SKNKWRX

After spending almost 2 years trying to determine whats a better route build a 3.0 or swap a 3.4 and getting so many differing opinions I have been hard at work on a really custom mod to my rig. We fabbed up a turbo system for my 3.0 complete with intercooler running about 9lbs of boost. Then I gutted the cargo area and we put in a 3.4 V6 in the rear and slapped on the TRD SC for added power to match the 3.0T in front. I now have one engine powering the front wheels and the other powering the rear and now I dont have to worry about wich engine is best as I have both of them. The only problem we were left with was wich engine would be robbed of power to run the alternator and AC and so on. I didnt want to decide what axel would have less power so we ripped out the back seats and dropped in the 4.2 Lexus V8 to run electrical and cooling systems and so on and now all my 3.0/3.4 power goes to the wheels. Ill try to post up some pics tomorrow its a really trick setup cost me a ton but at least I no longer have to listen to threads like this.

b.miller123

I apologize if I came off as rude or something. That wasn't what I was going for. I was simply taking note of how fast this thread got way off track and full of useless bickering. <<-- Maybe I should have put that in my first post.

My point is that the OP simply started a thread where he described a bunch of stuff that he did to his engine, and how he thinks it's an improvement. Then a bunch of people hop on here telling him how much money he wasted and why they are glad that they don't have a 3.0. Sorry, I don't think this is the place for it (How about the thread a few days ago that was asking why people don't like 3.0s?). Then the thread turned into a 22-RE vs. 3.0, and 3.4 vs. 3.0 debate (Again, not the place for it). Then people start talking about electric fans (Could be reasonable here, as people are actually talking about modifications, not joining in on the latest pissing contest).

Another thing that the OP did was list the sites he went to. Then he let people know that if they have questions about what he did to his engine, to go ahead and ask. I'm not sure but I don't think he asked: "How much money did I waste putting it into a 3.0? What engine is better than a 3.0? Should I have done a 3.4 swap?"


^^ He pretty much echoes how I feel about what the original poster did to his truck.

Hey mods: Is there any way that we could get a sticky for debate about how good/bad a 3.0 is? Or a 22-RE vs. 3.0? Or 3.0 vs. 3.4 swap? Maybe then everyone will have a place to go, instead of posting nonsense where it doesn't belong. I'm not joking or trying to be rude either, I am 100% serious.

seafarinman

I loved my 3.0 but well it is not producing enough power anymore to motivate my truck on the trail (SAS/5.29's locked front and rear/37" MTR's/real bumpers and armor). Works okay on the road though. Since I didn't want to spend the $$$$ on the engine only to have to go through this again later, I got a 2RZ/R151F/dual ultimate crawler setup and it will all be installed for less than the cost of getting my 3VZ-E rebuilt. It will have 8hp/20tq less that the 3.0 when it was running GREAT, which was quite a while ago now. I know that I can make up the power/torque difference easily enough.

thook

In that case, it is funny.....

Sorry....my panties weren't riding right.

(Ungh! There....better.)

b.miller123

I haven't laughed that hard in a while

thook

Don't laugh, man. I think it's going to scar.

312necro213

Thankyou for the info I will be performing some of these mods shortly due to my shortcoming of knowledge and shortcoming of my pocketbook Thanks again johny

tc

While the thread has indeed taken a turn away from the original topic, it still begs the question, and the OP should have the answers ...

Which is more cost effective, building the 3.0, or swapping a 3.4?

The cost of a 3.4 swap are well documented, as is the power of stock and modified 3.4's.

We need to know the cost of these mods, and the actual power output - period.


My $0.02 are that he spent what a swap would cost and maybe got into the same power range. So financially, it's probably a wash, but throw in the intangibles of reliability issues, aftermarket support, room in the engine bay, etc and the scales start to weigh heavily in favor of the swap.

elripster

Johnboy, take that truck out to a flat road and do some 0-whatever runs. PM me or post up and I'll extrapolate your mean power. Also, other can compare their vehicle's performance against it including those with 3.4's.

It's not as good as dyno testing but it's a lot better than nothing.

Frank

motoracer47

lol, your not the bright one ehh? the reason it say "to ing death" is because the forum will not let you say: beat to ****ing (imagine a four letter word you do with a girl) death

now i know you know nothing about toyota engines
3vze--3 liter, 2 valve per cylinder, single over-head cam engine made by toyota that gets poor power for its brake specific fuel consumption

3vzfe--3 liter, 4 valve per cylinder, dual over-head cam engine made by toyota that gets considerably better power and brake specific fuel consumption

And really, that proves my point about the crappy 3vze. Both engines have the exact same bore and stroke (obviously making them the same displacement) and yet the 3vzfe is able to produce 30 more horsepower, and the exact same torque, and would get better fuel economy (in a runner) while doing it.

