DeVore007

Ok guys, any help or ideas here would be greatly appreciated.....I have a 93 pickup with the 3.0. I live in Iowa, and as it started cooling down outside my truck became harder to start in the mornings. I thought it was fuel pump so that's where I started along w/ new filter and no change, since then I have done cold start injector & switch, plugs, wires, rotor, cap. MAF, ignitor, coil, ECU, fuel pressure regulator, new battery this summer, Engine coolant sensor, and circuit opening relay. Now that we are in winter, when I try starting the truck it just turns over and over and over.....However, if I pull start the truck it starts! Once it is pull started, I can shut it off and it will continue to start w/ the turn of the key. Next day, it won't start again.......Any ideas? I bought a block heater tonight, gonna try that tomorrow.

coryc85

By pull start, do you mean that you get the truck moving and pop the clutch? If it starts easily that way, I'd almost venture to say your starter is weak. Does it crank slowly with the starter? Check the condition of your battery to starter cable and your engine ground.

DeVore007

Yes, that is what I mean. Litterally only have to pull it 5 ft and pop the clutch and fires right up. The starter doesn't really sound week, and the battery is new.

Paul22RE

If the connections between battery to ground and starter are all tight and corrosion free, first thing I would do is replace the plunger & 2 contacts in the starter. Only about ten bucks and pretty easy to do.

87-4runner

Have you tried starting it using the
CLUTCH
START
CANCEL
button?
also i don't know if the neutral safety switch might cause such an issue... just thinking out of the box here... without doing much thinking. . Lol
Maybe if it starts using the
CLUTCH
START
CANCEL
button, it would be indicative of something wrong with the NSS... just sayin.

DeVore007

No, it does the same thing even with the clutch start cancel switch. Where is the neutral safety switch located and what is it's purpose?

scope103

The Park/Neutral Position Switch (Neutral Start Switch) is a feature of Automatic Transmissions. That, and the Clutch Start Switch on manuals, interrupts the starter circuit. If DeVore's starter spins, it's not that circuit

Hmmm. Did you try replacing the left turn signal bulb?

Were any of these parts changed for a reason? What do you mean when you say you have "done cold start injector & switch ..."?

Your problem does sound like a CSI issue. So before you start throwing more parts at it (is your arm sore yet?), you might just test it. Pick out a reasonably cool day. Pull the CSI out of the plenum (do NOT disconnect the fuel line -- if you do that, you MUST replace the crush washers). Put a rag into the hole into the plenum (you don't want to suck up anything when you crank it). Put the injector into a suitable container, and have your assistant crank it. You should get a nice, fine, spray for a few seconds, which should shut off even if still cranking (and shut off once you stop cranking).

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

concur with most of the above, except that with the manual transmission, should be able to get the CSI to operate without worrying about the engine cranking (and thus sucking anything into the plenum). thus, the rag is superfluous. with the CSI backed away from the plenum, but the tip still aimed at the hole, turn the key to "start" position. CSI should spray fuel, engine should not crank (ie, starter should not operate); operation is verified if the CSI sprays fuel. [this assumes that the "clutch start cancel" functions correctly, and the engine will NOT start with the key turned to "start" with the clutch disengaged and the button NOT pressed].

scope103

Good point. (Since I have an auto, I don't know much about how the clutch start switch works.)

This shouldn't work with an auto. The PN switch is in the same circuit as the CSI, so if you turn the key to start with the transmission in D (to keep the starter from turning) the CSI should not spray.

DeVore007

I have tested the CSI and it is working properly....I was throwing new parts at it based off of codes I was getting from the check engine light.....I'm no longer getting a check engine light. (Started with the 14, and 25 code). I'm also not a mechanic, so I would read forums and see similar issues, and just try replacing parts. One again though, I no longer have any codes or check engine light.

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

correct. in my auto-equipped toyotas, i cannot get the CSI to spray unless the starter is engaged (same for the fuel pump, it will run in a manual-equipped 22re from '84-89 using the same method, but the pump won't run in the autos - ignoring using a jumper at the diagnostic port for now).

DeVore007

Scope, what would the turn signal have to do with anything? or was that just a joke for all the part i've been throwing at it?

wallytoo

iTrader: (1)

RAD4Runner

Wait. A problem well-stated is almost solved.
= combustion problem
"Fires right up"; meaning it does not "turn over and over and over" before you see, hear, feel, smell combustion? = cranking problem

1) Is the starter energetically turning the engine but you do not see, hear, feel, smell combustion = VROOM? Then, you have a combustion problem.
2) Does the starter only energetically turn the engine only turn and you get combustion when you bump-start? Then, you have a cranking problem.
3) How did you DO the CSI and the CSI timer switch? Measured voltage? Measured resistance? Cleaned them AND MOUNTING THREADS to bare, shiny metal? Replaced them?

DeVore007

I replaced the CSI and CSI switch, also made sure it was working correctly during a cold start by doing the test mentioned above.

I don't really understand what you mean about the starter "energetically" turning the engine. The started doesn't seem week, it doesn't just spin or anything like that. The truck does have good spark. You can hear it trying to fire on the cylinders, and it eventually starts to smell like fuel. It just wont start.

What I mean by "fires right up" is I can pull the truck about 5 foot, pop the clutch, and it starts.

Before I had the complete no start, I could literally crank and crank with the key for about 5 minutes (taking breaks, not continuous) and it would eventually take off and start.

RAD4Runner

How about a brief update of where you are now? I repeat (revised questions):
1) Is the starter energetically turning the engine but you do not see, hear, feel, smell combustion = VROOM? Then, you have a combustion problem.
2) Does the starter only energetically turn engine only turn and you get combustion when you bump-start? Then, you have a cranking problem.


Energetically meaning the starter turns the engine strongly, not weakly. So to rephrase, my question is "Does the starter turn the engine strongly?"

So you mean that earlier the engine energetically turned the engine for a long time before you have combustion? That was a combustion issue (air, fuel, spark)
But now you have "complete no start" meaning the starter would not even turn the engine? That is a cranking issue battery could have died from all the cranking you did.

RAD4Runner

Duplicate post.

DeVore007

RAD4Runner

Cool. So now we're clear that it is not a cranking problem, but a combustion problem. (Let's use those clearly defined terms because "starting" is vague).

Sounds like a temp-dependent problem, OR dependent upon building high enough pressure in the fuel lines at first start and keeping it up during the day.

Did you clean mounting threads on engine block / thermostat housing for sensors with only one wire leading to them? Sensor uses bare, shiny metal of mounting threads to get ground.

Have you checked fuel pressure? After truck has ran normally, something in the fuel pump and lines normally keeps fuel pressure in the line up for several minutes after you shutdown. Some of us installed fuel pressure gage piggybacked on CSI to monitor those. One less thing to doubt when troubleshooting so worth the investment. My write-up here.

Also, Could someone chime in where the fuel pressure up VSV is on the 3.0? The vacuum line to furl pressure regulator, if unplugged and plugged back in, exposing diaphragm to atmosphere or vacuum should affect fuel pressure (unplugging to expose to atmosphere will increase fuel pressure). That a test that's free and worth trying.
Video on 22R-E here: