rentedmule

it doesn't need backpressure, it needs the correct flow pattern to allow for proper gas scavenging.

runethechamp

I hear all that, but the clutch fan is almost never on. I'm pretty sure I can count the number of times my fan has been on on one hand in the 8 years I've had my 4runner. It's the same thing here, it doesn't run unless it's needed.

And I would also like someone to explain to me why a mechanical coupling is less effective than generating electricity and then using that electricity to run a fan. The generator will give that extra resistance back when it needs to power the fan, right? I hear about these fans all the time here and I just don't buy the claims of improvement they give.

nate V

I totally see them being used for race applications but simply can not see the point that people are using them on their truck or suv ...just not worth it if you ask me.
Like stated above all other mods to the engine would need to be completed before being able to see the difference that a electric can would provide.
if any at all.
not an expert just me .02

rentedmule

almost every new car i've looked at in the past year has had an e-fan from the factory. I have no idea how they're more efficient but I have had 2 different dyno operators tell me that they're almost always good for some HP.

nate V

I can see why they are coming from the factory like that because they are more efficient with respect to reliability. no clutch. less moving parts
or
newer smaller more efficient radiators which would require the fans to be running more often ........just a thought

b.miller123

This thread is funny.

Here is a breakdown for you:

Part 1: I put a ton of crap on my 3.0, it's awesome!! I got like 40 horsepower!!!

Part 2: Please show us a dyno chart.

Part 3: I don't have a dyno chart.

Part 4: 3.0's suck BIGTIME!!!! You wasted tons of money and you should have done a 3.4 swap.

Part 5: I like my 3.0, it is what it is.

Part 6: 22-RE's are overrated and slow.

Part 7: How do electric fans work?

Part 8: This is how they work.

Part 9: This is how they work (again).

Part 10: Why do people spend money on electric fans?

Part 11: Because they think they are cool and they give them like 2.38 horsepower.

to be continued............................

JCM4x89pu

electric fans might give you an extra couple horsepower, but im planning on doing it to let the engine run cooler (without getting below effective operating temperature).. you can buy a brand new high performance industrial fan for around $130.. the same ones they use in ferraris. the cooler the engine runs the longer it will last.

the headgasket issues with the 3.0 are due to having aluminum heads (just like the 22re).. the headgasket recall on the 3.0 was due to the fact that they stopped using asbestos headgaskets (the 3.0 was designed to use asbestos).. the the aluminum heads expand at a faster rate than the block when it heats up. this causes the asbestos free gasket to tear every time your engine heats up too fast, and it eventually fails.

you can also keep your heads a lot cooler with headers.. sure you might also get a few horsepower out of it, but you're also protecting the headgaskets, and giving them a longer life.

as an added note.. how many people really let their engine warm up slowly when it's cold?? ..not many.. even though toyota warns you not to over-rev the engine before it warms up if you have aluminum heads.

i love my 3.0, it always gets me where i need to go.. even when the headgasket blew at 235,000 miles, and i had 2 cylinders flooded and blowing coolant sraight out the exhaust pipe (the heads cracked right around the exhaust valves) ..and i continued to drive it for the rest of the week.. reaching speeds up to 100mph.. thats right.. on a blown toyota engine.. and the block, crank, bearings, and pistons are still just fine.. i rebuilt it for under $1000, and she runs better than ever.

it's a TOYOTA engine.. bitch all you want, i love mine.

thook

Aren't you the observant one? Why post if you think the thread is....well....funny? What's your point?

sdoolin

Just another data point - I can't resist posting to this thread.

I own a 1991 2WD pickup. 3VZE with a 5 speed. I am the original owner. It is box stock - it has the headgasket "fix". I used this truck for 3 years solid to drag 2 Jap racebikes will all anciliary crap all around the country in the mid 1990s. It was also my daily driver at that time. It currently has 246,000+ miles on it. I have run full synthetic oil in it (lets argue about that please) since day one, and have kept up with all regular maintenance. It has been slightly injured (wrecked) twice with cosmetic damage and repair. I'd drive the thing to Alaska (I am in KY) tomorrow without hesitation. Is it fast - more on that later.

I also own one each 1987 and 1988 4Runner - each with a 22RE. Both are 5 SPD. I am the second owner of each of them. Both were well cared for by the original owners and now by me. One has just received a complete rebuild - but with no major upgrades (just a cam and light head work). One is perfect inside and out body and interior - I'd show it if there were shows for old Toyota SUVs. The other is a rustbucket painted camo with spray cans.

I will tell anyone, anywhere, anytime that my 2WD 3.slow is a bunch faster than either of my 22RE powered trucks. No, I have not dyno-ed them (but I have a 1996 KTM Duke that makes a confirmed 52 HP).

Not sure why folks argue about the 3.slow vs the 22RE. Each has good points and bad points. I guess I am with the camp that feels like each engine has merit, neither is fast. If you want fast, get an Audi R8.

