nate V

put it to the axle and pull it with any 22r or 22re and see what happens

thats whay i own a 3.0

enough said

1990Runner

mine gets me where im going with all the power i NEED. not to say that i wouldnt love a 3.4 swap from santa.. or anybody thats givin'em out

elripster

Johnboy if you can post up some acceleration numbers not only can I pull out the rear wheel mean power but we can compare it to our trucks. It's useful.

Frank

312necro213

The basic fact is:
ANYTHING can be fast for the right price.
The difference between the 3.4 swap and upgrading the 3.slow:
3.4 swap has huge down time
3.slow upgrades can be done in a couple hours work (most of them)
3.4 swap is a HUGE chunk of money all at once
3.slow upgrades can be done over the years and generally cost less then the 3.4 does alone much less the parts needed.
3.4 has more power yes but california won't smog it in a 3.slow rig.
3.slow upgrades take a lot less inginuity.

Bottom line:
ANYTHING can be fast for the right price.
theres a isuzu trooper with a hayabusa engine in it that can run a 12 second quarter mile. so bottom line is $$$. Not engine.

elripster

Actually, the 3.4 is totally smog-able in Ca. The law is the replacement engine has to be of the same year or newer and have all of its smog equipment installed and functioning.

I agree though, it's a big deal to do an engine swap.

Frank

thook

I'd be happy if I could just get a 5spd behind mine.

tc

The point is that you're not starting off in a good place with the 3.0. The power/economy ratio is horrible. The ECU runs WAY too rich. To make more power, all you're gonna do is burn MORE fuel.

On top of that, you have the headgasket issues.

Molly's rebuilt motor taking a crap after 20,000 miles instantly changed my opinion of this engine.

The 3.4 is a MUCH better base to work mods off of. It has a good power/economy ratio - by the time you get to horrible mileage numbers, the engine will be making REAL power with good reliability.

CoedNaked

That's weird. The reports I have heard suggest the ECU runs on the leaner side with the 3vze and actually richening the mixture helps power & economy on this engine. Also don't know what you mean by "power and economy." My buddies 5vz-fe 2003 Tacoma xtracab 4x4 5 speed gets just slightly better mileage than my truck (maybe 1 MPG at best), and his truck weighs about 500-600 pounds less than mine (I have heavy duty camper bars and I run a cap as well, plus my truck stock is about 400 pounds heavier than his without this stuff). My truck also has the same transmission ratios as his, but I have a 4.56 rear end compared to his I believe it's either 4.10 or 4.30's, so my truck naturally rev's more at the same speeds compared to his.

Which headgasket issues? The 22RE also blows more head gaskets than people are willing to admit. My truck hasn't blown a head gasket. My uncle's 95 Pickup 3vze 4x4 xtra cab 5 speed with nearly 300,000 miles hasn't blown a headgasket. My buddies uncle's truck which was a 94 identical to mine had 195,000 miles on it when he sold it and it had never blown a head gasket and he definately used that truck.

Who's to say that a head gasket on a rebuild blowing wasn't the fault of the builder? Do you know for a fact that everything was done properly rebuild wise?

The 3.4 doesn't respnd as well to modifications as one would lead you to believe. Sure, an exhaust, & headers might give you a tiny bit more pep much like it does on the 3vze but it's the guys who run forced induction that are making huge numbers. Because forced induction on a 3vze hasn't been attempted by that many individuals, and because there isn't a factory supercharger for the 3vze, many people automaticaly write it off and hypothesize (as if they have some sort of personal experience to back it up) that it will jsut blow head gasket after head gasket with forced induction.

I think you have drawn your conclusions a little too early.

bigtrucknwheels

well put Coed.

I've spent many many hours reading 3vze threads. its always a few bad apples that ruin the bunch. I see a lot of guys doing a HG on a 22R-E, but thats no biggie. but the crappy ol' 3.0 blows one, everyone bashes it instantly. I beat upon my truck, h.g.'s are original equipment, and I'm approaching 200k here. no signs of failure either. redesign the crossover pipe, it seems, fixes 95% of the truck's problem. Considering it is quite possibly one of the worst Toyota engines ever built according to everyone and their brother's neighbor, it still has an outstanding ability to take a beating and continue to be pretty darn reliable.

how many of you, 3.0 haters or lovers, doesn't matter, would drive a domestic vehicle as cocky as you drive your Yota? not many. guess what, even babied, the domestics see more shop time than the 3.0. its not the best engine ever, but it's done it's job right. not like the 4cyl offered that year had close numbers in HP or anything like that.

FI on a 3vze, its been done, with success. Thats why I am going that route instead of a swap. 5vzfe; 40 hp more for such a hefty price tag? kidding me...

the 22R-E gains too much credit for what it is. it's problems are often over looked, and the high milers are placed on a golden throne. 3VZE problems are over dramatized, and you guys and girls know it. It breaks down, and everyone knocks on it soo bad. the high milers? well, they just got lucky is all. At this point I'd like to mention that of all the people I know that own Toyota's, none have ever had to rebuild the 3.0. Guess what? I know two people with 3g trucks, 22R-E, that have had to rebuild. put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Elvota

Sure seems like there is a lot of "guessing" going on in this thread.

