I hope you carry a good fire extinguisher in your rig. I'll stick to the 50/50 ratio with water.

I was told that anything smaller than a 2.1" pulley spins passed the manufacturer maximum rpm specs. Also be aware that if there is a catastrophic bearing failure in the SC there isn't anything to keep those parts from getting sucked into the engine.

 

Fire extinguisher? why would I need that? i have one but it is just because i keep one in every car. Talking about the nitro? It burns but it is no worse then a wet shot of nitrous. Plus it would only be for the track/dyno, much like a nitous system.

The 2.0 spins the SC up to around ~16,500rpm - 17000rpm's which is not that high at all really, especially for our small MP62's. Mustang guys spin M90/m112's up to 18,500 all the time without issues and their rotors are MUCH larger then ours.

The only real risk with overspinning the SC are the rotors coming in contact with the walls, other then that there is not much to go wrong.

I talked to Stiegemeier http://www.stiegemeier.com/home.html About porting my supercharger and we got talking about overspinning and he said that i would have no problems at all. Said he doesn't even start to worry till ~18k on the larger blowers making ~18psi of boost.

He said at ~12psi and ~17k i should not have any issues at all especially with the meth injection keeping things cool which is the biggest problem with spinning it faster, temps skyrocket.

Even gadget said he has never seen a failure of an MP62 unit due to overspinning. On customtacos some guys are running a 1.8 pulley with no problems.

So i am not worried about overspinning it at all.

 

Well that makes me feel better about my 2.1", because URD originally told me it was very close to the limit. Maybe that info was wrong.

The fire danger I was referring to is from running straight meth (someone mentioned it earlier), if anything goes wrong with the plumbing of that look out. Meth is very flamable. At least on my setup the tank and pump are a long way from the SC and just little plastic tubing. I already fixed one leak between the tank and pump.

Hey this is #10,000 for me

 

Yeah 2.1 is NO problem at all. The MP62 is technically rated at 16k rpm's so the info is good but like everything they rate it on the safe side plus above that it is not about the unit coming apart but the temps skyrocketing, they can go from ~150-175 degrees to well over 200 degrees and in some cases 250+ which is bad if you don't have a way to control it, so they rate it at the point the will have the highest "tolerable" air temps.

Running pure meth is perfectly fine, that is what MOST real cars do, i don't know of any tuners that use 50/50 now days honestly, they have all found that pure meth works much better. Look up dynoflash on youtube, he makes some stupid power with pump gas and pure meth injection, upwards of 750rwhp in some cases.

Meth is actually less flammable then gas and safer which is why all racing organizations switched to it back in the 70's/80's. It is surprisingly hard to ignite in a leak. It's ignition temp is around 875 degrees IIRC vs gases ~500 degrees. the only thing that gets that hot in the whole car is the exhaust manifold and even that is only under full WOT for short periods of time and right next to the head, a foot or 2 back from the head and the temps are cooled down a ton.

It would be VERY hard for a fire to start that would hurt anything, meth also evaporates VERY fast and it has a low surface tension so it doesn't pool easy either.

All of these reasons are why all the major racing leagues use it/ethanol (same basic principles) over gas. It is just far safer to deal with.

The thing you do have to worry about with meth is it getting on your skin, it can do bad things if too much gets on there, but be careful with it by wearing gloves and respect it and you won't have any problems.

So i am not worried about a fire at all, used this on my MR2 as well with no issues and know of TONS of other people that do the same.

The only reason that places like snow/devils own can't recommend pure meth is because of the lawyers, if they say that and the 1 in a million car catches fire because of it they would be held liable vs saying "we told you not to do it".

If you actually talk to the guys at those places on the phone you will find even a lot of them run pure meth on their own cars.

A problem with using water is that it can actually boil in the supercharger before it gets to the engine and turn into a gas, as most of us know 1 cup of water can turn into 1600 cups of gas. So all that gas displaces the air and can cause you to lose power. meth doesn't do that which is another reason it is much better in a setup like ours.

Overall in my testing on both the MR2 and the 4runner pure meth is far better, the only reason i am still mixing the little bit of water i am is because i am too cheap to buy 1 step smaller nozzle, plus the little bit i am injecting won't hurt anything power wise.

 

Went ahead and installed the 2.0 pulley today since the tensioner won't be here till monday.

Belt slip is still very much a problem, only able to make 9psi of boost tops, most of the time it is around 8.5psi. WAY low for a 2.0, most make more then that on a 2.2.

