TRD Injector Kit ($1299)!
Oct 9, 2003 | 05:17 AM
#121
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 840
Likes: 1
From: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
CARTECH FMU
I do not understand why the CARTECH FMU does not "replace" the OE FMU but is suppose to be installed in the return line after the OE FMU?
Does anyone have a picture of the installation?
Which model is the correct one for our trucks?
** With Factory SC, PN CAR-2022
** With Aftermarket SC, PN CAR-2025
Does anyone have a picture of the installation?
Which model is the correct one for our trucks?
** With Factory SC, PN CAR-2022
** With Aftermarket SC, PN CAR-2025
Oct 9, 2003 | 02:05 PM
#122
Registered User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,539
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From: Southern MD USA
Re: CARTECH FMU
Originally posted by ManyMods
I do not understand why the CARTECH FMU does not "replace" the OE FMU but is suppose to be installed in the return line after the OE FMU?
Does anyone have a picture of the installation?
Which model is the correct one for our trucks?
** With Factory SC, PN CAR-2022
** With Aftermarket SC, PN CAR-2025
I do not understand why the CARTECH FMU does not "replace" the OE FMU but is suppose to be installed in the return line after the OE FMU?
Does anyone have a picture of the installation?
Which model is the correct one for our trucks?
** With Factory SC, PN CAR-2022
** With Aftermarket SC, PN CAR-2025
I have some pictures on my site if you are interested of the Cartech that I tested. Do let me know if you want that one or one of the other FMUs out of my JUNK pile. I even have two different type TRD FMUs.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
Oct 9, 2003 | 02:12 PM
#123
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,539
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From: Southern MD USA
Originally posted by MTL_4runner
Hey Peter,
Yep, I was referring to Gadget's statement about the Tunda so it would be very important to have someone with this kit installed to check the A/F ratio with a wideband sensor and maybe the fuel pressure at the rail as well. If it is able to stay to the rich side through the entire range, then great. If there is a lean out point similar to the Tundra guys' experience, then I would most certainly change out the fuel pump to one with more output. I would change it out simply for safety reasons and to make sure I stand on the conservative side of fuel delivery.
If we think about this for a sec, it seems to make sense that you would need to because when Gadget did his fuel mods, in order to flow enuf fuel to keep the engine in the green, the pump needed upgrading. Now you are doing the same function (adding more fuel) just with different equipment (ie the new injector kit). No matter what you do with line pressure etc, if the pump can't supply fuel fast enuf you will be into a lean condition regardless. Yes, you are also right that it could be fuel mapping but I am not sure that makes sense. The engineer's goal would be to ensure that the map keeps the car just slightly rich throughout the full RPM range of the vehicle (this may have been a problem on the earlier 4runners 96-98 but should have been corrected when they redesigned the intake on the 99-02 versions). I would be surprised if it was the mapping but this is a possiblity without seeing what the values actually are.
I must say I am quite surprised if it is true that Toyota did not modulate the injector with some sort of duty cycle because I would think the design intent would be to match the duty cycle of the other 6 injectors to keep proper A/F ratio. The whole kit (to me) is an fix for the stock injectors' inability to deliver enuf fuel. As far as I know the ECU does not compensate at every cylinder, it only has an overall reading from the MAF and O2 sensors and has to assume equal distribution of air and fuel. A simple on/off injector would surely choke the engine with fuel and completely demolish any hope of achieving proper A/F ratio.....not to mention gas mileage.
Hey Peter,
Yep, I was referring to Gadget's statement about the Tunda so it would be very important to have someone with this kit installed to check the A/F ratio with a wideband sensor and maybe the fuel pressure at the rail as well. If it is able to stay to the rich side through the entire range, then great. If there is a lean out point similar to the Tundra guys' experience, then I would most certainly change out the fuel pump to one with more output. I would change it out simply for safety reasons and to make sure I stand on the conservative side of fuel delivery.
If we think about this for a sec, it seems to make sense that you would need to because when Gadget did his fuel mods, in order to flow enuf fuel to keep the engine in the green, the pump needed upgrading. Now you are doing the same function (adding more fuel) just with different equipment (ie the new injector kit). No matter what you do with line pressure etc, if the pump can't supply fuel fast enuf you will be into a lean condition regardless. Yes, you are also right that it could be fuel mapping but I am not sure that makes sense. The engineer's goal would be to ensure that the map keeps the car just slightly rich throughout the full RPM range of the vehicle (this may have been a problem on the earlier 4runners 96-98 but should have been corrected when they redesigned the intake on the 99-02 versions). I would be surprised if it was the mapping but this is a possiblity without seeing what the values actually are.