To the people that want to compare 3vze to a 5vzfe. First convert your 3vze
to meet the more stringent OBD2 emission regulations that the 5vzfe has to meet (all 5vzfe are obd2), then talk. No one knows for sure, but here is a very educated guess:

3vze under OBD2----135-140sh hp 160torque 15-17miles per gallon at best.

how do you like my grammar now, is it easier for you to understand? I was half drunk when I wrote the original post, so pretty please with sprinkles on top, forgive me. However, it still does not change the fact that im correct, and, well, the people talking about doing worthless mods that get them 40-50 horsepower are not. so, yes, im sorry, I am not the worlds greatest speller, I feel you have me covered in that regard. I have no doubt I know considerably more about what im talking about then you do, sorry

My problem with threads like this? Simple bro (oops, I said bro, I clearly must be from the streets), some poor kid that does not know as much about engines reads these pointless threads, and then thinks they can go drop about 1500 in mods that in the end, really do not do squat, and they just wasted their hard earned cash-- thats my problem, yotatech is full if dis-information, and im just trying to do my part to stop it.

so, im sorry I offended your engine, clearly I understand you being upset as you designed it and all

btw, does everyone notice that the original starter of this thread has not come back to address any of these questions? is it possible he too got suckered in and spent all that money and wants to justify it now? is it maybe possible that he does not really exsist and its really someone who works for one of those performance shops and is just trying to get newbs to buy their products? he will never produce the results, because the results dont exsist. I will never trust a dyno sheet from a shop trying to sell me a product because anyone who knows anything about dynos knows how much you can cheat on them. You can get a 5-10 wheel horsepower difference just by playing with tire pressures on the dyno, let alone changing the software parameters. I know for a fact he did not get that power, because he did not remove the bottlenecks in the system. What system you ask? the gas flow system. A common mistake is for people to think by throwing on some headers, that they will get all this increased gas flow and tons of power---simply wrong. Put a large throttle body on and not address the restrictive intake, the very poor flowing upper and lower intake manifolds---sorry, but wrong. Is it possible to get these gain from a 3vze---yes, heres how

1. remove engine from truck
2. completely dis-assemble said engine
3. perform whats called a mild street port--smooth any ridges in the intake track but leave a rough finish for fuel atomization. Smooth out the short side radius of the port. Open up the bowl area just below the valve seats to create a Venturi effect. Do the same on the exhaust, however polish the exhaust and combustion chamber to help prevent carbon build up.
4. Properly designed equal length headers, preferably with fairly long primaries for torque.
5. completely redesign the intake manifold, or cut it in half and port all of it, including the lower intake manifold (its been done, there is a write-up somewhere on here how to do it)
6. get some cams with increased duration and lift--nothing crazy, i believe DOA or LC has them?
7. *maybe get a larger throttle body, im not convinced if even this setup would need it, a stock motor, no way in hell would it ever need a larger throttle body*
8. rebuild engine with quality parts-dont use anything but clevite 77s on your mains or rods----I warned you now, dont make me tell you I told you so when you have rod knock in 20k miles. (btw, assemble in the usually way, lol, yes a joke on toyota factory manuals, they say that all the time)
9. install a piggy back fuel computer (smt6, ect) that will allow you to: get rid of the restrictive flapper door maf, and actually tune the engine somewhat to actually be able to get this new found power that you will have because of the proper mods made to increase flow throughout the entire SYSTEM

system is the key to all of this. YOU CANNOT MOD JUST ONE OR 2 PORTIONS AND EXPECT A GAIN you have to view it for what it is, a complex, inter-related system where one thing depends on another

i believe that and will yield about a 40-50 horsepower gain, and similar torque, you will lose fuel economy however.

So whats my point? my point is that people should not post up threads, advertising and endorsing 3rd party vendor products, when they cannot prove any of it.
your a super-mod, how many of those vendors contribute to yotatech? how many buy advertising spots here?
so, Elvota, in my best bruce willis from die hard- quite being part of the ****ing problem and start being part of the solution---btw, i think you mis-spelled exactly oh yes, some of your assumptions about my lingo "the streets" "rapstar acadamy" could be construed as racist. I know its not, your just old--- hence why this forum is what it is, hence why their are better forums out there. yes i know Elvota, go ahead and ban me, show how yotatech works. you know what forum im talking about, no,I have no affiliation with them at all, with the exception that I, like them, know what im talking about and was tired of the non-sense that goes on here. I guess the reason they left to start their own, who knows.

