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Mysterious power steering leak
10-19-2013, 07:28 PM
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Mysterious power steering leak
1990 3.0 4R
I've dealt with power steering before, but I've never had this issue... My runner is using about a quart of fluid every two days... but I can't find a damn leak anywhere.
When I bought the truck the guy who owned it said that the power steering gearbox needed to be replaced. He was young and not to be rude but I don't think he had any idea what he was talking about. The reservoir was pretty much empty when I bought it and there was no power steering. After getting it home I found a half empty bottle of clear power steering fluid in the cargo area. I was going to get a turkey baster and suck all of that out, but it was all gone after the 90 mile trip home. Refilled with Dex III, turned lock to lock until my arms were tired, and then kept on til it was mostly smooth. Drove it and it had hesitation when I started to turn, but loosened up halfway through. Within a few miles my power steering was perfect.
The next day, I was heading into town and in the middle of a right turn my power steering went out so quickly I almost went into the oncoming lane. Luckily I reacted well but I knew there must be a leak... I parked it at my local parts store in a clean space and turned lock to lock a dozen times, then went to look for leaks... NOTHING. I am really confused. Checked the reservoir... almost empty. I have failed to produce a visible leak or find evidence of one.
I refilled it just to make it easier to drive but again today... left hand turns aren't bad but right turns are killer. Over two quarts of Dex III have been put through the system, and I don't think power steering stopleak is the answer.
I'm guessing it is leaking out only when I am driving. One quart in 40 miles is significant, and I can't afford to keep refilling it. Tomorrow I will be buying brake cleaner and UV dye to find the leak. Does this seem like the right thing to do? I can't imagine the pump or the gear box being bad if it works perfectly when filled with fluid!
Any suggestions for common culprits to watch out for? My research over the last two hours has given me two areas:
-One near the gearbox on the driver's side (vague description, just splattered liquid all over in his case)
-One of the unions for the hose on the pump itself
Edit: Found another leak point to look for: Power steering distribution box? Don't even know where that is, but I'm sure I'll find out...
I've dealt with power steering before, but I've never had this issue... My runner is using about a quart of fluid every two days... but I can't find a damn leak anywhere.
When I bought the truck the guy who owned it said that the power steering gearbox needed to be replaced. He was young and not to be rude but I don't think he had any idea what he was talking about. The reservoir was pretty much empty when I bought it and there was no power steering. After getting it home I found a half empty bottle of clear power steering fluid in the cargo area. I was going to get a turkey baster and suck all of that out, but it was all gone after the 90 mile trip home. Refilled with Dex III, turned lock to lock until my arms were tired, and then kept on til it was mostly smooth. Drove it and it had hesitation when I started to turn, but loosened up halfway through. Within a few miles my power steering was perfect.
The next day, I was heading into town and in the middle of a right turn my power steering went out so quickly I almost went into the oncoming lane. Luckily I reacted well but I knew there must be a leak... I parked it at my local parts store in a clean space and turned lock to lock a dozen times, then went to look for leaks... NOTHING. I am really confused. Checked the reservoir... almost empty. I have failed to produce a visible leak or find evidence of one.
I refilled it just to make it easier to drive but again today... left hand turns aren't bad but right turns are killer. Over two quarts of Dex III have been put through the system, and I don't think power steering stopleak is the answer.
I'm guessing it is leaking out only when I am driving. One quart in 40 miles is significant, and I can't afford to keep refilling it. Tomorrow I will be buying brake cleaner and UV dye to find the leak. Does this seem like the right thing to do? I can't imagine the pump or the gear box being bad if it works perfectly when filled with fluid!
Any suggestions for common culprits to watch out for? My research over the last two hours has given me two areas:
-One near the gearbox on the driver's side (vague description, just splattered liquid all over in his case)
-One of the unions for the hose on the pump itself
Edit: Found another leak point to look for: Power steering distribution box? Don't even know where that is, but I'm sure I'll find out...
Last edited by AshenCrow; 10-19-2013 at 07:51 PM.
10-19-2013, 08:13 PM
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Check out post #6 on this thread
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...l-3vze-270548/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...l-3vze-270548/
10-19-2013, 09:17 PM
#6
As My Lil Pony Neeeeeyed, hehe, check the idle up lines from the pump to the plenum. I'm not familiar with the 3.0 steering idle up. My 22RE has a 2 port polished aluminum actuator screwed directly into the backend on top of the pump. Both ports have larger vacuum lines going from that valve directly into the plenum idle up actuator, which has a screw that is plastic with a metal spring surrounding it. One line goes directly to that and the other to the plenum, directly, just next to the plenum actuator. If u have a similar style valve, and if it has failed, it could indeed be pulling the fluid directly into the plenum. However: I would imagine this would be causing a considerable amount of smoke, from the exhaust, no, Mr. Pony?
