Traplife

Ok guys im new here. I have a mystery problem. I have a 1989 2wd pickup with 4 cyl 22re. Wouldnt go into OD so thru much troubleshooting with no results, i did a tranny swap from an a43d to a w55 5 speed. During the conversion, the only things i did to the truck was put a plenum gasket, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, and all new exhaust gaskets from the cat. conv. back to exhaust manifold. Installed new water pump, ignition coil, distributor cap, rotor, plugs and wires. Installed new flywheel, pressure plate, pilot bearing, release bearing, clutch master cyl, slave cyl, and brake/clutch pedal bracket under the dash. The only things removed from the vehicle were the auto tranny, tranny lines, old flywheel, torque converter, shift linkage, and two witing harbess plugs under the plenum. Note: i did have to wire the park neutral switch together to get the truck to crank. Everything went great, new tranny looks like factory installed. Only took 3 days. Not long considering all the work was done solo. Enough with bragging. So i cranked the truck up. It ran with a very low idle. I adjusted the idle screw beside the throttle body. Held the butterfly valve slightly open for 3 seconds after 15 min of running to get the oil and coolant flowing. When i let the butterfly valve snap shut, the truck cut off. Wouldnt crank after that. I bled off the fuel rail and the truck cranked up with quite a bit of sputtering. When it leveled out, i backed the truck outta the shop and crawled under the truck to check for leaks. At this point the truck ran another 15 minutes. I then got in the truck and drove it down the road. It was running great and the tranny shifted like a dream. Everything was running great. Approaching my first stop sign 3 miles away, i popped it outta gear to coast to the stop sign and the truck cut off. I immediately put it in 4th and let off the clutch and it fired back up. So i geared down to 2nd gear and rolled thru the stop sign to keep the truck running. One more mile down the road, the truck was losing power and started making a loud whining noise. I cut the truck off and coasted to a stop. When it stopped, i let it sit a few minutes and tried to crank it back up. The cranking was severely labored. I got my wife to pull me home, and there it sits. Wont crank at all! The next day, i tried several troubleshooting tips from a very reputable mechanic that builds racing engines. I checked all the plugs and the car gets fire. Pulled oul sending unit and theres oil there. Cracked bolt on fuel rail and i have fuel. Checked the intake while cranking and its pulling air fine. Sprayed carb/choke cleaner in the intake to see if it would attempt to crank, with no change in the cranking. Also checked the timing. Turned crank to top dead center and pulled distributor cap. Sits on #1, so timing isnt an issue. Compression results on 1-4 cylinders are 160,168,160,170. So compression is good. The only thing i havent physically checked is the actual fuel pressure, with a gauge. While im sitting there turning the motor over, i can smell a strong scent of raw fuel but i dont know where its coming from. I did not disconnect any fuel components during this job. Ive also jumped the TE1 and E1 plugs in the diagnostics box on passenger side. i have a constant flashing check engine light, which is suppose to indicate no faults. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Traplife

And just another bit of info! The truck sat parked 2 years before all of this. When i acquired the truck, i put a new water pump and ignition, and filled te tank with gas and drove it over 100 miles without OD on the auto tranny.

jb451

So the truck runs fine while in gear, but at idle it dies?

shot in the dark... improper clutch fork engagement?

EDIT- have you tested what fuel pressure you have?

scope103

That method will tell you your timing +/-10°. Which covers from "runs like a dream" all the way to "won't even fire." How much money have you invested so far? Get the $20 timing light you should have had all along; then you'll know whether timing is an issue. (Your symptoms do sound like timing; but with a test that takes about 20 seconds you'll know.)

On vocabulary, consider: crank=>fire=>run=>idle. It sounds like when you say "it won't crank" you really mean it cranks, but won't fire. You can use whatever words you want, but if your audience can't understand you they can't help you.

Traplife

Ok to clarify what im saying with simple vocabulary since im not a guru. The tranny swap went fine. The engine ran fine for 15 min once and knocked off after manually opening the throttle body. I got it to crank again and it ran fine for another 15 min. and after that, for 4 miles, then i heard a loud whining noise and turned off the ignition. I waited a few minutes and tried to crank and run the engine, but all i got was a very labored turning over of the engine. After the truck stopped, i havent been able to get the engine to run since even after several attempts at troubleshooting! No i havent used a timing light, but i cant since the engine wont constantly run. However, if the timing was off to that extreme, seems to me as though the engine wouldve never ran. Im not a mechanics graduate and i dont know all the correct vocab, but im pretty good at understanding stuff.

Traplife

And im at about 2k in the investment right now.

Traplife

To jb451: no i havent tested the fuel pressure as of yet. I talked to that race engine mechanic today and he said the injectors require x amount of pressure to even spray. I work 12 hr swing shifts and right now im doing all i can while im working. Kinda difficult with a 45 mile commute one way and working. I cant use a timing light either, as the engine will not stay running at this point.

Traplife

And another question! Should i unplug the tcu or tcm whichever it is, now that an auto tranny is no longer in the vehicle?

jb451

Trap, i started to post this at first, but i thought you had taken care of it in the swap: Now, i'm just getting into toyotas myself, but in all of the LSX swaps i have done, you must have someone "reflash" the computer if you switch trans types, as well as modify the harness. The unflashed, stock ECU is setup to run off of the parameters (shift points, stall speed, speed sensors, etc) of an auto, but once you put a manual in, all of that changes since you are controlling the trans yourself. The only sensors that get used is the vehicle speed sensor and reverse lockout solenoid (usually).

What i'm thinking is, your ECU is still set up for an auto, which even at idle requires more fuel to run than a manual since a torque converter is still spinning. So, it is dumping more fuel into the engine than the engine needs and killing it. Like i said, i'm new to the toyota game and the various swaps you can do, but if fuel pressure, spark, and air intake check out, that would be my next place to look... After all, an EFI type trans swap, regardless of make or model has the same base components. Good luck man!


EDIT- YES, unplug the transmission control and see if that helps before tearing into it. it definitely should not be hooked up, it is receiving NO input from anything.

Traplife

Thanks JB. That sounds like solid info there! When u say flash the ecu do u mean change the parameters from auto to manual? Or just flash out the auto altogether? Or can i fudge my way through it by just unplugging the tcm? Also, which harness are you talking about? The ecu harness or the 2 wiring harnesses under the intake for the old auto tranny? For the sake of getting it to crank, i just spliced the park neutral switch.

Traplife

And where would that tcm be located? Ive heard its behind the radio somewhere, or is it also plugged into the ecu to where i can just unplug it there?

jb451

That man, i dont know. Like i said, i'm a new guy here so i'm still learning too. I'm sure if you google the FSM or call a dealer they can probably tell you. My guess is yeah, all the control modules are behind the dash.

In an LSX ecu, the ecu recognizes the data received (or not being received) from the TCM, so you must have that particular program removed from the ECU in order for it to run right. But we are not only dealing with a completely different manufacturer, but a different operating/diagnostic system (your OBD 1 vs. LSX OBD2). Try unplugging the TCM first to see if you can cheaply fix it first. Also go ask around in the swap section to see if guys who did the swap you did had to modify the harness or ECU. They might be able to point you in the right direction.

You should be okay with how you did the park neutral switch, if you messed it up the car probably would not have started in the first place.

Traplife

Thanks JB. I think u hit the nail on the head. I found some literature on the tcm for an a43d auto tranny. It does rely on the ecu for shift points, throttle position and fuel adjustments based on gear ratio (i think i said that right). All of this is stored on the ecu. As of right now, im thinking i need to delete the tcm and either reprogram or find a new ecu. The only problem i think i may have is that the truck is an 89 with a 93 model 5speed conversion. The exchangability of ecu's are in the year range of 88 to late 92 model trucks. But what im thinking is that i could get an ecu from a 2wd truck with manual tranny in that year range and plug it right. Then i would have an 89 motor, 93 tranny, and and 88-92 ecu? The only electric part of the 93 manual is for the reverse lights. I dont really care if i have that or not. The 93 also has a vss where the 89 is a cabled speedo. U think i could do a gear swap from the 89 cable port into the 93 vss port and still use my speedo? Cause it doesnt work either. I dont really need that either, but it would just be a plus. Btw, ive never joined a forum and dont know how to navigate to the swap section. Any point on that would be helpful.

jb451

Why dont you just find an 89 manual ecu? Should work... not sure on the speedo, you might have to retrofit in a newer gauge cluster to one with an electrical speedo. Edit- whoops, shoulda read that through on the ecu part.

Press "home" at the top of the screen, then on the left side of the screen there is a few links, one of which is the swap section (i think its there, if not, look under truck tech)

Traplife

Yeah not to mention that ecu also send signals to the shift solenoids and clutch or converter lockup based on throttle position and speed. Man i got this truck all screwed up. I thought i had researched this swap better than that. Im a self taught trial and error shadetree mechanic. No education whatsoever. This is only the second major undertaking ive ever had and man im learning some big lessons. Its kinda like "needle in a haystack" scenario for me. All my other experiences have been basic (timing replacements, clutch replacements, oil and water pumps, brakes) stuff like that. Never had any ecu or tcm encounters.

jb451

Eh, if my half brained self can figure it out, so can you! Live and learn man, thats half the fun!

Traplife

Im still worried about the truck though. It sounded like it was going through some serious mechanical HELL before it knocked off. Has me puzzled on why everything checks out (compression, fuel, fire, and timing) even though it just refuses to crank

Traplife

Im sure if it was mechanical it wouldve showed up after 30 minutes of idle time and within 3 miles of driving wouldnt it?