I must say I am quite surprised if it is true that Toyota did not modulate the injector with some sort of duty cycle because I would think the design intent would be to match the duty cycle of the other 6 injectors to keep proper A/F ratio. The whole kit (to me) is an fix for the stock injectors' inability to deliver enuf fuel. As far as I know the ECU does not compensate at every cylinder, it only has an overall reading from the MAF and O2 sensors and has to assume equal distribution of air and fuel. A simple on/off injector would surely choke the engine with fuel and completely demolish any hope of achieving proper A/F ratio.....not to mention gas mileage.
The total injector capacity is way more then what is needed. So, even if the pump starts to peter out, the over capacity of the injectors may still be able to flow the needed amount of fuel even if the pressure drops off.
I have gotten some feed back off of the injector kit installed on the Matrix supercharger kit. Appearently in that kit when the extra injector is switched on, it goes to a very over rich condition and stays there. We are talking 10:1 air/fuel ratio. That is overdoing it just a tad if the info is accurate. I think that it could make more power with a leaner mix. I was wondering how they get that kind of mix through CARB and appearently they do not test full throttle so you can get away with that kind of mix.
I am curious to see what the 3.4 kit works out to be.
In the end I am still glad to see TRD doing something to address this lean out problem.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
Oct 9, 2003 | 05:06 PM
#124
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 840
Likes: 1
From: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Re: Re: CARTECH FMU
Originally posted by Gadget
The Cartech FMU is not designed to be a true fuel pressure regulator, it is designed to be an Fuel Management Unit (FMU). It only starts doing its thing when the engine comes on boost and it works by choking down the return line after the FPR to increase fuel pressure beyond what the stock FPR would do.
I have some pictures on my site if you are interested of the Cartech that I tested. Do let me know if you want that one or one of the other FMUs out of my JUNK pile. I even have two different type TRD FMUs.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
The Cartech FMU is not designed to be a true fuel pressure regulator, it is designed to be an Fuel Management Unit (FMU). It only starts doing its thing when the engine comes on boost and it works by choking down the return line after the FPR to increase fuel pressure beyond what the stock FPR would do.
I have some pictures on my site if you are interested of the Cartech that I tested. Do let me know if you want that one or one of the other FMUs out of my JUNK pile. I even have two different type TRD FMUs.
Gadget
www.GadgetOnline.com
After reading your fine writeup on the CARTECH and TRD FMU's, it would appear that the FREE FMU is the way to go? Besides, Iam not about to remove my SC in order to install a high pressure fuel return line. Fuggetaboutit
Apparently, you are happy with the results you are getting with your 305 cc injectors w/ the FREE FMU, producing a 1:1 boost to fuel ratio?
Oct 9, 2003 | 05:12 PM
#125
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 840
Likes: 1
From: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
I am getting real itchy waiting for test results on this 7th Injector kit.
Has anyone else bought / installed this kit?
I see where the SC is being sold now as a package with the 7th Injector kit --- what a surprise
Has anyone else bought / installed this kit?
I see where the SC is being sold now as a package with the 7th Injector kit --- what a surprise
Oct 9, 2003 | 07:36 PM
#131
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,089
Likes: 0
From: Duvall, WA
Actually, it does make sense. There are two models listed;
1999 - 2000
7th injector kit
for 3.4L V-6
(fits Dual catalytic converter models)
2001 - 2002
7th injector kit
for 3.4L V-6
( all )
Since the kit requires the CA spec. emissions system, it only works on some 1999 and 2000 models because there were two versions, cal and non cal. Since 2001 ALL 4Runner's and Tacoma's have been cal spec, so the kit works on all the newer 3.4 rigs.
1999 - 2000
7th injector kit
for 3.4L V-6
(fits Dual catalytic converter models)
2001 - 2002
7th injector kit
for 3.4L V-6
( all )
Since the kit requires the CA spec. emissions system, it only works on some 1999 and 2000 models because there were two versions, cal and non cal. Since 2001 ALL 4Runner's and Tacoma's have been cal spec, so the kit works on all the newer 3.4 rigs.
