montypower

I've been reading everything I can find in regards to the upper a-arms for the 4runner. I've come to the conclusion that Allpro is not an option. Due to their poor customer service and so so construction (in comparison).

So the battle between Camburg & Total Chaos. I'm by no means an expert on either one of these products.

I emailed Total Chaos and said:
Their reply:
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Thank you for your inquiry with TOTAL CHAOS. The grade of parts used cost more however they will last longer. Uniballs are race grade, F911 hardware is 3/4", hi misalignment spacers are individually replaceable, we supply new retaining clips and instructions. We offer a tool to aid in the installation for a shop or home install. You can save cash now or have your rig in a shop and spend the extra $200 when you have down time because your trucks in the shop and your replacing parts.

We had a guy call us because he lost the retaining clip on a set of Camburg's slugs (they have you reuse the factory part) and when the adapter fell out it damaged the lower hi-mis spacer. He didn't want to reinstall their stuff, so he switched to our parts and had tow and repair bills. Go with what ever you feel comfortable with. The behind the scenes quality, parts and designs are what make up the difference! We developed the adapter and they knocked it off and now sell the stuff for less using lesser grade parts. It does cost money to INVENT parts and be innovative. All Pro is even less than Camburg........and their quality and components supplied reflect it.
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I then emailed Camburg:

Their Response:

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Here is some info about why our arms are better than Total Chaos:

1) We use a higher quality Aurora 1.00" teflonlined uniball. It is both made and assembled in the USA. The next best bearing is a mil-spec NHBB that is about 4x the cost and no one supplies with a kit. In our little world we don't need anything stronger, unlike the aerospace industry.

2) We were the first to offer zerk grease fittings on the a-arm that are used in conjuction with thicker walled 7/8" CNC machined sleeves and energy suspension polyurethane bushings. This offers less deflection in the arm and keeps the geometry more accurate.

3) We use a smaller 5/8" F-911 bolt compared to TC's 3/4". Since we're using a smaller diameter bolt we're able to get more mis-alignment out of the uniball. Strength is not compromised since we're using an aircraft grade F911 bolt. Your spindle will break way before that bolt does.

4) All our mis-alignment spacers are machined from 17-4 stainless steel. We use nothing but the best. One of the huge differences is how our lower uniball/spindle insert is. It is considerably stronger and costs a lot more to machine. TC and others do it as two pieces which isnt as strong and costs less to make. We have a ton more shear lateral strength because of our design.

5) We put more castor into the arms which gives better straightline stability both on and off-road.

6) The design and geometry TC has will cause the spindle to hit the frame/coil bucket on full compression. We have plenty of clearance. Sprindles or any suspension components coming into contact with anything is a design flaw and shouldnt take place.

7) We use a high-gloss steel gray powdercoat, not black. It holds up very well and we've had ZERO problems or complaints.

8) I'm not sure if TC supplies you with polyurethane grease, we do. We also supply you with zinc-plated washers, just like TC.

9) We retail our upper arms for $499.00, Total Chaos sell theirs for quite a bit more. Being that I know what it costs and takes to manufacture these arms, I cannot justify selling them for more than what we sell ours for. Our arms are very similar in many regards, but we've also gone above and beyond what they are offring while at a lower price ... that usually doesnt go hand in hand.
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Both companies responded quickly, but I was really impressed with what Camburg had to say. I know there have been many who have stated Total Chaos is the best. But now I'm wondering.

What do you guys think?? I'm inclined to give my business to Camburg.

deathrunner

I would go Camburg. I had a similar debate between my JD kit and Chaos, by that statement I am sure you can guess what decision I made.

Chaos isn't bad, but some companies have improved upon thier initial design. First doesn't mean best....Hell, I'll never own a Ford. At least on the first Gen kits Chaos has soem definite weakness (not necesarrily just strength wise) which they haven't fixed on thier 2nd generation kit. Geometry is the biggest thing that comes to mind. I have alway thought that the Camburg stuff looked beefier.

That's just my opinion.

pinnacle

I've had camburg long travel kit on my old ranger and only have good things to say about them. When the time comes and I get my donahoes, I'm going to get the camburg arms.

montypower

Is there a difference in travel from Camburg to Total Chaos?? I know Donahoe worked with TC to develope their system (allowed 9.5-10" of flex).

bamachem

are you getting them for the long travel or to allow you to run 35's?

if you are only getting them to run 35's, then go w/ OEM upper arms modified by sonoran steel for MUCH LESS $$$.

calrockx

I've got the camburg arms with donahoes. No complaints here, I'm quite happy with both products.

My only beef is that I bought the camburg arms before they equipped them with zerk fittings. I installed my own, but since there were added on, they tend to fall off when greasing. oh well, not a huge problem i guess.

i've seen runners with camburgs and tc's, both from what i've seen have held up nicely and people are happy with em. i felt camburgs fit the bill for what i needed and what i'll be using them for.

montypower

Bamachem- I'm looking for travel/performance. I'll be running 33s. Might as well get the best, rather than replace it later.

Calrockx- Are you running the Extended Donahoe's??

Good Times

uca's are uca's. just go with whatever budget you have. some people hare more $ to spend to get the good stuff and be happy that they purchased something they don't have to worry about replacing after something goes wrong. in no way am i stating that the cheaper stuff is more inferior but for what most of us do, it's not a make or break deal.

if you're doing pro/competition stuff, then it's important but for the recreational members here like myself, it's not really a big deal. go with what you think will work with what you want to do. if you want to save $, look into what andy said too btw. personally i am a tc fan but i know all vendors makes great stuff so you won't go wrong with either one at this point.

i would talk to donahoe since you're considering their CO's. maybe they can give you some insight on what they recommend.

good luck!

calrockx

yes i am.

FirstToy

Saw this on TTORA, Donahoe considering making billet a-arms

deathrunner

Cool and it' got heims.

montypower

Could you measure your travel? That would be interesting