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3vze header install; heat management questions

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3vze header install; heat management questions

Old 07-30-2018, 05:34 PM
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3vze header install; heat management questions

Hey all
I've done mostly browsing on here and not enough posting.

I am going to put in some ebay stainless headers that are swamping ebay right now for the 3vze. They were only $160 shipped, otherwise I would never spend the money on headers for my '88 3vze 4wd with 230,000. It runs like a champ though with lots of tune ups and the 7mge afm + borla, and I couldn't resist the project with such cheap stainless headers that got some decent reviews by ebay buyers. I will attempt to document and do a thread on it if I have the time; I'll be racing the clock as usual.

I have done a lot of reading on most threads about putting headers in and the various challenges. My biggest concern is dealing with heat because I have no lift kit and I'm not putting one in. I have a heat blanket for the firewall, starter blanket, heat "tube" for various lines, tape, and I bought some header wrap for the AC lines. Today I actually crawled in there to check it out, and noticed a lot of excess coiled brake lines and how close to everything it will be. The main opinion I am seeking is about header wrap. I have come the conclusion that essentially wrapping headers is bad due to the trapping of moisture and will prematurely crack the pipes. However, I am wondering if "spot" wrapping just the passenger side would be as bad, because I don't think I would need to wrap the whole thing. Looking for second opinions on this. Another idea I had was making a tunnel with recycled heat guards from other exhausts, and adhering the heat blanket on the outside. It's been a while since I've seen any posts on 3vze headers...most have probably moved on to bigger better things, but regardless I'm casting this line. Any input is welcome!

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Old 07-30-2018, 06:10 PM
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If it's just 1 or 2 places where you have a concern with heat build a shield between the header and the part.
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:40 PM
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I assume you are looking at the DNA headers? Very interested in how the install goes and what you think of the quality of the headers. The price is definitely right. Couple of things i did not like about them are the slip joints and clamps vs ball ends and flanges, and that their system does not incorporate the catalytic converter but for the price i can see why they did not incorporate those features.

One thing that can really help with heat control is ceramic coating, but it adds to the cost. Personally i would not install any headers that are not ceramic coated but that is just me.

The cost on some of the other brands are just cost prohibitive. The northwest off-road versions look to be one of the better designs, but very expensive.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:58 AM
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Yes I am thinking I will likely build a custom shield or tunnel, as I read about someone else doing that, as well as wrapping lines and such.

Andy; yes I believe they are the DNA's. I can weld so I'm not worried about the cheesy slip joints for now, I will likely install it then weld on flanges after. I am just happy they are stainless, and made for the 3vze! I will likely just move and chop my exhaust further back to accept that cat. My system is set up so the cat and borla are bolted to each other so I can just move them as a unit, though it might be a bit low depending how far back it gets moved. I don't like not having a cat, it stinks and sounds terrible in my opinion (drone), not to mention the emissions. I will try to post some pics and a review. I agree that ceramic coating is the best option, but I'm just not interested in spending the $$ for just the exhaust system. Others have found ways to install headers without blowing up gas lines etc, I'll just take my time with the heat management. I think for now I will avoid using the wrap as everyone seems to advise against it for any portion of a pipe. I just hope the thing fits. The torsion bar might be a trouble spot for clearing, but I'll make it work. Thanks for input, I will update as hopefully I tackle this soon.
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Old 07-31-2018, 10:49 AM
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After I posted about making a shield I recalled that I had picked up exhaust shields from parts yards for an old race car I had. There are a number of different shapes and sizes and with brackets attached. You may want to take a couple pictures of your truck with you and do some searching. Once you have something close you can always cut or bent it to fit.
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Old 07-31-2018, 01:07 PM
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Yes I think I am going to make a shield/tunnel for some of it. I have some old shielding laying around in various shapes. I'm also going to try to move the entire bracket that holds the brake lines out towards the wheel a little...without getting hit by the wheel of course. That will hopefully allow me to pull the mass of coiled up lines away from the header a bit more. The fuel line I hope to just gingerly bend away as much as I can, and then put it in the heat tube that I got from Summit. if there is enough clearance I will put a small shield on the bracket that already protects the fuel line down low. I will do likewise with any electrical. Starter gets a blanket. We shall see. It's going to be tight in there.
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Old 08-01-2018, 04:20 PM
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Quick update:

Attempted to get "prepped" today. It took me a very long time to get the heat shields off. Then I broke the EGR valve. After that happened I decided I had better do the EGR delete so I could still drive the truck, instead of running out of time and not having a moving rig. I quickly fabricated some blocks for the intake and exhaust holes, capped the vacuum at the throttle body, and plugged in a 10k resistor at the green plug. I drove the truck hard after that; no CEL except the flashing one that happens since I unplugged my speedo (need to lube the cable). So far I didn't notice any difference from the EGR delete. Hopefully it doesn't kill my mileage or anything else. No pings so far. I wish I hadn't broken the thing, but 30 year old cast iron just couldn't take it. I probably could have approached it differently. Oh well. No CEl without it , so that is good news. Also a plus, what I thought was a manifold leak at WOT must have turned out to be a loose heat shield even though I had checked those before, or something to do with EGR. WOT is now clean with no rasping/leaky sounding effect. At least I got rid of that gremlin.

That was as far as I got for header prep!

I realized I need some better ratchet lengths. I have AC and they really get in the way. I also will end up doing the PAIR valve delete, just because I sort of doubt I will be able to remove that system without breaking it either. That will make the header install much more straight forward. Also a plus, I can use/modify the factory shields for the passenger side header. I may just tack weld some nuts or simple brackets so i can screw the shield right to the worst spot on the header, and perhaps put the heat blanket on the outside of the shield. That may be overkill, and I may not even have enough room.

I am wondering about the stock studs. I would prefer to just use them instead of attempting to back out 12, 30 year old studs. Any thoughts?
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:01 PM
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found this, should give you some idea on some of the clearances https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/1986-headers-301995/

Last edited by Andy A; 08-01-2018 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 08-02-2018, 08:06 AM
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Thanks Andy! That picture of the passenger side is priceless, exactly what I wanted. I probably never clicked on that because it said 1986....no 3vze in 86. This is very helpful.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:41 PM
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Brief update, apologies for the much delayed reply. When I have a minute I should do a brief review of the headers, as they are installed and I have done probably 800 miles so far without issue, with at least two, 3 hour driving sessions. Driving another 340 miles on Friday in one drive (except for dead dinos).

Regarding heat, on passenger side:
-It was a bit close to everything
-I used the "heat tube" from summit to wrap my fuel line, clutch line and some electrical lines before I ran out. I used the heavy duty heat blanket on summit, which is unfaced and non adhesive which was sort of a pain to deal with, but it has held up and I have had no heat problems with the carpet. Also since I ran out of the heat tube, I used some of it to further protect the other wires and the brake lines that are coiled up. I also bent these out of the way a bit further, as well as the clutch line.
-Starter; when I initially installed the header on that side I didn't realize that the header was actually just kissing the starter. Even though I have a blanket on it, I did not like that at all. I took the headers off again and wrapped the closest one in header wrap along the section that kisses the starter, also it is the lowest dropping tube so it is also closest to the wires/starter wire. I believe this is cyclinder # 3 tube on this set.
-I also wrapped my AC line/s in header wrap

Results so far:
-They fit
-I have not had any starter problems...yet.
-Initially some of the conduit on nearby wires were starting to melt, so I wrapped those in the heat blanket that I have; that has stopped.
-If I were to do it again, I might just wrap the whole passenger side in header wrap, despite most evidence suggesting it being a bad idea in the long run. Also let it be known this is a stock truck regarding suspension. No lifts. If they were $700 dollar headers I wouldn't, but these were inexpensive.
-With a 7mge AFM and borla turbo, it sounds like a race car at WOT, but no drone or obnoxiousness at normal driving, just good sound. I just have 2" exhaust, that probably helps keep it pretty mild, however it is very loud at WOT. I would not want it any louder.
-I got about 21/22 mpg on the high way going between 70 and 75 most of it, some 80-85 with some pounding on the skinny pedal, on a 3 hour trip. Started right up right after, while still hot. Similar results on another 2 hour trip. Up from getting 20 on the highway if I was lucky, never going above 70. I have stock 31x10.5 tires, not sure of my gearing but at 70 I'm at about 3200 or so
-Also of note; I did the egr/pair delete at the same time simply because I BROKE the cast EGR valve. Busted my finger pretty good too. It was a lot easier to install without worrying about those things. Pennies fit perfect for the holes on the headers, and I made some cover flanges for the manifold. Not sure how the delete effected the gas mileage in combination with headers
-No CEL with the 10k resistor on EGR plug

This is a late note when I have a minute.
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:23 PM
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Thx for the update. I have a set sitting here I'll install in the fall. Definitely going to send them out to be coated now!
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:58 PM
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Who was the vendor on Ebay that had these? I was thinking of putting a set on my '92 4Runner.

Greg
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:47 PM
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Update since August on the headers.

Also Greg, the headers are still on ebay @ around 160 to 180: https://www.ebay.com/itm/PERFORMANCE...ReK9:rk:3:pf:0

I believe the brand is the same on all of them.

So far I have not had any troubles with heat; neither floorboards or the starter. However, I did wrap the short section of header that was basically resting on the starter...I also wrapped the starter in a starter blanket but left one end open as to not trap any heat. So far, even after several non stop 300 mile trips, I have not had any starter issues. I've probably driven around 3000 miles since then. Also have not burnt through any lines; electrical or fuel or brake. I did gingerly bend a few and I wrapped most in that heat tube from summit. I used a giant heat blanket for the firewall, though I didn't realize it was unfaced and no adhesive so I had to do a bit of a squirrely job securing it but it has held up, and no hot floor board problems.

Comments about the header quality: The bolts are the wrong thread, so make sure you get the right bolts. They were course thread. Nice quality otherwise, and the set up for the EGR/ PAIR is very stout and would make it easy...I broke mine so I just bypassed both.

I told myself I was going to weld the slip joints as I knew they would eventually leak with just weak ass clamps, and they have started to. Also I never cut the last pipe to length to accommodate a cat, but it would be very easy to do so, especially since the last piece on the kit is a slip over. Best part was I just passed inspection with flying colors 3 weeks ago...new tie rods and she is solid. And no CEL.

It hasn't really been that long for a test to determine header quality, but I have been mostly worried about heat. Once summer comes I am going to clean it up a bit, and weld some flanges.
Speaking of flanges, what do people recommend for adapting slip flanges? It almost seems best if I got some flanges that actually went over each pipe, and then had a giant o-ring around the outside of one pipe. As long as the welds are good seems like that would work, that way leaving the slip method intact. I'm all ears though. Got to run to work now but if anyone has any other questions I will do my best to answer.
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