PM
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Visually inspect the FL (fusible link) that feeds the power distribution box (fuse box under the hood). Perform a voltage drop test on it, you will need a volt meter, measure between the battery post positive and the end point (large flat tab) with the circuit loaded (lights, wipers, radio, heater/AC blower fan all on), does it drop volts or millivolts?
What is the battery voltage read(measure between posts on the battery)?
Unplug the connector to the starter(solenoid) what does this read while the key is held in the start position?
Measure the voltage at the engine fuse, located in the main fuse box, do it with the key held in start position. Does it drop below 10volts?
A bad key switch generally will not cause a code six. It's solely the pickup in the distributor and its wiring.
What is the battery voltage read(measure between posts on the battery)?
Unplug the connector to the starter(solenoid) what does this read while the key is held in the start position?
Measure the voltage at the engine fuse, located in the main fuse box, do it with the key held in start position. Does it drop below 10volts?
A bad key switch generally will not cause a code six. It's solely the pickup in the distributor and its wiring.
Fusible link with circuit fully loaded meter reads- .15 volts
Battery- 12.75 key off
Connector to starter with key held in start position- 12.25
Voltage at engine fuse with key held in start position- drops to 9.5
Connector to starter with key held in start position- 12.25
Voltage at engine fuse with key held in start position- drops to 9.5
01-24-2018, 06:35 PM
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I will do this hopefully this weekend if I get a chance!Also, I did pull starter and opened it up. One of the contacts is very worn. Looks worn to me anyways lol never pulled one apart before. I’ll attach a picture when i get to my computer. Did not replace them yet.
01-24-2018, 07:03 PM
#15
I hope your starter is OEM so it would be easier to find replacement contacts (One reason I prefer OEM parts is you save time searching for compatible arts/tools, like a dedicated oil filter cap wrench always fits OEM oil filter).
Sounds simple to replace. Little_Lucy just did hers.
01-24-2018, 07:29 PM
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Yes looks very simple to replace.
The starter was in the truck when I bought it 3 years ago with 155k with a rod through the block.
starter has a sticker on it that says “Denso remanufactured for Toyota”
The starter was in the truck when I bought it 3 years ago with 155k with a rod through the block.
starter has a sticker on it that says “Denso remanufactured for Toyota”
Last edited by Shagool22; 01-24-2018 at 07:31 PM.
01-24-2018, 07:43 PM
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Here’s what it does. This specific time I got more cranking than usual. Most the time nothing happens. And when it acts up like this it’s followed by a hard start. But maybe that’s just from holding the key in start position causing fuel to pump and flooding it out a bit?
01-24-2018, 07:51 PM
#18
Might as well replace it as soon as you get the chance/parts. Hold on to that starter; IF you buy another reman OEM, store may only honor OEM for core refund. Try toyotapartsdeal.com for OEM parts. Got my starter from there. 1.0KW for our truck had been discontinued, but 1.4kW one is plug and play.
01-24-2018, 08:12 PM
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Awesome!
Might as well replace it as soon as you get the chance/parts. Hold on to that starter; IF you buy another reman OEM, store may only honor OEM for core refund. Try toyotapartsdeal.com for OEM parts. Got my starter from there. 1.0KW for our truck had been discontinued, but 1.4kW one is plug and play.
Might as well replace it as soon as you get the chance/parts. Hold on to that starter; IF you buy another reman OEM, store may only honor OEM for core refund. Try toyotapartsdeal.com for OEM parts. Got my starter from there. 1.0KW for our truck had been discontinued, but 1.4kW one is plug and play.
Yup I’ll be replacing them as soon as I find the parts! And okay good to know. Hopefully I won’t have to replace the whole unit anytime soon but you never know.
Now to figure out that code 6 lol
01-24-2018, 08:38 PM
#20
IF you get Code 6 when you're having the cranking issue, I hope it's just because ECU is confused. It expects combustion but not getting it, and cranking loads the battery so much it causes too much ripple / voltage to ECU fluctuates.
Here are the codes on 4Crawler's site: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TroubleCodes/
LC Engineering: http://www.lcengineering.com/LCNewsl..._TECHNOTE.html
Here are the codes on 4Crawler's site: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/TroubleCodes/
LC Engineering: http://www.lcengineering.com/LCNewsl..._TECHNOTE.html
Last edited by RAD4Runner; 01-24-2018 at 08:41 PM.