No real numbers, no real results... just ideas and feedback. All good, but very subjective.

I personally don't knock the 3.0 except for low power. I think it's a fine motor, will get the job done and generally has strong reliability. I had 230,000 miles on mine before the swap.

A fair majority of the above postings are hear-say, theory and rumor. I for one have had a 3.0, added headers, improved the intake, fully rebuilt... all that jazz. I just recently swapped in a 3.4. It's ridiculous to compare the two, they are night and day.

No I have no tests.
No I am not going to dyno it.
No I don't really care if I didn't tweak the 3.0 enough for more HP.

All I know is that a 3.4, in stock condition comparatively flies. I can't believe how much stronger my 4Runner can run!! It's not about top speed or raw acceleration for me... but just pure grunt.

I did my swap for around $1600 and in about 2 weeks when all was said and done. I only wish I had just swapped the motor before putting any time, effort or money into the 3.0. You just can't get to 3.4 power without endless time and tweaking on the 3.0 in my opinion... even assuming 190 HP is possible from the older V6.

Congratulations JohnBoy on spending money how you wanted and getting the results you hoped for. That's the goal we all share when we mod our trucks. Nothing better than a good result after all that hard work.

UncleBob

I'm gonna 'tweak' my cams when I get home tonight!


I, too, want to ROAST my 33's.

nate V

Maybe I missed it but was it eplained how to tweak your cams.....?
or are you just blowing smoke

tc

First - read my posts coed, I have said time and again that "in the grand scheme of all motors, the 3.0 is REALLY good - it's just not up to Toyota's usual engineering standards". I agree that the 22R/E headgasket issue is rushed under the table - I had one blow on my '89. I would love to see a FI setup for the 3.0, and I truly believe that the engine will take it, but where to put it?. One other factor we haven't discussed is there is NO room in the 3.0 engine bay - I had to shoehorn my little ARB compressor in there, let alone a turbo with all the piping!

Molly's truck blew a headgasket resently. Before she bought the truck 20k miles ago, it was totally rebuilt. The work was done by an experienced Toyota tech who has done a million of them under the recall. Did something happen? Maybe, but it's a safe bet that it was done as well as anyone could, and it STILL blew.

Let me be clear - I am not advocating people take out a running 3.0 to put a 3.4 in. But if you blow your 3.0, you're a damn fool to put another one back in.

I still haven't seen the cost of all these mods that were done. I'm willing to bet they're in the same price range as a 3.4 swap, and the 3.0 is now maxed out - that's about all you're gonna get out of it, and you're just matching a STOCK 3.4.

For those at lower altitudes the difference may be less noticeable, but for those of us up here at >5000 ft it's a HUGE deal.

Brenjen

I'm with you. When/if it blows I'll more than likely put in a 3.4 rather than rebuild the 3.0, it just makes sense to me.



& I'm with you on that; run it until it gives up the ghost & then swap in a better engineered motor. My 3.0 is fine right now right where it is, if decides to go south on me the truck will get a junkyard 3.4 swap.

rentedmule

I just want to be clear that I wasn't hating on the 3.0, I was just pointing out the obvious fact that there was no dyno #'s to back up any of the questionable claims that were made. My 3.0 ran great and it served the purpose it was designed for in my 'runner.

The fact that so many of the claims made were based on what someone at DOA racing said should sound some huge alarm bells - search around for people's opinions on them and you'll see how reliable a source that is!!!

runethechamp

I want somebody to explain to me why the stock fan is supposed to suck so many horsepowers out of the 3VZE.

johnsenpa

What some old truckin man told me one time was, you can do all that stuff to your engine, but also get the death clock ticking a little faster as well. I don't believe the engineers at toyota are that dumb to overlook some of these things. Every engine mod has a reaction both positive and negative and I guess it is just weighing them out. I suspect their understanding of the engines engineering is far greater than mine. My 3.0 get me to where I like to play and I know it will last as long as I keep the systems to their designed specifications.

It is nice to dress them up and makes yours different then the rest but at what cost to the engine's are you going a different way.

I realize that money and extra engine to build up would be awesome and fun to do, but I just speaking in terms of this is all I have and need/want it to last (forever?).

I am anxious to see how many times I have to play Frankenstein with mine. Only 106,000 on my 1990 3.0 4runner. Still in its' prime. Hoping to keep the problem free streak going another 200,000. HAHAHA Here's hopin

thook

The fan clutch requires power to turn it when it becomes operational...which comes directly from the engine. Not to mention, it's tied in with other components via drivebelt. It only makes a difference with folks who really the few extra hp's to add up.

rentedmule

the clutch fan is spun by a belt attached to the crank pulley. it takes engine power to turn any accessory attached to the crank therefore it takes a certain amount of HP to operate the fan. it's the same reason why your gas mileage goes down when you have the A/C on.

electric fans also take battery power to work but they're more efficient than engine driven fans and are only on when they're needed (unless you have them wired to stay on all the time). In a similar manner, race vehicles also use electric water pumps and power steering pumps to reduce parasitic load on their engine. the down side is that arguably none of the electric accessories are as reliable as the mechanically driven ones.

edit: slow on the draw - basically what thook said

86 flatbed

well running that exhaust is not helping you at all. your engine needs some back pressure. so you are robbing yourself of power.