Elvota

Really, I mean really? All that effort to curse? I knew what "ING" meant in the first place, just felt it was ridiculous to go to the effort and get past the sensor to imply it anyway. But now you've one upped yourself. Impressive. Even if you haven't found the shift key yet, you have become very adept with the space bar.

Thank you for clearing that up. I actually thought you had mistyped 5vzfe, since a majority of your rant was poorly constructed, punctuated and capitalized. Not that it matters, but that type of haggard text tends to lead to confusion.

That said, I have learned something from you. I did not know much about the 3vzfe engine. Truly seems like it has a lot going for it over the 3vze. Maybe there is an application for a Camry motor in a 4Runner or Pickup.

Most likely this point isn't directed at me... but I could be wrong. My only real opinion about this thread was that it made more sense to me to swap in a 5vzfe instead of putting a lot of money into a 3vze for limited and generally untested gains. However, I feel the original poster has succeeded in his choice to modify the 3vze as he is happy with the results.

Actually, I am still unimpressed... not that it matters. My only criticism to your grammar and entry style was that it makes it hard for others to read. Your points may very well be valid, but cursing and smashing all your ideas together makes them much harder to get across. Maybe you should just read YT fully drunk and don't post, then save your posting for times you are sober.

We don't want you puking all over your keyboard now do we.

I somewhat agree with you. The idea of YotaTech (as well as other boards) is to discuss ideas, bring about other options and learn from each other. Thing is, the OP wasn't asking for input... just trying to offer options for mods he had done and why he felt others should do them as well.

Not really sure where that comment comes from... as I was neither defending or attacking any Toyota motor. Speaking from experience, I feel the 5vzfe is an amazing upgrade over the 3vze... but that's not the topic of this thread.

I think most here would agree with you that modding the 3vze is not the best way to go... but I don't see any real reason to completely dismiss or worse berate the OP for what he has done to his motor.

Did he get the gains he is claiming... probably not. Is he happy with the results he did get... probably was before posting them for others to share.

Elvota

I don't have a problem with spelling, just jumbled, confusing sentences that lose the valid points and input you have to share. If I was in your position, I'd want others to fully understand what I am trying to say, and not want my words or ideas to be confusing.

The reason I wondered if you went to such an academy was from your lingo, nothing to do with race. It is you that implied such lingo is from a certain race, and that rap can't be enjoyed by us all. Although, I generally would not give as much weight to thermal dynamic advice from a rap star as well as I would listen to it from someone with training or experience in the field as you seem to have. Use street lingo to sound street, use the best grammar possible to sound educated.

Or don't. Who knows... I am oldizzle fo' shizzle anywizzle.

As far as better forums, I am sure there are... as opinions will vary. Personally, I enjoy YT and feel the knowledge here runs deep while a friendly atmosphere is maintained. If more aggressive forums that allow cursing and flaming are to your liking, then you have plenty to choose from.

Why would I ban you? I don't mind differing opinions. You are pushing the rules with your creative use of the asterisk and space bar... but that's another matter.

If you enjoy other boards and feel information that can be found there is better, than why bother posting here? Your knowledge and input is appreciated, and the information you have posted will be helpful to others... if they have the patience to muddle through all the extra fat that came along with it.

This whole thing has gone way to far off topic to be helpful to anyone. I've read your point and made mine. To go further, you can PM me if you wish.

Vohaul

Well, I'll just throw in my thoughts on the 3.0 power / no pwer..should I swap it debate...

I have no problems with my 3.0...

my truck came to me with a 3.0 already equipped with headers, crane coil..AND 35's...4.56 gears..

I here lots of complaints about this motor...but I'm happy with mine...has tons of power..lots of get up and go...(well..maybe ot in 5th up a hill..) can do the highway fine...now my opinion is completely unbiased..as ive never driven a 3.0 with the normal exhaust or normal size tires...

Always starts...always goes...until i'm given a reason to think this motor is garbage...im loving it....Its sure a lot better on fuel than my old 302 powered f150

cheers

Paul

motoracer47

lol elvota, im not sure i know what oldizzle fo' shizzle anywizzle means either. I am truly sorry about how I structure my sentences on a message forum, however, we dont come here for literary perfection. In real life, in work situations, I have no problem with people understanding my wording. That being said, this isnt real life, for me atleast, automotive forums are more like tech journals, and I believe that If you look at an engineering scratchbook, or machinist, or computer programmers notepads and forums, I believe you will find that some of them also speak sometimes in "broken" sentences. Its less typing, gets the point across faster to like minded individuals. I have no problem with you, I do appologize for attacking. However, I have read and reread my originaly post several times now, and I clearly do not see anywhere in it where I specifically attacked anything YOU said. You are correct, I should not have posted the first post drunk, oopps my bad. I dont believe my points are wrong though. Sorry, I took it personally, people often do that. So id prefer not to do this pm, I want people to see that I am agreeing with your point about me, I have no problem admiting I am wrong. However, you did not start the thread, I feel you have no right to attack me because you--dont like my sentence structure, sorry I dont believe thats it. I think you mainly just didnt like what I was saying. I agree with you also that the 5vz-fe is a great engine, far better than a 3vze. I dont believe it to be the best option. I dont want to talk about what im working on, well, because I plan to offer a kit, I dont need someone else seeing pictures of the custom engine mounts, or the modified manifold, replicating it, and getting it to market faster than I can because the have the funds that I do not. Again, my main point is that threads like this could lead to someone sinking money into areas that they dont need to, and it tends to happen alot.

back on topic: you can get power in a 3vze, refer to the instructions in my post. If people really want to believe that its just that easy (throw some headers on, put in a larger throttle body, well, many places will be glad to take your money). Is a 3vze garbage? Well, whats the definition of that? Compared to engines designed in the 30s and 40s? Yea, its a pretty damn good motor. Compared to other Toyota/Honda/Nissan/BMW engines of the same era? its crap. That does not mean its not reliable, its just a very in-efficient motor, thats all. These engines have had numerous issues though, and simply cannot be overlooked.

I think the biggest point about this thread, and why im trying to dispell "rumors" about its modification is this: Look how many people are interested in more power. Alot! The truth is, 90% or more of the people who own this engine are not satisfied with it. Companies that profit from people buying their products know this, and will try to sell stuff, regardless if it really gives the perfomance claims they claim. The person who started this thread had a grand total of 5 posts, probably not what people would say is "experienced" in the forums, but look HOW MANY people are just drooling over dyno sheets. Heres where I become the big mean person. I dont have a problem with the thread starter, I have a problem with all the people that WANT to believe it, when they know in their hearts its just not true. Everything about these engines have been done, all you have to do is search the forums to FIND the answers, but everyone just wants it handed to them. Well, I gave it. Follow my steps, it is really the only correct way, everything else is just a piece of the puzzle. If you cannot afford to completely rebuild your engine properly, wait untill you can. But alas, they will not, most will keep waiting for that one "magic part" that they install in 15 mins, gives them 30 horsepower, and increases milleage by 30%

heres a link to something that I contributed to this forum a long time ago. No bling, its not sexy, doesnt give you more power, but it works, and works well, and I make no money on it
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...install-77290/

b.miller123

motoracer- I agree with you on the first part that I have quoted here. Most people are looking for an easy fix to complicated problems. Most wind up spending more than they care to remember, and don't get what they wanted.

Anyways, I am not trying to jump into the middle of anything or pee in anybody's cheerios. I am just curious about the fan (in the thread that you linked to). I'll post my question in that thread.

phildelfino

I have read most of this thread. I always read 3.slo threads. I have one in my 88 4Runner with an auto trans. I have no idea how much HP this motor has from the factory. I know it is not enough because as I am climbing any hill or slight incline, the overdrive kicks down into 3rd gear and I must floor this little sucker to keep going at least 50 MPH at the top. A running start is always welcomed, but you can't always do 75 or 80 in the bottoms. Living in Reno, NV is great for fishing and camping cuz the mountains are so close. I can go from here ( 4400 feet in alt. ) to 10K feet in 40 minutes. FI on my Toy is good for that. But the MPG is sucky. I also have an 87 Dodge W 150 with a 318 V8. The mileage per gallon is equal between the 2 ( 12 to 15 MPG ). I expected more MPG from my 4Runner before I bought it. I also wish it had a manual trans cuz from what I read here, they get get better MPG. All in all though, if I could do it all over, I would buy an 84 4Runner and just swap the motor right away and be done with it, V 6 and a 5 speed.
I won't put any money into this 3.slo for any amount of HP gain. I'll just wait for it to blow and swap.

tc

Yeah, phil - the auto is a huge part of the problem. You would think it's a different truck if you swapped in a manual tranny.

yotaman8819

idk y everyone has to talk so much about the 3.0 its really not that bad of a motor i bought my 95 4runner and i rebuilt the motor 2 years ago myself i give it pure hell everyday and i mean PURE hell it has straight pipe exhaust no cat no muffler i get 18 miles to the gallon in town i have 33 1250 super swamper boggers on it with the 3.0 and a 5 speed my motor has been great it will burn the out of both back tires with no problems and i can get it past 110 mph on the interstate I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH MY 3.0

yotaman8819

and ive put 60000 miles on it in the past 2 years and it still is running great

tibbycruiser

If you think your 3.0 is slow go drive a f or 2f powered landcruiser.
The 3slow is not really that bad.