88 Toyota pickup still not starting!!
01-06-2012, 04:58 PM
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88 Toyota pickup still not starting!!
So I posted this yesterday, but have eliminated some more stuff, so if anyone could please please help!!!
bear with me here, its gona be a little long
So for about a year now my 1988 Toyota 4x4 22re pickup has every now and then not been starting. This happened perhaps once a month, then about once a week, and now it is every time I try and start it.
What is happening is when I turn the key, with or without the safety cancel for the clutch, all the electrical works, I can hear the starter engaging as well as the fuel pump, but the truck doesn't start, It Wont Even Turn Over.
Now sometimes when I just sit there holding the key it will suddenly start after a little while, or sometimes it won't. Sometimes I can start it by push starting it (although it might just be coincidence), and sometimes that doesn't work either.
I had an extra starter when down and got it tested, it worked fine, put it in, didn't change a thing
Put in my extra coil, didn't change a thing
Re-stripped the wires going to my battery terminal, as well as cleaned that, didn't help
bypassed the circuit for the safety cancel and little button that the clutch pedal pushes by connecting those two wires, which again didn't work.
Replaced Relays in the drivers kicker panel, and that didnt help
I know its not the fuel pump, because after I do end up getting the thing started after several attempts, the engine is flooded
Now one thing I have thought is that the prob could be the flywheel, but that makes no sense because sometimes after it won't start, I will try an hour or so later, with out even so much as moving the truck an inch, and it will start, leaving me thinking it is an electrical problem, and also leaving me very confused.
bear with me here, its gona be a little long
So for about a year now my 1988 Toyota 4x4 22re pickup has every now and then not been starting. This happened perhaps once a month, then about once a week, and now it is every time I try and start it.
What is happening is when I turn the key, with or without the safety cancel for the clutch, all the electrical works, I can hear the starter engaging as well as the fuel pump, but the truck doesn't start, It Wont Even Turn Over.
Now sometimes when I just sit there holding the key it will suddenly start after a little while, or sometimes it won't. Sometimes I can start it by push starting it (although it might just be coincidence), and sometimes that doesn't work either.
I had an extra starter when down and got it tested, it worked fine, put it in, didn't change a thing
Put in my extra coil, didn't change a thing
Re-stripped the wires going to my battery terminal, as well as cleaned that, didn't help
bypassed the circuit for the safety cancel and little button that the clutch pedal pushes by connecting those two wires, which again didn't work.
Replaced Relays in the drivers kicker panel, and that didnt help
I know its not the fuel pump, because after I do end up getting the thing started after several attempts, the engine is flooded
Now one thing I have thought is that the prob could be the flywheel, but that makes no sense because sometimes after it won't start, I will try an hour or so later, with out even so much as moving the truck an inch, and it will start, leaving me thinking it is an electrical problem, and also leaving me very confused.
01-06-2012, 05:07 PM
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First off, cranking [turning over] and starting are 2 different things.
Your starter simply cranks the engine [spins it].
Once it's spinning and the ECU sees it's spinning it will give fuel and spark to actually start the engine.
So, if you're having trouble getting the engine to crank forget about fuel/spark.
Focus on the starter circuitry.
Second, bench testing a starter is pretty much useless.
A marginal starter that won't always work in the truck will usually pass a bench test because the starter gets as much or more power [from the battery] and has way less work to do [only spins itself instead of an engine].
USUALLY if the starter clicks but won't crank the engine it's the battery or starter contacts.
Have your battery tested [in the vehicle], if it tests ok make sure the wiring to and from the starter is good [not just the battery ends]. Also make sure the STA wire [black? wire that clips into the starter] is ok.
If these are all good replace your starter contacts [or you could start with that, wouldn't hurt regardless].
Your starter simply cranks the engine [spins it].
Once it's spinning and the ECU sees it's spinning it will give fuel and spark to actually start the engine.
So, if you're having trouble getting the engine to crank forget about fuel/spark.
Focus on the starter circuitry.
Second, bench testing a starter is pretty much useless.
A marginal starter that won't always work in the truck will usually pass a bench test because the starter gets as much or more power [from the battery] and has way less work to do [only spins itself instead of an engine].
USUALLY if the starter clicks but won't crank the engine it's the battery or starter contacts.
Have your battery tested [in the vehicle], if it tests ok make sure the wiring to and from the starter is good [not just the battery ends]. Also make sure the STA wire [black? wire that clips into the starter] is ok.
If these are all good replace your starter contacts [or you could start with that, wouldn't hurt regardless].
01-06-2012, 05:27 PM
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Second, bench testing a starter is pretty much useless.
A marginal starter that won't always work in the truck will usually pass a bench test because the starter gets as much or more power [from the battery] and has way less work to do [only spins itself instead of an engine.]
A marginal starter that won't always work in the truck will usually pass a bench test because the starter gets as much or more power [from the battery] and has way less work to do [only spins itself instead of an engine.]
USUALLY if the starter clicks but won't crank the engine it's the battery or starter contacts.
Have your battery tested [in the vehicle], if it tests ok make sure the wiring to and from the starter is good [not just the battery ends]. Also make sure the STA wire [black? wire that clips into the starter] is ok.
If these are all good replace your starter contacts [or you could start with that, wouldn't hurt regardless].
Have your battery tested [in the vehicle], if it tests ok make sure the wiring to and from the starter is good [not just the battery ends]. Also make sure the STA wire [black? wire that clips into the starter] is ok.
If these are all good replace your starter contacts [or you could start with that, wouldn't hurt regardless].
Good luck!
Last edited by 93YotaGuy; 01-06-2012 at 05:29 PM.
01-06-2012, 05:32 PM
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Thanks 
I usually run my heavy gauge ground directly to one of the starter bolts.
That will make the biggest difference in the starter circuit.
Grounding the battery to the chassis and grounding the head to the block and chassis will [may] make a difference in charging and ECU function.
I usually run my heavy gauge ground directly to one of the starter bolts.
That will make the biggest difference in the starter circuit.
Grounding the battery to the chassis and grounding the head to the block and chassis will [may] make a difference in charging and ECU function.
01-06-2012, 06:08 PM
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In 88, all the current to engage the starter goes though the ignition switch, even if you happen to have a starter relay "factory" installed.
I'd suggest simply jumping batt voltage to the start terminal on the starter and see if the starter turns over. If so, you may need a "real" relay on the starter circuit.
I'd suggest simply jumping batt voltage to the start terminal on the starter and see if the starter turns over. If so, you may need a "real" relay on the starter circuit.
01-08-2012, 06:42 PM
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Low voltage on the starter wire under load is your liely culprit...
This is a post I made on a similar thread earlier today. If you have a Volt-meter I highly suggest doing this...
I fought an intermittent, random, never-wants-to-start-when-you-realy-need-it-to problem for a long time
. I whacked it, and sometimes that worked, I would charge up the battery and sometimes that worked, I fiddled with grounds, and swapped out the starter at least 3 times, each time thinking that was the issue that was going to solve the problem... it didnt
The final solution was adding a relay to send battery power directly to the starter, using the actual starter wire as the trigger for the realy.
The test that confirmed my issue was done by using a volt-meter, conect one end of the voltmeter to the battery ground, and plug the other into the starter wire with it still attached to the starter (that way it is still hooked up to the "load" during the test). When I turned the key, and read the voltage on the meter, it showed only 8-9 volts, even with the batter at 12-13 volts. over time the wiring degrades and builds up resistance which drops the voltage on its round-about path to the actual starter.
With the relay installed, the 8-9 volts coming from the starter wire is more than enough to switch on the relay which then fires a solid 12 volts to the starter. starts every time now.
. I whacked it, and sometimes that worked, I would charge up the battery and sometimes that worked, I fiddled with grounds, and swapped out the starter at least 3 times, each time thinking that was the issue that was going to solve the problem... it didntThe final solution was adding a relay to send battery power directly to the starter, using the actual starter wire as the trigger for the realy.
The test that confirmed my issue was done by using a volt-meter, conect one end of the voltmeter to the battery ground, and plug the other into the starter wire with it still attached to the starter (that way it is still hooked up to the "load" during the test). When I turned the key, and read the voltage on the meter, it showed only 8-9 volts, even with the batter at 12-13 volts. over time the wiring degrades and builds up resistance which drops the voltage on its round-about path to the actual starter.
With the relay installed, the 8-9 volts coming from the starter wire is more than enough to switch on the relay which then fires a solid 12 volts to the starter. starts every time now.
01-09-2012, 06:58 PM
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ignition swith
thanks for all the great advice and help!!
I did end up just running a wire from battery to starter and it worked, making the prob in the ignition just like abecedarian said. So i just ended up running a wire with a button to the starter and battery bypassing the whole ignition.
Thanks again for all the help and advice!
I did end up just running a wire from battery to starter and it worked, making the prob in the ignition just like abecedarian said. So i just ended up running a wire with a button to the starter and battery bypassing the whole ignition.
Thanks again for all the help and advice!
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