Hi all,
Need help 90 4runner sr5 new battery new starter new cables still nothing battery test good starter test good any help will be greatly appreciated

 

Have you checked the battery terminals and cables??

Checked for Open Fuses?


Neutral Safety Switch / Clutch Safety Switch.?

All the electrical circuits work?

When Cranking does anything happen or Nothing at All?

 

new cables and terminals. fuses check, Does automatic have neutral safety switch, need to do a couple more circuit test but need to get someone to turn key,
here a click but not sure its coming from starter very faint

 

my bad just looked up neutral safety switch location will try and take a look at it if this crappy weather ever gives me a break

 

Okay believe neutral safety switch is find only here click in neutral or park

fuses test okay except 7,5 amp for charge but that probably activates once started good signal on positive side

all circuits seem fine have dash, exterior lights, radio

have replace all large fuses in engine compartment

and as previously stated new battery, starter, POS and NEG cables new ground to fender wall going to check all other grounds now and starter cranks when jumped across post

again any help will be greatly appreciated

 

Well that tells you the problem is in the starter circuit . Ignition switch in start to The starter Relay coil ground is behind the left kick panel

Pulling in the starter relay contacts then through the neutral safety switch to the starter solenoid

Open circuit or poor connection

with help see if your getting battery voltage to the starter solenoid while cranking that connection can corrode or the wire can break in the insulation

One step at a time you will get it figured

 

What was it doing before you had the problem?


You are implying you have a automatic. Do you?

Automatic has NSS but no starter relay. That is the problem with many trucks up to 1995.
Look at the path starter solenoid current needs to take.

Here's how to troubleshoot:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116.../#post52422426

 

My mistake only the Manual had the starter relay at least in 92 it happens when I just glance at the print.

 

Just to confirm, starter relay is manual trans only in the 1990 4runner EWD.



A faint click makes me think starter solenoid is getting power but not enough amps to kick off the big switch inside to power the actual starter motor. I'd assume ignition switch would be at fault. I didn't check out the troubleshooting link above, but that's probably a good resource to start with.

How did you test the starter? Clearly the starter motor is good, but the solenoid is generally the failure point (click no crank). It's possible the new starter is defective. You can test it in the vehicle, but you'd want to make 100% sure it's in park and can't run you over (jack the rear tires off the ground works pretty well and leave in 2wd). Just have to run a wire (ideally with a fuse) to the starter solenoid wire (small wire) and the starter should click and crank the engine. It draws quite a lot of power, so 30-40 amp fuse, and 14 gauge or larger cable would be ideal. Pretty sure it's just a standard 1/4in spade terminal, so could make up a test lead pretty easy and make the connection at the battery for testing (and safer, less risk of shorting out to ground, etc).

Kind of a side topic, but adding a starter relay looks pretty simple based on the drawing above, just would have to tap into the wire before it goes to the starter, make that energize a relay (probably 30-40 amp rated), and have the relay jump power direct from battery (not through the ignition switch) to starter solenoid. Odd that autos didn't have the starter relay while manual did, I wonder what logic was behind that at Toyota.

 

​​​​
Manuals with starter relay WIRED WRONG AT THE FACTORY. Toyota's electrical engineers in those days not as brilliant as its mechanical engineers. Look at the headlight, cranking and horn circuits.

 

Hey Thanks for all the input I believe its been rewired already going to take another look and if so wonder if that relay is bad will post picture of what I'm seeing

 

That's nuts, I guess hind sight is 20/20, but amp ratings seem like a huge part of the wiring design. I just realized what you mean exactly by being wired wrong, the power source is from the ignition switch, there's no point in the relay, just overly complicates the circuit xD. I bought a truck for parts a while back that had the starter relay bypassed with a short pig tail that just shorted all of the wires together. I guess it makes sense to make something like that since the starter solenoid does nothing to help the circuit, the tiny bit of power it draws actually makes it worse!

Horn circuit runs power directly through the steering wheel, pretty crazy, not sure how many amps it's designed for, but 100% don't put big horns on the factory truck's wiring.

And for those reading along wondering what the issue with the headlight circuit is, it's almost right, but the ground side of the headlight runs through the actual dimmer switch, even though the power side is ran through a relay like it should. Again, don't put high wattage headlights on the old yota trucks unless a relay is added in and power source is from the battery (ideally with a fuse).

I wonder if there's a demand for a kit to fix those issues to make things wired the correct way. I make harnesses, pig tails, adapters, etc so I can probably get connectors to tap into the wiring with no splice work, and wiring things correctly would make the headlight switch, horn (the switch and round contact), and the ignition switch likely last a LOT longer, but at the same time, the kits would probably cost as much as replacing the parts once.

For fun, I looked when Toyota fixed those issues.

Horn issue, fixed in 1992 for pickups (aka 91 has the issue still)
Starter, fixed in 1992
Headlights, never fixed, power from relay, grounds through switch still (I think a LOT of toyotas run this design, maybe the switch is designed for the 120w+ draw (10amp+).

Jumping to a 1998 T100, headlights still grounds through the headlight switch. 2005 Tundra, same basic design. Checked a couple other vehicles, all the same style. I suspect for electrical issues, the 3 highlighted above are probably common issues.

Thought of another circuit with a high draw, wiper motor, it's designed right though, odd that they got some stuff right but some way wrong. Makes me want to go through my vehicles and check their higher power draw circuits and make sure relays are correctly used lol.

 

Starter relay is on the passenger fender, it's a metal box most of the time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26474362665...4AAOSwXedcDHSo

As mentioned above, the relay does nothing, just an extra failure point. I'll be making a relay bypass soon just because it makes the circuit more simple with less failure points, but it doesn't fix the circuit design. I need to grab some of the starter relays I've collected and get them listed, $100+ for a part that does nothing and say a $25 bypass can permanently fix, count me in xD.

EDIT

Actually, looking over the circuit, the relay does do something, just wired wrong for the power source. The clutch switch and clutch cancel requires the relay unless they are bypassed as well (can start in gear then). It does nothing to protect the ignition switch though.

The starter relay could be used in it's factory spot, just adapt the wiring so the new power source for the relay would be directly from the battery + fuse. Would have to test to make sure internally pins 3 and 4 aren't connected together in the relay, if they are not it's pretty easy to fix the design flaw. The starter relay still needs to function so it's a possible issue with the starting circuit.

I'm going to start a new thread on the design flaw of the circuit so this thread doesn't get too cluttered up with two ideas rolling at once. Here's the link.

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...it-fix-313971/

 

never mind not what I thought looks like its going to the cooling fan also think it is the solenoid wire try to test my myself by running a wire from it so
could test it and try to start no signal on test light

 

just so everything is clear

Automatic 90 4Runner 3.0 4WD

Starter had been going bad had to tap on once in awhile to start so decided to replace it

Battery was no longer holding good charge so replaced it as well

Haven't been able to start it since

so is there still a rewire for Automatics with no relay

thanks in advance

 

That truck should have just a neutral switch (park/neutral) and the actual ignition switch. There's no starter relay in the circuit, just the starter solenoid directly on the starter.

Here's the full starter circuit, the A/T notes are for auto trans, M/T is for manual only (basically everything on the right top area).

 

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...runner-307493/

In that thread RAD4Runner explains everything, and how to wire in a starter relay. I did it to my automatic exactly the way RAD instructs, and have not had a starting issue (for that reason anyway ) since I put the relay in.

 

That looks like a good write up. I personally really hate cutting wires, so I like to use OE style connectors and build adapter harnesses. Costs a little more, but the end product is almost factory like. A lot of people aren't great with wiring, and every point the wire is cut, it must be sealed very well, atleast up here in the rust belt. The tiniest of pin holes in the wire and in a year or two it's nothing but green powder and there's electrical issues. The adapter harness shown in the thread looks to be built pretty well, the only off thing is the terminal to go to the original starter relay wire isn't the OE style, it works but it can pull apart (it doesn't lock together). I can get the OE connector for that. The other thing is I can't see what type of heat shrink is used. I don't understand why starter solenoid has numbers in every mention, it makes it harder for google to bring up the page. Anyway, I'll ad a reference to that thread in the thread I started on that matter so it's easier to be found. I'm looking at building a ready made kit so it's nice and simple for the end user.

 

Popular HotShot wiring retrofit fixes absence of starter relay. Also where the starter relay is in kick panel, still making long path to starter solenoid.
$13 worth of parts and maybe half hour work fixes relay wired wrong. That's what Griswald (t4R.org) did.
IIRC, Canada model of 3rd gen 4runners has proper headlight relay wiring.

 

I Hate having bots add spam links to words like 'starter", "relay", etc.