No need for the old blower! When my engine finally gives out, i thought about swapping in the Lexus 4.0 V8 in, until I stumbled across this...http://ttcperformanceproducts.com/

 

You know your right. This is probably going to take to much time to engineer a inter cooler between the two. I'm probably going to end up with water injection (poor mans intercooler) once the dust settles on this build. I'm running out of days because I got to get to a race next week (am currently missing a BITD race now).

Still waiting on headers to get here which has really put the build on hold. Not-To-Self: Make sure the vendor has item instock ready to ship before ordering with them next time.

 

You could always implement a centrifugal supercharger, in which case you could use an intercooler. But this would take a lot of engineering for the intake and mounting bracketry.

 

With a centri he won't have that low down grunt and torque that the roots style give. I think roots are better on heavy vehicles like the 4Runner.

 

I agree, might as well go with a turbo. I had a Saab turbo once and it was a dog from a standing start, but once going it would really move. I think it would go 60 to 90 faster than 0 to 30.

 

A properly sized centrifugal has the same low-down grunt as a roots (but more importantly can use an intercooler), and is definitely a far cry from a turbo. Why do you think centri's are so popular on fullsizes?

 

Wow!!! What a thread!!! Read the whole darned thread over two days but pose a different scenario ….
Info:1999 4Runner, Factory Front AFR Sensor, 3.4 , 5Spd, 1st stage Weasy2k cams, Manely swirl polished valves, Complete Balanced top to bottom, Stock Compression (Head and block surfacing being negligible), Throttle Body “O” gasket, Deck Plate, Dough Thorley Headers, Good flowing exhaust….

My truck runs great but throws a CEL—Cat efficiency…no biggie…. But, I would like to get the most from my current set-up, eliminate the CEL and make sure the computer isn’t too far off--That means Tuning and AFR Gauge.

So from URD--From what I read it looks like the MAP-ECU2, Wiring Harness, and an AFR Monitor/Gauge is what I need to do basic tuning in N/A mode (increase initial timing and etc) and eliminate the CEL.

Ultimate goal is 225-240 Crank hp. Not looking for the most power—but simplicity, little more power, and reliability. I will dyno my current set-up and see where I am. If I’m not happy with the results then I will add on as needed--new injectors if lean, SC…etc... I am trying to forward plan…

At 185hp the stock 240cc injectors duty cycle is 68%--AT 240hp , 311cc, injectors would have a 68% duty cycle.—I like this duty cycle….but don’t want to flood out…

1. So would the above URD electronics meet my needs—could I get by with something less expensive?
1a. Would I be fine with the AFR gauge versus the more expensive monitoring set up?
2. Would it meet my needs if I were to upgrade to a supercharger (Stock pulley)—injectors?
3. At those numbers could I get by with just upgrading the injectors versus going with the 7th injector?
4. How come more folks don’t use ethanol/methenol injection versus the 7th injector

Suggestions or pointers here folks—or am I on the right track—the biggest variable being it isn’t a stock motor…

Thanks Henry

 

That should give you some basic tuning for the timing, but you won't be able to do anything with the fuel in closed loop because the computer will counteract it.

You'll want an OBD-II reader too.

I seriously doubt you'll break 220 hp unless you up your redline by another 1500 rpms. With all of the stuff you've mentioned, you're talking maybe 205 (say 5 for the deckplate, and another 15 for the cams and headers). The fact is unless you're able to burn more fuel (more compression, forced induction) you won't be able to get a whole lot more power.

You won't need bigger injectors unless you go FI later on. Getting bigger ones now will just make your idle rougher, and you'll have to tune back the fuel trims.

A wideband gauge and basic FTC should be fine.

All you need is AFR and OBD-II.

I would personally go with a 7th injector kit when you get the supercharger, because bigger injectors are more difficult to tune, and aren't needed right now.

If you get a supercharger, you'll need to increase your fuel delivery somehow, 318cc injectors would do the trick, or the 7th injector.

Water methanol injection can cool your CDT and EGT if you're pushing higher boost (say 9+ psi, 2.2" pulley) but doesn't fix the fuel delivery issues. You still need bigger injectors or a 7th injector (especially if you're pushing more boost).

 

If you want more power up front, you can get the URD AFR sensor calibrator, which would allow you to run the engine richer. You can also get one built-in to the 7th injector control unit.

Your mileage will take a big hit, but you'll have more power running at 12:1 AFR. Since I have a factory narrowband sensor (1998 4Runner) this is what I did: O2 Sensor Calibrator w/ a pressure switch

 

This should take care of a P0420, if that's what you're getting.

http://www.urdusa.com/index.php?cPath=66_170

 

Wow, good work on that solution.

Makes me thankful for my wideband sensors in my 2002 though. URD's AFR calibrator drops me down to about 13.2:1 at part throttle boost with no ill effects.

 

They sell abox for the narrow band sensors as well that does the same thing, i have one, works great.

Oh and to the guy wanting ot get 200+hp from an NA motor, don't worry about it, just spend that money on a superchager, you will get 3 times the performance for 1/10th the work.

Also, for tuning, just get the URD 7th injector kit whatever you do, it will allow you to tune an NA setup as well and is much better then changing injectors.

 

Already Built the motor ACE

Thanks guys--

I have a BR-3 OBD II reader but I am not sure it is picking up my AFR. Doesnt seem like there is much activity--?

So I will need the URD Simulator(Takes care of CEL), URD AFR Sensor Calibrator and URD AFR Gauge to read it all right. BUT!! Cant increase initial timing unless I get the MAP-ECU2.

If i am going to add in the fuel then I need to add in the timing--Thought the MAP-ECU2 would handle a lot of this stuff??What about just going to an SMT7 instead?

 

I made a home made O2 Simulator at radio shack for like $15 when i did mine, i think i put the details in my build thread from WAY back.

The OBD reader just reads, it doesn't really do anything, just allows you to see what is going on.

Honestly, if you did that i highly doubt you need to touch the tuning side of things. There is nothing you listed that will change the power level more then a little bit which the stock ECU will figure out and then adjust to just fine.

Install a wideband, drive the truck hard for a few weeks and i bet the ECU takes care of it and you don't have to mess with anything.

Honestly i don't see you making more then ~15 - 20rwhp more then stock with that setup and you would be lucky to see that. The rebuild will see as much gains from the low milage as the cams and such.

Try the stock ECU at first, see how it does. I bet it works fine after it learns your new setup.

 

ACE i hear what you are saying--But if i can squeeze out a little more with tuning--say 10-15--then I meet my goal. If i can richen the mixture a tad while NA and dial in some timing--that would be great....and I have been driving it since this summer--it does nice--but more is always better

So I Could do this:

1. Order the 7th injector kit--dial in timing and A/F ratio

2. Wide band Gauge (suggestions). This would leave me room to upgrade to SC if i wanted more power......I think this is the way to go--

What says you?

Question--are the factory equipped 4runners with AFRs' sensors considered OBDII-CAN versus regular OBDII

Thanks again

 

Glad you like it! It's been working great for me, and gives me closed loop operation on an AFR other than 14.7 (I've got it aiming for 12:1). As soon as I hit 1psi, the AFR drops down

 

As i said, try th stock ECU first, i bet it works fine, will save you a lot of money.

IF you find you need to tune it (i highly doubt you will), then just get the 7th injector kit. By far the easiest and best way to do it and as you said later will allow you to upgrade. Plus you can always sell it later, there is always a market for those.

What year is your truck?

 

I'd agree with this if you stay NA. I'd say start with a wideband A/F gauge as see what you got first. I bet open loop is already pretty rich. Unless you are really concerned with part-throttle closed-loop power band. When I told you to read this thread I was thinking you were adding a blower, I didn't know you were staying NA. Oh well it was probably a help anyway.

 

Mine (2001 Taco) is regular OBDII as far as I know.

 

4Runner is a 1999 AFR equiped

I AM LISTENING GUYS--Dont get fustrated--i am also a motor guy t0-before all this--it was easy to dial in fuel and initial timing--We have more compression in the engine than stock and 2% leak down--the motor was built exceptionally well--Not much more compression but I would like to take advantage of that and optimize. IF it does run FAT in open loop--I want to dial in more timing thier also--

Also, IIRC, closed loop operation is only "on" till the motor warms up right? after that it is in "OPEN" loop? Are we on the same page?

Also, Sorry about all the posts guys--ACE--any time in Austin--lets go for beers --or Anybody else--ACE is just closer--and Texan so i know he likes beer

So here is what I am thinking

MAP-ECU2 for timing, speedo adjust, and CEL cancelation (add the AFR Module just in case)

Wide band gauge--to check it out

This way I can play to--I have a feeling deep down low that a SC might pop its head up. ~$1100 bones isnt to bad and I am comfortable with that. Later on I can add widgets if need be

Man what learning experience this has been......THANKS

Nobody has answered this yet--but what AFR gauge do yall like best? Looks like LC-1 is popular--what do you think about the multi gauges like the PLXs' with integrated OBD capabilities?