As far as my issues, I had
and obvious leaning towards more difficulty turning right... I'm not sure if this is common with steering your boxes, but that was my problem. I swapped in 2 different pumps and had the same results/symptoms.
From what I read, you are saying that even while sitting still and running, you see no visible leakage on to the ground? You definitely would, especially at that rate.
Instead of pulling the vacuum lines off the plenum, pull them right from the pump, and check to see if there is fluid coming out or heavy residue of fluid.
I feel for you, but you gotta get this wrapped up, because steering issues like this can definitely take your life if the box completely locked up. I'm not even certain not your problem, obviously I can't be
without looking at it in person. However, there are several tests to run in order to test your gearbox and pump & rule out one or the other or both.
Power steering fluid and ATF do not mix very well. I would recommend doing a full flush.....AFTER you locate the cause of your vanishing fluid.
As far as my issues, I had
and obvious leaning towards more difficulty turning right... I'm not sure if this is common with steering your boxes, but that was my problem. I swapped in 2 different pumps and had the same results/symptoms.
From what I read, you are saying that even while sitting still and running, you see no visible leakage on to the ground? You definitely would, especially at that rate.
Instead of pulling the vacuum lines off the plenum, pull them right from the pump, and check to see if there is fluid coming out or heavy residue of fluid.
I feel for you, but you gotta get this wrapped up, because steering issues like this can definitely take your life if the box completely locked up. I'm not even certain not your problem, obviously I can't be
without looking at it in person. However, there are several tests to run in order to test your gearbox and pump & rule out one or the other or both.
Power steering fluid and ATF do not mix very well. I would recommend doing a full flush.....AFTER you locate the cause of your vanishing fluid.
10-19-2013, 10:11 PM
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Thank you very much for the input. The main reason I sent that PM to you was out of fear for my gear box's life! heh. I'll make sure to keep fluid in it so that I don't burn out the pump or gear box. My roommate agreed to help me with turning the wheels and looking for the leak tomorrow. I'll report back after.
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10-19-2013, 10:55 PM
#8
That would be a LOT of ATF going to the plenum.. and I really cant see that valve being so bad that it even allows that much fluid to pass.. and as noted above, it would definitely smoke out the exhaust. Still though, it is a possible case... especially the leak is apparantly not visible..
to be honest AshenCrow, I really find it hard to believe that there is no visible leak. The steering gear is on the drivers side, mounted on the frame right up against the radiator area... underneath the black plastic emissions boxes (they have names...
)
The hydraulic fluid distribution box/valve (i think only on cars with ABS) is in the same spot, but on the passengers side. I just rebuilt my steering gear, no fun, and I am crossing my fingers that the distribution box is good.. But both of those items are full of potential areas for leaks. Do you have any leaks anywhere underneath the car? If you have leaks further back, it may be the one you are looking for.. because depending on what area is leaking, I can see the fluid running down the frame and dripping from elsewhere... also, you really don't need die or anything.. it's red and easily distinguishable from engine oil.
Good luck.. let us know if you find it!! I'm curious to see if the little vacuum valve is the culprit...
to be honest AshenCrow, I really find it hard to believe that there is no visible leak. The steering gear is on the drivers side, mounted on the frame right up against the radiator area... underneath the black plastic emissions boxes (they have names...
) The hydraulic fluid distribution box/valve (i think only on cars with ABS) is in the same spot, but on the passengers side. I just rebuilt my steering gear, no fun, and I am crossing my fingers that the distribution box is good.. But both of those items are full of potential areas for leaks. Do you have any leaks anywhere underneath the car? If you have leaks further back, it may be the one you are looking for.. because depending on what area is leaking, I can see the fluid running down the frame and dripping from elsewhere... also, you really don't need die or anything.. it's red and easily distinguishable from engine oil.
Good luck.. let us know if you find it!! I'm curious to see if the little vacuum valve is the culprit...
10-19-2013, 11:01 PM
#9
Check your oil... If you have around 7 courts or more of fluid in your car in case,... Well, there you go! Lol.....
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/air-idle-control-valve-power-steering-228523/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/air-control-valve-148525/
Not uncommon..... But I still would imagine you should have a BIT of smoke, as not everything is going to leak back in your crankcase. It would probably run a bit like crap as well, as you would probably not get full clean burn.... But, indeed, some of it would likely get sucked into the intake valve each time it opens..... But a quart an hour?
Your puppy is different from mine, but if it has the same type of return line with two nuts over studs or bolts going through an elbow that is metal, underneath that it is tapered wondering... Those are very common to leak, and they can literally pour out of there and run down the back of the pump, along the bracket, down the block, along the oil pan, as it did in my case. I even had a power steering leak from the pump that wound up on the passenger side of the timing cover... I would have sworn it was coming from the top and the timing cover or out of one of the AC mounting bracket bolts...
The gearbox can leak like a pig is well, either from the top shaft seal, the lower seal just above the pitman arm, or the gear housing to box housing mounting bolts Union seal.... Basically what I mean is where the two larger body parts of the box not together. If you have smooth steering when it is full, that at least takes your odds down some that its the steering box going bad which is causing your hard steering to the right...... But, if the reservoir, which in your case is directly on top of the pump unlike mine, is leaking like a pig... And you continue to run the fluid down to empty... You can blow out a gearbox in no time... Remember, probably got a quarter million miles on it. I've had them in trucks with over 350,000 miles and not a serious issue at all, minus a tiny bit of leaking, or I should say seepage, from the body Union seal...
If you do end up needing a box, post up your location, I cannot see it from the app. Then, I'm sure someone can help you find a source for a rebuilder that uses only quality OEM or better parts. If its the pump, there are parts available for that from Toyota, & I don't recommend buying a parts store version. Then again, my 86 4Runner had a Kragen steering pump and it worked fine for nearly 200,000 miles before I totaled the truck. They are not that difficult to rebuild. Just make sure its worth rebuilding if that is your problem. Nothing new bearings and seals won't fix in most situations. The gearbox is a whole nother story... Really depends on your time available and to be honest, skill level.
Now......
Kill it! Lol
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/air-idle-control-valve-power-steering-228523/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/air-control-valve-148525/
Not uncommon..... But I still would imagine you should have a BIT of smoke, as not everything is going to leak back in your crankcase. It would probably run a bit like crap as well, as you would probably not get full clean burn.... But, indeed, some of it would likely get sucked into the intake valve each time it opens..... But a quart an hour?
Your puppy is different from mine, but if it has the same type of return line with two nuts over studs or bolts going through an elbow that is metal, underneath that it is tapered wondering... Those are very common to leak, and they can literally pour out of there and run down the back of the pump, along the bracket, down the block, along the oil pan, as it did in my case. I even had a power steering leak from the pump that wound up on the passenger side of the timing cover... I would have sworn it was coming from the top and the timing cover or out of one of the AC mounting bracket bolts...
The gearbox can leak like a pig is well, either from the top shaft seal, the lower seal just above the pitman arm, or the gear housing to box housing mounting bolts Union seal.... Basically what I mean is where the two larger body parts of the box not together. If you have smooth steering when it is full, that at least takes your odds down some that its the steering box going bad which is causing your hard steering to the right...... But, if the reservoir, which in your case is directly on top of the pump unlike mine, is leaking like a pig... And you continue to run the fluid down to empty... You can blow out a gearbox in no time... Remember, probably got a quarter million miles on it. I've had them in trucks with over 350,000 miles and not a serious issue at all, minus a tiny bit of leaking, or I should say seepage, from the body Union seal...
If you do end up needing a box, post up your location, I cannot see it from the app. Then, I'm sure someone can help you find a source for a rebuilder that uses only quality OEM or better parts. If its the pump, there are parts available for that from Toyota, & I don't recommend buying a parts store version. Then again, my 86 4Runner had a Kragen steering pump and it worked fine for nearly 200,000 miles before I totaled the truck. They are not that difficult to rebuild. Just make sure its worth rebuilding if that is your problem. Nothing new bearings and seals won't fix in most situations. The gearbox is a whole nother story... Really depends on your time available and to be honest, skill level.
Now......
Kill it! Lol
Last edited by ChefYota4x4; 10-19-2013 at 11:15 PM.
10-19-2013, 11:08 PM
#10
chefYota.. that is exactly what min lookks like right now.. I REALLY don't want to fork out $75 for it thought.. and the valve works, i broke it on removal 
and pretty much nothing in junkyards.. Im gonna see if I can salvage it somehow! I have some ideas..
and pretty much nothing in junkyards.. Im gonna see if I can salvage it somehow! I have some ideas..
10-19-2013, 11:21 PM
#11
Ouch, Gevo, sorry to hear! Keep your eyes open, or see if you can't find a first gen version. From everything I read briefly in that thread, it looks as though it's the same exact threading, a tapered 1.0 metric thread, I believe it's something like M14 x 1.0.... could be M12, lol. Anyway, it seems to me as though they do the same darn thing..... Vacuum assist and two ports,... Sounds like it might work to me. The metal one I have is something like $250 new from Toyota, if you can find it. But, if you are lucky enough to find a pump in the yard, it will likely have that valve on there. I grabbed a spare a while back..... But, to be honest, I see them for more often and the yards, those 2nd Gen 3.0 buggers, lol.
10-20-2013, 07:17 AM
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A reman power steering pump from autozone is less than $65. When I bought one, it included the idleup valve, but not the reservoir. Easily beats $250 for a "new" idle-up you get to install yourself, and you get a reman pump in the bargain.
(And yes, the reman pump is still working just fine!)
(And yes, the reman pump is still working just fine!)
10-20-2013, 08:37 AM
#13
I also purchased a reman. pump from napa.. no valve.. I have made couple of trips tolocal junkyards, not a single toyota picku/4runner/t100 to pick from.. the toyota junkyards LITERALLY charge more for the used parts than I can find online new or reman.... so.. i'm probably gonna bypass it for now if I can't mickey mouse fix it.. handle it later.
10-20-2013, 04:44 PM
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Pony was right on the mark. It was in fact that valve. I just ordered this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221294907649...S:3160&vxp=mtr
I tried capping off the intake manifold and using a hose barb to connect the two lines, but it just blew off the control valve. It's leaking alarmingly fast. I had been getting a little white smoke every now and then, but I had also run seafoam through the intake manifold so I couldn't say for sure what was causing that. The smoke has stopped. I will just have to drive another vehicle until it gets here on or before Thursday.
Thanks again to everyone for the help, I wouldn't have known to check that line without you. =)
PS- I told you it wasn't LEAKING!!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221294907649...S:3160&vxp=mtr
I tried capping off the intake manifold and using a hose barb to connect the two lines, but it just blew off the control valve. It's leaking alarmingly fast. I had been getting a little white smoke every now and then, but I had also run seafoam through the intake manifold so I couldn't say for sure what was causing that. The smoke has stopped. I will just have to drive another vehicle until it gets here on or before Thursday.
Thanks again to everyone for the help, I wouldn't have known to check that line without you. =)
PS- I told you it wasn't LEAKING!!!
10-21-2013, 08:39 AM
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I take it that i just need a wrench on the valve to unscrew it, plain and simple?
10-21-2013, 08:52 AM
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Okay. For anyone finding this thread researching a similar problem, I am going to try to remember to take pictures of the vacuum lines showing which one(s) were puking ATF.
Also I did check my crankcase and luckily I don't see any signs of ATF, but I'm doing an oil change very soon anyway just in case.
Edit: Just noticed this on the ebay listing:
"THIS PART IS LOCATED USUALLY AT THE BOTTOM OR NEAR THE POWER STEERING PUMP OR IN A P/S LINE.
I HAVE BEEN SELLING THE BLACK PLASTIC VERSION BUT KEEPING THEM IN STOCK IS DIFFICULT. THIS IS
THE ALLOY VERSION AND IT WILL REPLACE THE BLACK PLASTIC VERSION AND LAST FOREVER."
Woot! Metal valve for 1/4 the cost of a plastic one.
Also I did check my crankcase and luckily I don't see any signs of ATF, but I'm doing an oil change very soon anyway just in case.
Edit: Just noticed this on the ebay listing:
"THIS PART IS LOCATED USUALLY AT THE BOTTOM OR NEAR THE POWER STEERING PUMP OR IN A P/S LINE.
I HAVE BEEN SELLING THE BLACK PLASTIC VERSION BUT KEEPING THEM IN STOCK IS DIFFICULT. THIS IS
THE ALLOY VERSION AND IT WILL REPLACE THE BLACK PLASTIC VERSION AND LAST FOREVER."
Woot! Metal valve for 1/4 the cost of a plastic one.
Last edited by AshenCrow; 10-21-2013 at 08:56 AM.
10-24-2013, 10:18 AM
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Update: Got the valve yesterday and installed it. It was a breeze. Very sturdy metal valve, hopefully the internals hold up. Everything is working perfectly again, thank you all for your help. Does this forum have some sort of "kudos" function for awarding helpful info?
