Thanks, Matt!

BTW, .... do you understand what I'm asking? I'm sorry for being a pest.. but I am really curious.... If I have the Multi-Meter(digital) set at 10V.... It should read 1.00-5.00 volts, ON DISPLAY, right? The reason I am really thinking I have a lazy 02 at this point is because; On the '2V' setting of the Multi-meter... It's reading the same! >>> " 0.220-0.680 "(it doesn't display a zero in the beginning... just making it more straight forward for ya'all.. And cuz I'm a dummy some times, lol)...... If that means is between "2.2/10th's and 6.8/10's" of a SINGLE volt.... I have problems, ................RIGHT?(Which might explain, if it's so, why the "dial indicating volt meter isn't bouncing for me", RIGHT???) HAHAA.... I think I will get out there and swap in the original. There is always a freak chance that my HG blowing right when I started it after my last build caused some damage. BUT, I think, if anything, the thing is just too far back.

Grego.... VERY important question... which I think I know is a 'YES' already....

""DO YOU HAVE A HEATED 02 SENSOR?".... If so, that would EXPLAIN LOTS!

I'ma go ask Ian if his is heated... Same year as yours, in case I don't hear from ya soon.

************************************************** ***********

Sorry guys, no news just yet... Just what I've checked into. I was going to take it in to get 'scoped' today, but the insurance sent a nurse, the nurse that "evaluates him and sees if he's even worthy/needing of in home or nursing home care"...... She was so concerned(for my mother and myself, as well, pertaining to our health)... that she called the lady, which she doesn't do, and said, "Please, I'ma send you this eval... Taking a pic, sending it PDF to ya, can you please expedite this?".... So HOPEFULLY, we'll get the 'Case Worker' over hear QUICKLY! Problem is, in part, .... the case worker is a Social Worker.... Working through the insurance company(kinda like USDA inspectors linger in meat factories, ya feel me? )... Problem would be that EVERYONE, regardless of how well they care for someone, fears what 'the opinion' of 'THOSE PEOPLE' might be, ya know? I'm probably just too stressed to be rational right now(too exhausted too... 8 hours sleep in 3 days, solid GO-GO-GO in between), ....so I'll just have to see. But, in the end, I don't have a choice, ya know? I mean, I can't do this any longer at this pace... It's REALLY, deeply, effecting my health... And, even worse, ...my mom's health.

Thanks for your thoughts(and prayers in some cases)... I/WE appreciate them greatly.

 

One other question;

Did Downey Headers have the 02 Bung RIGHT ON THE HEADER, above the collector? I could SWEAR my White 86 4Runner had a "Downey" header.... and it passed with it every time! NO PROBLEM! Course... it also had a stock cat! lol.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure, it has multiple wires which I understand is a sign that it is heated. I'm not even sure what a heated O2 sensor advantages over a non-heated...hahaha. I think something like it brings it up to a certain temperature faster during a cold start-up.

Yup, mine are these kind:

4 Wire

A 4 wire oxygen sensor may also be referred to as an I-HEGO sensor (Isolated Heated Exhaust Gas Oxygen Sensor). Their operation is similar to 2 wire sensors, except they have two additional wires for an internal two wire pre-heater which enables the sensor to more rapidly achieve proper operating temperature. (I copy and pasted this from sparkplugs.com so don't think I know what I'm talking about..lol)





And it says yours is this kind:

1 Wire

A 1-wire oxygen sensor may also be referred to as an EGO Sensor (Exhaust Gas Sensor). The single wire on this sensor delivers the signal while the ground is achieved through the metal sensor body where it screws into the exhaust manifold. This type of sensor was quickly replaced by the 2 wire sensor because the threads where the sensor screws into the exhaust can easily become corroded, resulting in a degraded ground connection, leading to faulty sensor readings. On the 2 wire sensor, one lead delivers the signal while the second lead is the ground.

 

GREGO... THANKYOU! I am, seriously, very appreciative for you putting in that search, lol... I should have done it, but my brain is stuck on "do all 50 of these things at once... HEY, wait, what about that... oh yeah, and that......".... which leads to a lot of 'FORGET IT' moments(aside from the more urgent ones, OF COURSE! hahaha)...

Ok, ... so you DO have a heated sensor. You also have 2 02sensors. This is good for another thing(2 sensors)... The first 02 Sensor reads pre-cat... second, ...yeah, obviously, post cat, lol. If the secondary flips the code to ya... it's usually a sign that the CAT is junk! Heated helps with cold starts, yes... but it also helps when you have a set up like mine.... Because IT WILL reach 600*F on it's own, not only by the assistance of the 'exhaust gas' temperature.

Here is what I suspected about my 86, having the Downey header......



I KNOW that there is a good reason for keeping the 02 AS CLOSE TO the head as possible. And I've written LCE to ask some pointed questions as to 'how many calls do you get, please tell me?" etc., etc., lol. I think, personally, it's a STUPID design... But obviously, with a heated Sensor... it probably doesn't cause them many problems... And NOT EVERYONE who orders one from them is in CA, either! lol... so it might not be as common of a question as I think it might be.

I could VERY WELL have other issues contributing, ... but I'm REALLY suspicious of those 02 measurements. Granted, I'm using a Digital meter, and not a "Fluke" either.... But as I remember, it was NEVER going above "0.680" or so.... if that means 6/10ths of a volt, then I DO, indeed have an issue. It might be that the reason it seems to run like a bat out of hell upon warm up and a lil smoother is because IT'S NEVER staying in open loop, ya know? YES, much of that is 'coolant temp' sensitive... I know. BUT, if the 02 says "RICH" OR "IT'S SURE NOT VERY HOT BACK HERE, but plenty of stink".... WELL, wouldn't it lean it out dramatically? I mean, it's NOT a 'computer', neither is the ECU... not really. It's a bunch of preset stored levels and measurements that react to 'out of range' and then accompanies those 'out of range' readings with an action... Even the fuel cut is rudimentary, ya know? Your rig, Grego, is FAR more advanced, in many ways, than mine. Even in the EGR dept., it's WAY more able to adjust things due to "Hey, the EGR is not sending me awesome news through the EGR temp sensor... better do 'a' or 'b'", right? Then the 2 02 sensors... That factor is big, too. You also have a pair system, that dramatically helps... But I meant to ask you..... is your pair valve and piping on there with the LCE header?

Sorry, just more rambling, but It's helping me to cope, so whatever, lol.

 

Here's another LCE, I THINK,.... maybe off a 3RZ? Can't figure it out on TTORA... But either way...



WHY WOULDN'T THEY DO THIS on mine????? Why put it so far down the pipe? >>>>

Again, I can't KNOW that's my problem... But dangit if it's not making me suspicious, lol.

 

Chef, and suspicious you should be. I think your on the right track with the postition of the non-heated O2 sensor in your set-up.

Nearly matches your set-up and issue (note the first post by Frankenyota):
http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showfl...r=56583&page=0
He said: "the LCE header has a poorly designed O2 sensor location. Ever since I installed mine my O2 takes too long to heat up and runs rich anywhere but on the highway. I am soon going to buy a heated O2 to solve the problem. The only other way to fix it would be to reinstall the O2 in the collector portion of the header so it will be in the exhaust stream enough to heat up properly."


https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...sensor-252080/
Post 9, 10:
http://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyota...placement.html

So, can you get a heated 4-wire O2 sensor wired into the current position? Hmmmm, wonder how the ECU would like it? Food for thought. lol

Or, cap that position off and have a shop put one in much closer to the engine?

BTW, can you tell I used to drive research librarians crazy digging for more info????

 

Grego....

Just looked at your build pics.... YOU DO have the PAIR pipe on there, and another pipe next to the air intake tube.... what is that? Is that for the PAIR system/maybe some type of smog equipment?

 

HEY, SUP? lol... Sorry, missed this before I posted. Anyway, .... YES, it may be! lol. I'm not sure how to do it.... I KNOW that there are guys that use a "92-96(???) Escort Heated Sensor"... Not sure why, but my Guru Buddy at Japanese Auto Center(head mechanic) told me MONTHS AGO... "This will screw you up"... And I forgot all about it, to be honest. lol. He told me about the Ford Escort Sensor... i guess it's a similar/near exact size, etc., and he said something like "You just run the one wire to it, solder, then the power/heater wires, run them to 'switched(IGN)' power. You'll never get it hot enough to burn anything, ... and it's only one when the rig is RUNNING". I guess it'd have to be powered into something ONLY on while RUNNING, ..... like what? lol. First I wanna run my orig one back there. Also, I NEED AN ANSWER;

Am I wasting my time trying to read this 02 Sensor with a Digital Multi-Meter? (something other than a hi-tech FLUKE or something like that?)??? I mean, I can't get the dial one to work... I tried like 3 times. Then, ran it to power at the battery... it pinned right out to the max... SO WTH? lol.

 

WOW, RW.... why didn't I find these threads? lol... I SWEAR, i've not been lazy on this... Just mentally exhausted, I guess, ya know?

This is REALLY telling, and NOT uncommon, apparently...........

"A non-heated o2 sensor (such as the 1 wire found on a 1985 toyota) MUST be put as close to the engine as possible.

If mounted downstream, the exhaust will cool, and it will not function properly. I've failed smog before, when my o2 was 2' from the engine (base of the firewall), as it would not run as efficiently. After swapping in a new downey header, with a new exhaust, my mpg went from 12-14 to 16-20."

GO FIGURE, my mileage in town is 12-14, NO KIDDING! lol. I KNOW, this isn't conclusive... I'm not holding my breath.. but it CAN'T HELP having a single wire that far back, right? Maybe with my new rebuild it's SO OPEN and breathing with that CAM, ETC., ETC., ...that it's just NOT HOT ENOUGH. Then, it leans out, and when I get on the highway.... 70MPH for 20 miles... IT'S HOT AS HELL, especially the CAT, efficient flow or not! So, it runs with more of a proper mixture, right? That would explain why I go from 12-14MPG city, .....to 20-21HWY. Heck, I might even be losing mileage on the highway if all this is "indeed part of my problem"....

Anyoneeeeeeeeeeee wanna take a stab at my "multi meter question", above? PLEASE? Lol.

 

Hehe.....the key was using 22re non heated o2 sensor in the google search.
I saw a mention of a how-to floating around on Pirate? or someplace else. The hunt is on.

Dunno, on the DMM. Calling 4Crawler.....where is he?

 

Wiring goodies:
http://img1.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=467172
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98945

DENSO
http://www.densoproducts.com/glossar...nsors?&manID=3
in color: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/O2SensorWireColors.html

 

Chef, it looks like Cali smog may fail you for the wiring change according to smogman in a post here #28......gads, I'm glad I moved from Cali 34 years ago!
http://img1.pirate4x4.com/forum/show...php?p=13006037

So, if you can't change the wiring it looks like a relocation of the O2 sensor position?

I'm back to the sidelines....

 

The hose/tube that runs alongside the air intake tube....it is a part of the emission system and connects to a resonator and then to the pair valve. Don't ask me what it does because I don't know!

 

Hey RW, Grego...

Not sure where 4crawler is... Roger has a life, I'm sure, I'm not angry or nuthin, lol.

I'm not even sure on the 02 Sensor testing now, as the only FSM I have from online is the 88yr. one. It's a different sensor... But at page FI-81, it's going into this LONG process which includes VF-E1, then "Short Terminals T-E1", .... I'm lost, man. lol. Again, that's for a heated sensor... so I'm not sure it applies, anyhow. Mine still should show voltage feedback.. But in the Emissions section of the same FSM, it says what I posted before, "hook positive of multi-meter to Ox and negative to E1(? can't remember) and hold rpm at 2500 for 90 seconds, then watch meter, should swing from 1-5 volts, back and forth, 8 times in 10 seconds. Well, in that case, even that alone, I'm not sure what I'm reading on my meter, other than 0.2-0.6 and all over the place in between. Not really consistent. It's very frustrating. If I KNEW what exactly I should be checking I would. I'll keep looking I guess. YUCK! LOL.

Thanks, Grego... see? That's so much more elaborate... And NO WONDER as to why... It got more and more strict, so for yours the numbers are far more strict than mine... and I can't even pass the less strict ones! lol.

 

http://www.utoyot8.com/Picture.aspx?...ccode=&ppName=

Chef, your stock o2 sensor position was where the 17141D stud is?? If so, major diff in temp there to where it now is.

How many wires on your current sensor? From what I read it should be unheated.

 

YES, that's where it is on the stock manifold. Seriously? I'm ready to weep blood! hahahaha. JK, just a moment of AHHHHHHHH! lol.

did you read my last post? Not sure if the VF-E1 and Shorting the E1-T thing applies to mine. The Haynes says, "85 and UP Ox Sensor testing here>>" .... uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! lol.

 

I still have the heat shield, Mani, everything, btw... BUT, the mani has pin holes in it, IIRC... (Did a seafoam test before rebuild and WOW, the downpipe and mani was hissin smoke too, not just from the tailpipe! lol) I removed my new 02 sensor for that cleaning, too. And it was ALL after smog passing test in 2010. I mean, so much on my rig is new, and the motor is REALLY strong... NO strong ticking or tons of valve noise, etc. Just some strange problems. I wonder if a Lazy 02 would cause lots of 'weird chunky running' stuff? lol.

Funny too, in that FI-81 section of the 88FSM.... it says, "test that it fluctuates, then verify the 02 is good on a bench test, ...if so, and the reading is bad, replace the ECU! AHHHHHHHH! lol.

 

You really need an analog meter, specialized DMM, or ideally, an oscilloscope to detect quick voltage transients like that. The display refresh interval on normal DMMs is typically something like one whole second...even with a lot of Fluke models(mine is from ca. 1986, so maybe that doesn't count). That's not a problem if the DMM has peak recall, though. Again, specialized.

 

Hey Dirty Dude!, ............ just had a look through my photo's, last night, of 'adventures in the north/backside of the Angeles!', hahaha. I hit Big Rock Creek on occasion, etc.(sure I told you this, probably... just sayin, lol). Met lots of locals in Little Rock and Pearblossom that I've since stayed in contact with consistently.. You near Devils Punchbowl and all that? (Sorry, again, if I've asked you this... Just TOTALLY spacing right now, lol.. Forgive me)

Yeah, I hear ya... My buddy had a SICK meter, and he checked a few things on it a couple years ago when we were troubleshooting... It was very quick, etc.(as I remember him saying I think)... He's in AZ for a few months, so no chance to get my hands on that most likely.

I guess it'll be best to probably get it into the Smog Repair guys I was told about and see what they find. Hopefully they'll have a handle on the culprit quickly!

 

You referring to the procedure on page FI-80? It does show using an analog MM.

On FI-82 it talks about testing the heater resistance of O2 sensor.....but yours is unheated.

There is a 79-85 Pickup/4Runner 22RE FSM on TTORA...wonder what is has?