Plus I have an automatic transmission that the torque converter can slip, unlike a manual that's pretty much engaged with little to no slip. I think this is one main factor with me not breaking anything as of yet. Thanks Brett! I don't doubt that I won't break anything, but just like you said, I've been a two trips now that people have broken stuff, and I've been clean so far. It probably will happen, and when it does, I'll be prepared for it (maybe). I find it interesting how that Xterra you sent me pictures of is running the Q78 swampers successfully, and a toyota front end is so much weaker than a Nissan that it's just now going to work???

Chris

 

To which I responded about flex not equalling traction. ie: SAS vs. front locker

Then this:

FYI ARB's for the 8" and the IFS cost the same - -maybe a few bucks more on installation is all.

Nice mixed message...

 

I'm totally confused now!

Chris

 

Here we go again. Everyone (Except Charles) out west and as far as I can tell from the web posts, Ryan Taylor back there as well broke the outter CV or the center shaft. Charles broke the inner, ring and pinion and diff.

Charles had no lockers at the time.

So this leads to 3 types of breakage.

1. Tourque: Steve Hunt is the King of this. Never spins a tire but the 3.4 with the Automatic will explode the axles like butter. This is with 34's and a front ARB, no spinning tires.

2. Spinning out of control tires making contact with the ground. This is the explosion. This would be a stock drive train or a drive train with corrected gears for the tire size. I think Drew Persson sums it us best.

"Originally posted by Drew Persson:
Lemmie guess, lots of skinny pedal and no talent! Put a Marlin Ultimate crawler and rear locker in that thing and you won't have to spin the ˟˟˟˟˟ out of your tires. Spinning tires=broken parts."

Now I know Chris has a rear locker.

Charles, Ryan Taylor and Jeff seem to break on spinning. Now to be clear, Jeff will get all 4 spinning and it is very impressive. Charles had one tire and 100 mph and the other at zero. This is an open diff, 3.4 and stock gears. Welcome to Chuckies world Chris. Your really gonna have some spectacular carnage with a 36" or 35" swamper. Go for it! I want to see vids.

3. The outter cage breaks/cracks. This is the lamest break and what happened to me. The boot does not tear, no action, just one tire stops turning. The cralwer has alot of tourqe but it is extremely controlled. The front locker just adds to the control. The cage can also break from too much drop or angle. Bruce seems to loose alot of axles by pushing them too far with all his Total Chaos travel.

So if I can run 35's with $4000 with of parts to make the entire thing extremely controlled, how is a guy with a stock drive train going to have any control? In addition the 3.4 is very powerful. The 2.7 is not. Just like Jesus saves, the 2.7 saves axles. It just dones not have any where near the power of destruction the 3.4 does.


So why is Chris going fail:

1. Motor is very powerful. Too powerful for the front diff/axles.
2. Drive train is stock or near stock with only a R&P change at best. He will not have the huge amount of control I do.
3. Axles are NOT that strong. Someoone some day could make a very strong IFS axle, but that day is not today.

A Dana 44 will be alot stronger than the 7.5" IFS, heck even the 4th Gen 8" IFS front diff is stronger.

Does Chris need a Dana 44 to not break axles. NO.

The reason I DO NOT and the reason HE WILL comes right down to the Marlin Crawler with the ARB RD90 and the enormous ammount of control they provide. He will not have the control, BIG tires will spin and parts will explode.

MARK MY WORDS. It will happen.


You can not compare a guy with thousands and thousands in drivetrain mods to a guy that has a stock drivetrain. It's just not the same.


Also, there is alot of stuff out here that you have no prayer in hell of even getting up without a front locker. Scott Yoder was here in November and was like you, I don't need one, I can go everywhere.

We showed him that was BS. We purposly did all the harder obsticles and he could not get up Yellow Belly. He left a front locker beliver. All of the Hammers trials in Califronia are front locker intensive. It's all climbing out of beach sand onto rocks, that rear locker is useless climbing out of sand. Same thing in Moab.


Knock yourself out Chris. I want Video !!!


Why am I going to do a Streight Axle Conversion? Because I can. Why not. I ran out of bolt ons.

:flipoff2:

 

I can see how the strain of the motor builds and builds on the hard obstacles, before the vehicle even begins to move forward, which is probably what your talking about, right? I don't have an ARB, but in the case of no tires spinning, it wouldn't matter. But, it's rare that here in the East we don't spin a tire though.I agree that this is a bad scenario too, which is why I always approach any obstacle as slow as possible, and if I don't make it I'll gradually try it with a tad more gas until I make it. Since I'm locked in the rear, it's not as often that I'll spin all four tires, though.I believe that most of what your explaining, without attacking them personally, is possibly a lack of driving experience or skill. When I do move up to the larger tires, I won't have stock gearing, which will be somewhat of a help to maintain my control. I might still be open up front, but locked in the rear still.
I'll agree with this 50%. I definitely adds to the control, but also adds strain when there's different torque loads on each tire, resulting from turning for example.Does he break the axles that's drooped down or the one that's stuffed up? Just curious.
This is the ultimate question, isn't it?
This doesn't make sense to me. Could you explain what you meant to say a little better?
I've never said that I haven't needed one, but I have said that in most cases of what I run, I haven't needed it. There definitely have been times where it would help tremendously. The reason I'm not budgeting it in at this point is because I have a hard time spending the money to regear and throw and ARB in the front IFS, when for not that much more money I could do a SAS. Now, with that being said, if I found a great deal on a used setup, I might go ahead and buy the ARB/IFS setup for the meantime.
I truly appreciate you spending the time to respond in this amount of detail. I hope there's no hard feelings, because I'm only a very inquisitive person trying to get all my ducks in a row before making a final decision. But, I'm discounting the fact that I might take a slightly different route than you or anyone else that has provided information to me. So, please dno't get irritated when I do it. I mean no disrespect. I'm just thick headed! Thanks again,

Chris

 

thanks for clarifying steve!

 

Bruce loses axles to droop IIRC.

Steve: I thought you blew an inner joint, not an outer... ???

 

Outter, the cage fell apart from droop.

 

I don't see how an IFS regear/ARB is the same cost as a SAS. If you SAS, you will still have to regear and likely also need to rebuild the axle. So the regear becomes a wash. So you are saying you can do a SAS with all the parts needed for the cost of an ARB locker? I'm not seeing it. Even if you get EVERYTHING from a junk yard.

 

No, no! Sorry about that. what I meant to say is that I don't want to spend the money to put and ARB and regear my IFS if I'm planning to do a SAS, because the money will be partially lost.

Chris

 

naah, just go w/ some 4.88's and you'll EASILY be able to sell the complete front diff to somebody as a bolt-on unit.

 

That's true!

Chris

 

Better yet send in your new gear set to Bobby Long and have him cryo-treat them!

 

This will be my last post on this and a change for me on these BBS's.


Jeff is an outstanding driver, seeing all 4 spin fully locked up on dry Arizona rock is truly an amazine site to see. He has one heck of a powerful motor and it shows.


Now for the change in policy. I am really going to try to stay out of other people plans/ideas. If you/they e-mail me, you'll get a canned "I don't know" responce just like you would get from All-Pro or Daystar or Sway-A-Way, if they even respond at all. I want to concentrate on my product development and that is really all I have time for these days with the family, production, my projects and my advanced welding class. Ask Andy, when you assume the vendor roll you get tons of e-mails all asking the same thing you posted over and over again. I even had one guy calling me on the phone asking a ton of questions about his Tundra coil lift. I don't even have anything to do with that, and several calls a day over 3 days later, I guess I helped him figure it out. It's just time for me to step back.


This change is clear since a little boy in South Carolina seems to find is necessary to tell me how big of a jerk I am. What is it with South Carolina? Clayton, 44Runner and now this guy? I guess I'll never move there.

I PM'd him back refering to this post and yep, that's it. He just called me more names, but did confirm this was it.


Chris, I don't think it will be strong enough, but go knock yourself out! Give it a shot, I might be wrong.

Who really knows until you actually try it.

Now I'm off to write my canned responce.

 

Way to go Stegal. Didn't cho' momma tell ya if ya don't have nuttin' nice ta say ta keep yo comments to yo-self.

Dip.

Sorry to hear this Steve. Most of us value your insight here.

 

Steve, I never have nor never will disrespect you or your opinions. I've always just been messing with you if I've ever got you riled up, and you know that Steve. Hell, every modification I did when I started was based off your experience, website, and our personal emails back and forth. My shocks, my limiting straps, some of my suspension setup(only different because of cost), etc. You've always been extremely helpful, and you have to know that I fully respect all you've done in my quest for a better trail rig. I can't get two tires to spin on wet roads, let alone all four on dry rock. That is amazing!
I can understand that you get a ton of emails, and you what Steve? The reason you get so many emails is because lots and lots of people respect your experience and your willingness to help all us newer to the sport. I can't speak for everyone, but it's unfortunate you can't do it all! Come on and try to be superman just for us!
I totally understand, and you've been an inspiration to me, as I'd love to have my own shop doing exactly what you're doing. I love to read all your projects, because it inspires me for my future projects.
Steve, I've never called you a jerk, and if I ever hinted towards this, it was only in jest in my mind, because we both seem to have a good personality for it. But, nevertheless, I'm not quite sure what people desire to achieve by calling names, etc. It's very childish and immature, in my opinion.
You're probably right Steve! I've still got a lot of fab work on my undercarriage, gas tank, and rear suspension before I even do the bigger tires, so I may find I don't even want the bigger tires, although the idea of it excites me. You know that I'll have lots of pictures and video for everyone to see once I do do it, though.
I'm not clear what that means, but my vocabulary is terrible.

Chris

 

Dude, seriously ought to go for the SAS if you plan to wheel. I was always upset by the fact that my '82 stock would go alot more places than my '93 with 3" BL and 2" suspension on 33's. Then I did the SAS and OMG I could go over obstacles in 2wd that I previously could not do in 4wd. Really, it is worth the time and effort and if you do everything yourself it doesn't cost much I think I have about $8-900 in my SAS.

 

Dude, Welcome to YT.
Do you have any more pics of youre rig?
Sorry for the Highjack Chris.

 

Did i hurt your feelings Steve ? awwwwww im sowie wittle fella. I tryed to be nice and keep it between you and my self in PMs, but you had to be stupid and bring it out in the open. Who cares.... Ill say it here my self since you opened it up to the whole board. I do no like you, I think your RUDE, and think you know it all... When you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground.

Just for the record though, i was orignaly talking about about the Thread Raven started for his bumper. This thread must jsut be another prime example of why your a jerk.

Go take your fiber and hit the bed. Its past your bed time old man.

 

Here are a couple more. I'll see what else I can drag up. Most are on another PC and my network isn't right now.... These are actually old pics the shocks were limiting, and there is more travel in the back end with new rear 64" chev springs, and new bump stops.