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87 4runner Ignition switch problems?

Old 05-28-2019, 04:16 PM
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87 4runner Ignition switch problems?

I recently rescued my old 87 4runner 22re from death due to neglect. I had sold it years ago to a family friend and it broke down 5 years ago, and he never fixed it. I got it back home a few days ago and am putting it back together. Right now I have a good alternator, and have checked?replaced all the fuses. I hooked up a battery today and I have Hazard lights, horn, blower and headlights.

NO turn signals.

NO dash lights except hazards and high beam indicators

Nothing happens when I turn the key when I pulled the ignition fuse (7.5, drivers side kick board) and repleced it with the key in ACC I got "clicks" sO I have current to there at least.


Any ideas on where to start? I am still waiting on my Hynes manual in the mail, and am still learning to read wiring diagrams, so sorting through the internet's infinite sources if unreliable information as proven frustrating at best.


I have multimeter and sort of know how to use it.


Thanks for your help.
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Old 05-28-2019, 06:36 PM
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Welcome to YotaTech.

The Haynes manual isn't the FSM, but it's fine. To get some practice with your multimeter, check for voltage-to-ground at each fuse (there are two metal points accessible at the top of the fuse -- if voltage on only one, the fuse is open. If zero voltage on each, there is no voltage TO the fuse). This will give you a picture of which fuses are controlled by the ignition switch.

If you're new to multimeters, always start with a sanity check by touching the probes to the battery posts. This should eliminate having the meter on the wrong range, the probes in the wrong sockets, etc. You're looking for about 12.6v (temperature dependent); if you get less than about 12.1 the battery is too discharged to go much further.
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:03 PM
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Start with DMM like Scope says ^^^ then...
There should be 12V at all times to Pins 4 and 8 of Ign SW.

Then 12V to 1,2,3 7 as you turn ign ket to appropriate positions...


Good luck!
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:43 AM
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Ok so with some very generous sharing of information and a multimeter I believe I have solved the Issue. Thank you.
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Old 05-31-2019, 11:13 AM
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Uh, you're supposed to tell us what you did. The suspense is killing all of us!
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:38 PM
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I'm a little embarrassed... turns out that empty space in the fuse block marked AM1 is supposed to have a fuse in it. But in my defense, I was working on the assumption that the previous owner had not touched any fuses before he left it to rot, and that not all the spaces in the block are used. I did however get a lot of practice reading wiring diagrams and testing circuits. So I ended up testing the circuit all the way from the ignition back to the fuse.

Now the engine turns over but hasn't run yet, save for a few spurts and stutters. I think my starter is bad and/or my battery connections. So i'm headed to autozone to get the starter tested and a new set of terminal clamps, to go with my new, and already a little abused, battery.

Reasons being:
1. inconsistent or slow cranking speed, seemingly heavy draw.
2. Hot battery terminals and starter power cable.

One more thing: Is it worth getting a new starter form the dealership, and dealership fuel filter? Or just go with Autozone stock?
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:56 PM
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Thanks for sharing your finding so others may learn.
Slow cranking...
1) Your starter is MOST LIKELY OK. However your truck was WIRED WRONG AT THE FACTORY. explained and fixed here:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...runner-307493/
2) Yes, get battery checked and clean all connections to bare, shiny metal, including thick batt positive to starter solenoid, AND thick batt negative to engine block.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by FjordWarrden View Post
One more thing: Is it worth getting a new starter form the dealership, and dealership fuel filter? Or just go with Autozone stock?
Don't think new Toyota factory starters are available. Toyota does sell reman.

I had to replace my starter on my 92 pickup recently because the bearings were bad. Was cranking the engine over, but it was making a lot of grinding noise doing it. I bought a Carquest 1.0 Kw version with lifetime warranty. There is a 1.4 Kw version too, but they did not have it in stock, and it was going to take a while to get one. The 1.4 and 1.0 Kw are the same price. After using an Advance Auto 25% discount code, and a $5 off Speed Perks reward the starter cost me $44.93 out the door. It's been installed a week today, and it's doing just fine.
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Old 05-31-2019, 06:44 PM
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1.4KW Starter, Reman with Toyota Warranty

I usually stick with OEM,.especially for parts that only need to be replaced every 10 or so years,
I got a 1.4KW Starter, Reman with Toyota Warranty from Toyota Parts Deal online.
Not too expensive.
EASY, plug and play replacement.
Again, starter is most likely good. Worst case you may need contacts, BUT not until you fix what are known to be absolutely broken like I mention above.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:52 PM
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So today I took the starter out and had it tested at autozone, they said it was good. I also checked the distributor positioning, It seemed off, so I reset to top dead center, and re installed the distributor. I also got new terminal claps as the old lead ones where a bit loose. I cleaned the engine block ground and the fender ground to the battery.
My battery is actually brand new, I picked it up this morning, a optima red cap, got a killer deal on it by asking for a price match. Even though the manager at Autozone said they would not price match online retailers, she checked the computer to see what she could do and it was actually $10 less than the Amazon price.
I'm going to reinstall the starter to night.
I'm debating on if I want to install the duralast fuel filter I have or wait for a factory one....or do both. It is a bit of a pain in the ass.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by RAD4Runner View Post
Thanks for sharing your finding so others may learn.
Slow cranking...
1) Your starter is MOST LIKELY OK. However your truck was WIRED WRONG AT THE FACTORY. explained and fixed here:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...runner-307493/
2) Yes, get battery checked and clean all connections to bare, shiny metal, including thick batt positive to starter solenoid, AND thick batt negative to engine block.
Hmm..I would never have thought to question the factory wiring, I am a bit hesitant change it. How many people have performed this modification?
excuse my suspicion, if i have learned one thing in my years, its that the internet is a wealth of information but most of it is not reliable.
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by FjordWarrden View Post
... if i have learned one thing in my years, its that the internet is a wealth of information but most of it is not reliable.
Wise call, and YotaTech is probably no exception.

The magic of Rad4Runner's suggestion is that he lays out the reason for it. You can make your own decision. I've got a '94, in which Toyota installed a starter relay, so I don't have to make that decision. Rad4Runner's plan is just a way of "upgrading" your rig to the later design.

The key to all of this is test, test, test. You got your starter tested at the store (for what that's worth). Others just guess and replace a part because they don't know how to test. I think Rad4Runner is generally correct when he points out that the components rarely fail, it's the inter-connects. So test them.
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by scope103 View Post
Wise call, and YotaTech is probably no exception.

The magic of Rad4Runner's suggestion is that he lays out the reason for it. You can make your own decision. I've got a '94, in which Toyota installed a starter relay, so I don't have to make that decision. Rad4Runner's plan is just a way of "upgrading" your rig to the later design.

The key to all of this is test, test, test. You got your starter tested at the store (for what that's worth). Others just guess and replace a part because they don't know how to test. I think Rad4Runner is generally correct when he points out that the components rarely fail, it's the inter-connects. So test them.
Well as I dwell on that...I just reinstalled the starter and tried starting it again. Same thing really slow chugging, it caught once or twice for a second and then dies with a rather unsettling noise kinda grindy. I'll try and post video tomorrow.
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:39 AM
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I can tell you for a fact that the starter testing machines are not 100% reliable. 2009 Honda Civic starter showed good on the machine at Advance Auto. I had already checked everything, and I knew it had to be the starter. Put a new starter on it, and it's worked fine for years now.

Anyway, not saying it's the starter. Just saying the testing machines can be wrong.

Try jump starting your battery when you crank it again. Let me know what happens.

Last edited by snippits; 06-01-2019 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:21 PM
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I actually had the "new" battery tested today, as it was drained from trying to start the 22re all day, it tested bad. Although I had used another battery out of another truck when I first tried and the results where the same, and it started the other truck just fine (95 tacoma 2.4l) I am going to try a voltage drop test on the starter cables and see if that turns anything up.
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Old 06-01-2019, 01:51 PM
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I tried jumping it off the other truck, results where slightly better. I did notice that on occasional tries I would get nothing but the "CLICK" just one as the relay opened. It also did better when I would wait a little between attempts. THings are still inconsistent sometimes it would chugg really slow, and the dash lights would dim heavily, others it would turn over fairly well and catch and idle for a half a second or so. Could this be a result of that factory mis wire that I was informed of earlier?

I ran across this article from LC engineering is this a solution to the same miss wiring problem? http://www.lcengineering.com/LCNewsl...elay_Tech.html

Haven't managed to do the voltage drop test yet because of a lack of extra hands.

Thanks again for everyone's help.
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Old 06-02-2019, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FjordWarrden View Post
...
I ran across this article from LC engineering is this a solution to the same miss wiring problem? http://www.lcengineering.com/LCNewsl...elay_Tech.html...
Exactly same as I'm talking about IF you do not have a starter relay (like Kevin's - kidvermicious - 85).
IF you already have a starter relay, just rewire it for < $15.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:31 AM
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Happy Ending everyone!
Yesterday I did the "$15" rewired for the starter, tried starting still the same, then I did voltage drop test on the starter: ground circuit 0.0 volts Power cable no greater than 0.3 volts. I suspected that the timing may have been very off so I very carefully watched a video on how to reinstall the distributor, I then went and checked mine and found that it was off, rotor was just past the #1 at TDC so it would be firing way to early, with little to no compression. So I reset the distributor and....Vroom! She started right up. All that's left now is to adjust the valves, finish flushing the coolant system, find 2 blts for my catalytic converter flanges, and discover where the back up light switch wire goes that's hanging from the transmission. Along with a large number of minor restoration projects.

So to conclude: 1987 4runner has been sitting for 5 or 6 years- Won't start.
1) new AM1 fuse
2) Oil change, new fuel, coolant flush
3) Starter re-wire
4) New plugs
5) Reset Distributor position
6) new power steering idler pulley bearing
STARTS
Left to do.
1) Valve adjustment (very noisy)
2) Miscellaneous nuts and bolts.

Thank you everyone for all your help, you have been invaluable. I have learned a lot. I look forward to collaborating with you all in the future.
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