It is a lot faster and boost comes on much quicker but up top it drops a lot of boost. Oddly the max boost is very close to what my 2.2 pulley was when i first tuned the truck 2 years ago. Guess that for some reason the belt can only hold 8.5psi of boost before it slips, just doesn't want to go above that.

Hope the new tensioner helps this, if not then my only choice is to get my custom idler pulley made which should help a lot. I am in need of an old style non-dynamic tensioner for this if anyone has one.

 

I love this type of info. TA I will write my reply to your reply soon. Probably tomorrow though.

If I want to run pure methanol injection, no h2o, do I need to have a separate fuel cell vs. the windshield washer reservoir to store the methanol for the meth injections system? In effect, does methanol evaporate easily?

 

Not sure what you are asking, no difference with the meth kit setup weather you run 50/50 or pure meth. I am using my washer fluid resivor for pure meth (or close to it anyways) works just fine.

Oh yeah, i also added a second nozzle to my truck, it is a ~130cc nozzle I had laying around, needed a little more fuel for this new pulley so decided to pump in some more meth. I want as much as possible without making the offboost areas too rich. Sitting right at 12:1 in closed loop right now with a total of ~650cc of around a 75% meth/25% water mix (had to add some more water to it with the extra nozzle to keep it from going too rich, but i need the cooling of it anyways).

 

Yeah you answered my question, I wanted to know if the washer fluid is okay to use for storing pure meth.

I am thinking that instead of using a 7th injector setup I'll just get a good meth injection setup and run that for extra fuel and cooling.

 

That would work, i would HIGHLY recommend an Aquamist HFS series as it will allow you to adjust fueling by RPM so you don't get high RPM lean out which is what i still get some of with my kit since it is not adjustable/progressive. Not enough to get knock but a tad too lean for my tastes with the 2.2.

With an Aquamist HFS 9 you will spend about the same as the URD 7th but get MUCH more performance out of it. I would do that in a heartbeat if i could sell my 7th kit for enough to upgrade......That actually gives me an idea, maybe i should see what the market is for my URD 7th/O2 calibrator, if it is enough i just might upgrade to the aquamist myself.

That is actually a good idea. Anyone know what a used but perfectly working URD 7th kit with O2 calibrator and 2.2 pulley would go for?

 

Actually i take that back, the aquamist has changed and now works off of Injector duty cycle. This is great for a car that is tuned correctly on gas alone but for our trucks that need way more fuel up top then the rest of the place it is a lot harder to tune.

It can still be done but it is not as easy and you waste a lot of the reason for the high end kit.

The "lower end" kits that are programmable and work off of RPM/boost are what you want, that way you can tune it to inject more in high RPM's vs down low.

I am doing some research now, i might get a new kit myself, i will keep ya'll updated.

Also thinking about doing an Emanage Ultimate instead of the 7th kit, it also allows for an extra injector to be used but it is fully tunable vs just controlling the injector like the FTC.

 

Oh I agree with that.

That's interesting, I have occasionally experienced sudden loss of power under some extreme accelerations in 3rd or OD gear. Maybe that's what it was. Of course the meth boiling pt is even lower than water, but are you saying it doesn't displace as much air when it boils?

 

Correct meth does boil but it doesn't displace near as much air when it does, or any at all possibly, not real sure to tell you the truth. I do know i have seen tests where the temp drop and thus denser air charge overpowers the any air the meth displaces vs water that will displace a lot more air then you could fill with a denser charge.

Meth is also a fuel so it has a use in the charge once it hits the combustion chamber other then just cooling it. Water takes up space that could be filled with fuel or air. It is GREAT are lowering EGT's but unless that is a problem, i have not seen a reason to use it.

Meth provides cooler intake temps, you can inject more of it with proper tuning, it raises the oct level and basically does something for the engine at every step.

The water only acts to cool the EGT's and stop knock, it does these well but at the cost of less air and fuel making it into the cylinder. In my experience this usually means slightly less power or at least not the gain in power meth can give.




Speaking of meth kits to be used in place of a 7th kit, i have been doing some research and found something i think might work great. It is a combo of 2 units from Coolingmist, a smart controller that can create a fueling map for the meth injection and a controller to actually inject the meth.

I think it will work great and total cost with the complete setup it only about $550 and should easily take care of your fueling needs even up to my 2.0 pulley and headers setup while giving you meth injection and a boost gauge all in one.