Oct 10, 2003 | 02:45 AM
#136
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 840
Likes: 1
From: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Rob,
When you did the install, did you follow the directions to the letter? By that I mean, have you installed the thermostat and the colder plugs?
On your web site you say you installed the TRD headers to smooth out the power band; Magnuson believes that adding headers will move the torque curve out of the intended lower end range. I would imagine that with a modified intake and exhaust you were running excessively lean to begin with?
When you did the install, did you follow the directions to the letter? By that I mean, have you installed the thermostat and the colder plugs?
On your web site you say you installed the TRD headers to smooth out the power band; Magnuson believes that adding headers will move the torque curve out of the intended lower end range. I would imagine that with a modified intake and exhaust you were running excessively lean to begin with?
Oct 10, 2003 | 03:08 AM
#137
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 840
Likes: 1
From: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Spark Plugs
I was just checking the PN for the recommended plugs for the 7th Injector kit and the DENSO IK20 (TRD PN 00602-17620-262) are the same as the NGK BKR6EK plugs that I tried previously. These are still dual ground strap non platinum plugs and are one heat range colder than OE. I had gapped the plugs to .032" and then found that my performance suffered slightly so I regapped them closer to OE and finally reinstalled the OE plugs at the OE gap. I have experienced no problems. I keep wondering whether or not TRD is just throwing everything into the pot at this point --- just to be safe. If I recall correctly, even with all the mods Mr. Gadget has done, he is still using the OE plugs and gap?
Oct 10, 2003 | 03:38 AM
#138
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 8,807
Likes: 3
From: Montreal, QC Canada
I would tend to think the colder plugs are just to help with the leanout condition.....so if the engine doesn't see high temps like that then the stock plugs will likely be the optimal choice for your engine.
Oct 10, 2003 | 05:04 AM
#139
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 840
Likes: 1
From: Martha's Vineyard Island, MA
Do ro Die ... or both !!
Originally posted by MTL_4runner
I would tend to think the colder plugs are just to help with the leanout condition.....so if the engine doesn't see high temps like that then the stock plugs will likely be the optimal choice for your engine.
I would tend to think the colder plugs are just to help with the leanout condition.....so if the engine doesn't see high temps like that then the stock plugs will likely be the optimal choice for your engine.
I am probably going to kick myself for this but I am going to order this thing and join the league of guinea pigs who become test mules for TRD. I have not called my guy at Magnuson but figure I will do that when I am ready to install the kit sometime in the next ten days. Boy, I sure hope I do not regret pulling the trigger too early.
Oct 10, 2003 | 07:19 AM
#140
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,089
Likes: 0
From: Duvall, WA
Originally posted by ManyMods
Rob,
When you did the install, did you follow the directions to the letter? By that I mean, have you installed the thermostat and the colder plugs?
On your web site you say you installed the TRD headers to smooth out the power band; Magnuson believes that adding headers will move the torque curve out of the intended lower end range. I would imagine that with a modified intake and exhaust you were running excessively lean to begin with?
Rob,
When you did the install, did you follow the directions to the letter? By that I mean, have you installed the thermostat and the colder plugs?
On your web site you say you installed the TRD headers to smooth out the power band; Magnuson believes that adding headers will move the torque curve out of the intended lower end range. I would imagine that with a modified intake and exhaust you were running excessively lean to begin with?
That was not my experience with the headers. Back when I did the headers, I did a few dyno runs and they did not indicate a loss of low end torque. Instead what I saw was that the power from the charger smoothed out a bit, instead of going up slowly to 3k RPM, then spiking dramatically from there up. It pulled more consistantly from about 1500 RPM up. Somewhere I have the dyno slips, but I have not seen them in a while. When I wander across them again, I will pass them along.
I have never done any air/fuel mixture testing, so I can't say, but it would not suprise me to know that it was running lean in spots, except that under hard acceleration, I used to get a puff of black smoke out the tail pipe, a general indicator that you have a rich condition.
Sorry, I am not as scientific about my mods as I could be. I have done a few dyno runs along the way, but not before and after each mod as I should have done if I wanted to really be dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge
