I was lookin around pirate for a little bit and was lookin in the ford section and was just wondering what is better, ttb or ifs for all around trail riding or are they pretty even?

 

what is ttb?

 

Twin Traction Beam is IFS.

I think the advantages of TTB might be:

Larger Ring Gear, not positive, but I believe it is bigger than 7.5"
Longer arms. TTB has a longer fulcrum than our IFS. Probably even longer than an LT kit. This brings loads of wheel travel.

The negatives would include:

Lots of Camber change as the travel droops.

Still seperates the load like IFS, difficult to fully stuff compared to SA.

Funky Ujoint/driveshaft deal inbetween the diff arm and the non diff arm.

Funky Drop bracket lifts like IFS.

To go long travel on TTB, you need custom bent or lengthened axle/beams.

 

They had a couple different version of the TTB. Some of them did have a larger ring gear, dunno bout the smaller version.

Deathrunner pretty much hit the nail on the head about the pros and cons. I have a buddy right now that is thinking about trying to make a TTB a solid straight axle. I'm pretty much watching to see how it goes...

EDIT: even though some of them had larger ring gears, the outers on them look to be about the equivalent of a D44, so your not netting a whole lot.

 

Tons of info and pictures:

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74978

 

Both suck...nuff said. Get a solid axle!

 

Well, one is Ford and one is Toyota... so whatever comes ona Toyota is probably 10x stronger. I'm not even kidding...

 

oh ya, the 2nd gen IFS system is really strong

lol seriously. I can dig liking one brand over another, but don't be a fanboi.

 

I would think from a design standpoint the strengths are:

weakest
Toy IFS
1/2ton TTB
3/4+ ton TTB
SA
strongest

 

When it comes to trail wheeling, there are a lot of other variables. The TTB is extremely strong for a stock set up but I have not seen one flex well. I had a Ranger and have had many friends with them. I have been floored more than once at how hard of a pounding they took at high speed stuff. The steering set up on the TTB is good too. It's like of like high-steer for IFS.

Never the less, having had Fords and Toyotas of the identical years, the Toyota's chassis is far more rigid and the coach works hold up better. There are less squeaks, rattle, etc... and the options like AC continue to work in the 'yota after the Explorer had $1100 in AC work. I think the aftermarket for the 'yota is better and I see a lot more of early 90's toyotas around than I do early 90's Rangers/Explorers which helps keep the aftermarket strong.

The Ford's power train back then was far superior to the Toyota's. No head gasket recalls, plenty of power, torque, etc... If you like speed and sand wheeling, that matters. If you like to crawl, it doesn't. It was the rest of the vehicle that you had to worry about and all those little things can really drive you nuts. Don't expect the Ford's paint to look good at this age either. If it was loaded, much of its options probably don't work unless the previous owner really kept up on things.

Clearly I'm here on this BBS because the Toyota won me over. I have worked on both quite a bit and from brakes down to the little things like wheel bearings, the Toyota appears over designed when compared to the Ford and its reliability is correspondingly better. This is critical to holding up to off road driving. Despite my Explorer's ample interior space when compared to the rather cramped 4runner, other issues scored against it. When all is summed up, I believe the Toyota is the better choice.

That's about as unbiased as I can get.

Frank

 

Fanboi???

Seriously, have any of you ever wheeled with any Exploders? I have, and over the course of 1 weekend last time I was out with 2(in a group of 6 rigs) of them one had a steering knuckle failure and the other snapped an axleshaft or whatever those TTB's use... Ford does not make durable running gear, that's not brand loyalty, that's scientific observation.

ANything can be made to last with bvery precise driving technique, frankly fro all teh bagging that Toyota' IFS get's there are still 1000x more IFS Toyota's out on the trail at any given time than any other IFS rigs. SFA is more robust, especialy for extreme trails and big tires/low gears, but frankly, for all the bashing IFS get's there are more IFS rigs out being wheeled and DD'd than there are SAS'd rigs. IFS may be junk for the HAmmers or Prineville, but for the rest of us.

I love reading the stereotypical posting of "Man IFS sucks, I was out with a wheel wedged, locked in the front and running 44's when WHAM!!! Stupid IFS broke... No ▓▓▓▓ sherlock... Cause... Effect.

So back to my point. the TTB may be a larger diameter ring gear, but Toyota has been proving for ages that size aint everything. I will some day do an SAS to my beloved 4RUnner. I've had the pleasure of driving SA Hilux's and LC's in Australia and Jeeps here, I like knowing that I have a SFA under me, but, for the time beaing, I have NO complaints about my Toyota IFS or not, it get's me there and it only get's better every time I add something to it.

Cheers

Dave

 

I'm not all that experienced in the world of Toyotas and the Toyota IFS, since I just bought my Tacoma last month.

However, I had a '94 Mazda Navajo 4wd (same as a same year 2 door Explorer) that had the Dana 35TTB front. Bought it used with 58,000 miles, had it for over 8 years, and still would have it if I hadn't totalled it May 2006 with about 188,000 miles on it.

It does pay to take a TTB or Twin I Beam equipped Ford to an experienced alignment technician. I have seen some alignment guys that seemed to know less about TTB/Twin I Beam suspensions than I did.

The Dana 35TTB has a high pinion 7.5" ring gear with 27 spline axleshafts and Dana 44 sized universal joints (which are plenty strong enough, used on the fullsize Dana 44 equipped Fords, Chevys, and Dodges). The biggest weakness was the wheel bearings. They were adquately sized, but were too close together.

With proper maintenance and tightening of the 2 bearing lock nuts (the outer had to be tightened much tighter than what the factory specs called for), the wheel bearings could last a long time.

Another weakness was the aluminum housed automatic hubs that are held on by the lug nuts and come off with the wheels. I personally shattered 3 automatics due to shock load before I swapped to Warn manual hubs. I never had a problem with breakage after I swapped to the Warns.

Fortunately, they are easy to remove by removing the wheels, and with the wheels/locking hubs removed, the bearings are easy to access (the bearings are inside the brake rotors, which are easy to remove).

One modification that can be done is installing Dana 44TTB outers (knuckles, outer shafts, hubs etc.) from a fullsize Ford onto the Dana 35TTB. This gives better wheel bearings, stonger locking hubs, bigger brakes, and the ability to upgrade to Dana 60 size U-joints with 30 spline outer shafts.

As long as you make sure you have good U-joints, you shouldn't have any problems with the Dana 35TTB shafts. I had a left front U-joint spit out some bearing caps, which caused the outer yoke to spread. I had to use a round file to file a place in the spindle to make room so that I could pull the shaft out, then I had to use a big hammer to beat the yoke together so I could put a new joint in.

I also noticed that I had twisted the left side shaft splines at the differential while in reverse. That was with an open front differential.

Later on, while rock crawling in Kentucky, I had another bearing cap spit out. I bought a new U-joint at a NAPA for $10, and tapped one cap from the new joint onto the old one and installed the C-clip. I never had a problem from that joint again, or the rest of the shaft.

I eventually was able to buy a Ranger front suspension for $50 from a guy that had installed a '77 Bronco front solid axle. The shafts were in better shape (no streched yoke or twisted splines), so I installed them after I put new U-joints in them.

When I installed the Ranger shafts I installed an EZ-Locker (which soon failed as EZ Lockers tend to do, so then I replaced it with a Powertrax No Slip), and despite having a locker I never had a locker related axleshaft failure, and no twist at all. For that matter, I had fewer problems with shafts and locking hubs after the locker install. It's probably just a fluke, but I had better luck with a locker than with an open differential.

The Dana 35TTB is a fairly strong assembly overall (seems to hold up better that the Dana 35 in the rear of Jeeps). Based on what I have seen posted on therangerstation.com (a website about Ford Ranger based vehicles), the Dana 35TTB can survive with 35 inch tires and a locker with no problems, and some have ran 37 inch tires with no problems.

The Dana 35TTB has good suspension travel compared to most IFSs. With radius arm modifications and the right shocks, the Dana 35TTB can have even more travel than it does. For many years quite a few Baja racers ran some form of Ford TTB or Twin I Beam (2wd) suspension with much success.

Even though I like Fords as much as I do, I also like Toyotas. Both have weak points and strong points. With all other factors being the same (miles, price, condition, etc.), I now would probably choose the Toyota. But either one would most likely be a good truck.

 

Awesome post!

 

Very good post.