Not bad at all for the price considering that the 7th kit is $900 and you don't get a boost gauge or meth injection.

I am really thinking about getting it and seeing how it works, only downside to doing this will be higher meth usage at full boost but less at low boost, so hopefully total usage will only go up some, doesn't bother me since meth is $2.25 a gallon here, thinking about buying a drum of it actually to make it cheaper.

For others though the only downside would be you would need to find a source of meth locally that is reasonably priced.

Now you could use a large nozzle with a 50/50 mix if you wanted to use less meth, you would not get the gains of pure meth as i stated above but you would have no problems with knock or EGT's being high.




Here is a good read showing that you can run even at AFR's of 14.7:1 with plain water injection (and not that much of it i will add) and not have any knock or EGT problems. Keep in mind that is an NA setup but the priceables are the same, even running at 14.7 AFR with water injection you can have no knock.

http://www.myo-p.com/Dyno%20Test%20-...0Injection.pdf

Before i do this though i really want to figure out why i don't have the boost i should, i should have 12+psi but i am around 9psi. I will keep you updated.




In other news i also found you can get the tubing and push to connect fittings for the DIY meth kit at lowes, i had to get a T fitting when i added the second nozzle.

Also found nitromethane online for about $55 shipped a gallon, way better deal then the $30+ shipping snow wants for 8oz of it. might order a gallon and play with that.

Oh, if anyone has an old nitrous system or knows of a cheap setup for sale, let me know, i am tossing around a few ideas for even more power.....

Lastly i am officially taking offers for my URD 7th setup, O2 calibrator and 2.2" pulley and even the AEM meth kit, would prefer sell all the URD stuff together since it is a plug and play setup for someone needing a fuel upgrade kit, paid over $1250 for the URD stuff, it is proven and it works on my truck, just looking to change over to something a little different.

 

Interesting. So what kit would you recommend? I'm brand agnostic but I would lean towards the most bang for the buck, however I do NOT want to spend tons of time screwing with things to get it installed. Tuning time is not counted and I know I'll spend some time there. Remember I am at altitude so my needs are not the same as yours although I wouldn't mind something that has room to grow.

 

I am doing some research on this right now actually.

From my research almost everyone has moved to injector duty vs RPM for the injection.

Like i said above you can use this setup to work fine and you will not get any knock or cause any damage. Your AFR's will be a little rich down low and lean up high though and you won't get the full performance you could otherwise. It will still more then keep the engine safe and keep you running though.

I have found a setup from coolingmist that i think might work out great, it is a little more complicated to install but still no harder then the URD 7th and a meth kit would be separately. It also has a LOT of options and would be very expandable later on for just about anything.

Only thing holding me back from pulling the trigger and getting this setup is some more research and i will lose the ability to control timing without the URD box. Not a major problem since my timing is zeroed out already but i might actually want to ADD timing.

I have noticed for a long time that my truck feels a lot peppier on cold start up, i can never got WOT while cold (since that is stupid) but just normal driving it feels a lot more peppy.

This is either the tranny fluid being thicker and causing it to put more power to the ground through the converter or it is because the ECU is running more timing due to the cooler temps.

Gonna try and experiment and try upping the timing some with the URD to see if it makes a difference. With as much water/meth as i am injecting knock should not be a problem no matter how much timing i run but i want to see if it adds power.

Also heard about people adjusting the coolent temp sender voltage to add timing, anyone done this?

 

"Also heard about people adjusting the coolent temp sender voltage to add timing, anyone done this?"


I've heard of folks running the 'dashpot' mod, they add a variable resistor inline with the sensor... the idea is that the engine runs different timing until it's warmed up (and in closed loop mode) so if you trick the ECU to tell it that the vehicle is not warmed up yet it will stay with more advanced timing (I think that's it anyway...)

don't quote me directly on that but a place to start maybe....

very nice writeups and observations on this subject TA, you've already proven that you can eliminate URD's kit altogether and get fantastic (and safe) results in power just the same. It's good to see someone actually doing their homework on this, I just don't have the time right now... but soon!

picking up 10gal of meth tomorrow, ran out this week.... oops

 

Looked up the coolant temp mod, seems it only advances timing under idle and not while driving so that theory is out the window.

Not sure why i have a lot more power sometimes then others then. Well, i will do some more experimenting and see what comes of it.