JCM4x89pu

i think i was part 12 haha
just take care of your engine.. if you're a leadfoot like i am, let your truck warm up for a bit.. and find asbestos headgaskets if you can!! if you want more power, do a swap..
if you want a reliable engine with decent power, learn as much as you can about letting the 3vze breath, how the ECU works, and if possible learn how to modify existing parts, or fabricate upgrades (or spend $$).. remember that you dont have to use vehical specific parts or kits.. you can buy mechanical components from industrial manufacturers.. the good companies usually will have a blueprint or cad drawing online.. such as the fan i mentioned above.. so you can plan before you buy.
the 3.0 is choked by smog equipment, especialy here in california. the stock exhaust manifold and crossover is crap and gets those heads pretty hot. headers from LCE or Downey are an excellent mod for the 3.0.
the smog equipment can be bypassed.. and for those of you love nature like i do.. if done right, you end up using less gas per trip.. meaning that you are actually releasing a smaller volume of emission gasses per trip.. and the catalytic converter does the rest
oversized valves are good too, as are cam upgrades, and etc ($$$) but i like what you can do cheaply with a little craftsmanship.. for example, an airbox mod that works both as a low profile snorkle, and cold air intake.. i found the basic idea for it right here on yotatech.. search around the internet, polish your turd.. the 3vze is a good engine. it just needs a few modifications. you can do it cheaply if you know how, have the right tools, and can make or source your own parts.

JCM4x89pu

i recommend mobil 1 synthetic oil and oil filters.. dont even get my started on why their is the best, and the economical choice despite the high price.

oh.. and the 3.0 is begging for a supercharger from a pontiac.
... and i believe that the 3.0 can handle forced induction reliably.. obviously to an extent.. with stock internals.

Mattabilly

My 3.Slo is way faster....







....than my old 22R! It's treated me well, I felt the 22R was easier to work on but the 3.0 let's me pass cars and go the speed limit on passes. I plan on driving it until it quits and then entertain the idea of a 3.4 swap.

jtlinna3vze

im glad you said this.. i hate when people say its the engine itself that is to blame for the recalls.. many a engine has been produced with aluminum heads. but also with the correct gaskets.. this is the one things that gets me hot about people who talk bad about the 3vze.. they say there bad they blow head gaskets!! and its the gaskets fault.. when it dies ill upgrade.. but ill stick with it till then.. its only got 104,000 on it..

tc

Wait sdoolin - you're comparing a V6 2WD truck to a 4cyl 4WD 4Runner, and you think that's fair?

Nobody argues that the 3VZE makes more power than the 22RE - put it in a truck that's probably well over 500 lbs lighter, of course it feels fast!

Put it in a 4WD second gen 4Runner with 500 lbs of armor and crap, then take that truck up to 7000 ft elevation, and you have a real DOG.

JCM4x89pu

i agree.. at that elevation,with the added weight from being a 4runner and having armor upgrades, and larger tires, it would be a dog.. but it was not designed for those conditions.. do you think a 22re or 22rte would be an upgrade?.. (and dont get me wrong, i love the 22r series engines).. it's just that different applications require different approaches. under these conditions a 5vzfe swapped 4runner with armor upgrades and larger tires would have a similiar weight/horsepower ratio to a stock 3vze truck.

sdoolin

I never said I was being fair. I was offering a point of reference. I have had excellent overall performance out of my 3VZE based vehicle. I have also had excellent performance out of my 1976 VW Westy bus (not at 7000 ft though) - but that is a different thread.

motoracer47

lol, by far the best part about this thread, by far!!!lol



easy, because if any would bother to do a SEARCH, they would quickly realize that this topical has been BEAT TO ING DEATH over, and over, and over, and yes, wait for it... OVER!!!

the simple fact--does the 3slow suck ass---no, there are worse motors, just probably not with the toyota name on it.

is the 5vzfe better---yes-fact-pure and simple. if you you want to argue it, bring yo thermal dynamics knowledge and compressible fluid flow knowledge, and ill be happy to explain it.

to make it simple, all things being equal, 4 valves per cylinder will ALWAYS get more power per liter, and be more efficient than 2 valves. 2-valve per cylinder usually is better for torque, but that fact is right now in 2008, a 4 valver can equal 2 valver in torque when properly designed, and again will always be more efficient.

you give me a 3vze and a 3vzfe, give me an equal budget to modify both, and ill bet the title to my truck, ill get more power from the 3vzfe and better economy.

it just amazes me how much this continues to be discussed.

(besides, everyone has continuously overlooked the best possible swap for this truck, and i should have my kit available in 6 months. the mounts are done, the manifold has been modified, now im sorting the electrics. i will not say what engine it is yet, but its a toyota, there are tons of them available on ebay for cheap, they are better than the 3vze, and no one has swapped one. (no, not a uz series) )

Elvota

Uhmmm... if you are going to rant, can you rant so others can have a chance of understanding you...?

Topical... like tropical island or topical antiseptic...? "BEAT TO ING DEATH", what language is that?


Do you have a shift key on your keyboard? Would it kill you to use it after a period? Where did you go to school, the RapStar Academy. I heard they bring the study of thermal dynamics strong to the streets... yo.

So you'll bet your title that you can make a 3vzfe run better than a 3vze? What exactley is your point? Doesn't a 3vzfe = a 3vze? What does feeling ill have to do with any of this anyway? Or is that more street lingo?

You got me hanging on the edge of my seat. Please let us know what this amazing swap is that is just on the verge of cresting the horizon.

thook

I know what his point was. I've been on the forum long enough and read these 3.0 discussions enough. But, he was being smug and impolite....and so are you.... to those who still take interest in the discussion for whatever reason that is. Besides, if you'll notice, the OP wasn't asking a question. He was making an encouraging statement.

Adam F

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