I know i have wondered about my tranny being the reason for that since the day i got the truck, even before i supercharged it. i can take off from a stop sign 2 times and get totally different amounts of power even though they were within 30 seconds of each other. I had wondered if it was the torque converter ect causing this since day 1.

Anyone else have that problem, power feels totally different from stop sign to stop sign and no common reason for it?

 

Well found out some stuff, decided to test out timing advance to see what it did, found that the URD unit can't advance timing after all, only retard it. So that makes going to the full meth setup much more feasible and with basically no downsides.

While i was out i decided to log my timing during a few pulls, it was about ~16 degrees @ 3000rpm climbing to ~20 degrees @ 5500 which from what i can find is basically the stock timing map. For the heck of it i went into the R4 software and pulled 3 degrees from the whole map to see what would happen. Did the test again and the stock ECU added the lost timing right back in!

Showing that it can run stock timing with no knock at all even with a 2.0 pulley. So the URD kit is truly not needed since the only thing it can do that a meth kit can't is pull timing.

Thinking i will finish up my research and then pull the trigger on the meth setup if I think it will work for my needs, remember i am running 2.0 pulley and have headers, my needs are more then 90% of you, so if it will work for me, it will SURE work for you.

When i was talking to coolingmist about this setup they said they might be able to work out a deal for us if there is enough interest.

So would anyone else be interested in an alternative to the URD 7th kit that will net you better performance, the ability to go extreme with your build and costs less too boot?

Think total price would be around $550 give or take a little from what he was saying they could do. Will call again tomorrow and see what they say.

After i get it setup to run on meth, then i get to play with more fun stuff like nitromethane and nitrous, which the meth setup i am talking about can actually control as well.....

 

Ok, just got the new tensioner in today and tried it out.

I can 100% confirm it is the correct part numbers and it fits and works great!




Did some testing with the R4 software running to log boost before and after.

Gained just shy of 1psi of boost from installing the new tensioner. I am now up to 10psi tapering to 8.5psi by redline. So still a lot of belt slip but at least it is getting better.

So anyone that has a lot of miles on your tensioner, here is a cheap way to replace it and possibly gain some more boost and stop some belt slip.

$40 shipped is not a bad price for it at all IMO.

Gonna see about working on my custom idler pulley tomorrow since it is obvious i need something else, got a few ideas running around. Will update as i work through it, i NEED full boost/power!

In other news I also think i have just about finished my research on the meth injection setup, I am thinking about ordering it later tonight. basically you will get the complete setup of everything you need to run a supercharger safely with any pulley you want for under $600 vs the $800 for the URD 7th that doesn't even give you the gains from meth.

Also, my URD 7th, O2 calibrator and 2.2" pulley are all officially for sale as well. Have to sell this pretty quick if i am going to be able to pay for this new meth setup.

 

Just placed the order for the new meth kit, will see how it goes once it comes in.

Grand total with shipping came to $585, not bad at all for what you are getting. He also said we could upgrade from the normal nozzles to a single super atomizing nozzle.

After a lot of research, thanks in large part to this calculator: http://www.spray.com/flowratecalculator.asp

I think the CM10 10gph nozzle is the one we want. It flows about the same at the lowest pressure as my 7gph nozzle is flowing now which is about perfect for the low end with the right water/meth mixture. I am thinking i will end up with about a 80-90% meth mixture depending on what the final flow at the lowest pressure is. then i can ramp it up to the full flow on the top end to keep things from leaning out.

Did some more experimenting with timing today, i removed some fuel up top so it would lean out to see if the timing numbers changed indicating knock.

Removed enough fuel so it was getting up to a little over 13:1 at redline and the timing on the OBDII hardly changed, no more then it normally changes run to run. So it is obviously more then able to control knock even at lean mixtures with a 7gph mix of about 60% meth to 40% water (running about a 9gph nozzle now with both of them combined so had to add more water).

Very interested in seeing how this new setup works, would be nice to have all the gains of the meth injection AND be able to save the money for a 7th injector kit.

Thinking about making an adapter for the nozzle that will fit where the 7th injector is now, would make for a cleaner install and would stop the water/meth from pooling in the intake piping under low loads (quickly drys out after a little driving but that is still lost water/meth that is not helping the engine).

Like always i will keep you updated. Maybe i should make a new thread about this meth setup since no one is really reading this one.

 

You have a great thread with many helpful ideas and tips. Just not everyone has a 3.4 with supercharger.