furtherlane@aol.com

I just put a deposit on a Black 1999 SR5 4x4 with many options like power moonroof, towing, etc., and with only 45k miles on it. The Carfax is perfect. I'm getting it checked out by a Toyota service department tomorrow. It's also much more comfortable than any of the other dozen or so 4runners I've tested.

The asking is only $15,995. From a Nissan dealer & it's firm, reduced from $17k. They say they're losing $$$ on it. I did however find two scratches and then a serious ding on the rear liftgate. Does this warrant any further negotiation, or is this too good a deal to screw up? Anything else I should know? Also, is it true that in 1999, Toyota 4 runners grew from 178 inches, to 184 inches? Anyone know why? And where does it show?

Thanks all!

RSL

HBoss

Nice. Does it have a rear locker by chance (just curious)?

I think it grew in overall length because it grew "the chin" on the front bumper starting in 1999.

tomus1000

BULL SH#T! There is lots of money in used cars. If they are willing to sell it to you for $16k then they own it for between $13 and $14k. You stay in business by making a profit. If they were losing money at 16k then they would not be selling it for that amount. How are you paying for the vehicle? Are you financing through the dealer, financing through your own bank, paying it off out of your own funds? Your method of payment may determine how much more you can haggle. Special financing costs the dealer something. If you are just going to bring a check then you have more bargaining power. Are you in love with the truck and worried about losing it to another buyer? I would make a serious offer of $15,200. If the dealer says "No", then it forces him to make a counter offer somewhere in the middle. If they really want to sell the truck, then they will make you an offer. That line about losing money is a load of crap. That is an old way to try to end the negotiation.

I does sound like a good deal. A few dings and scratches are to be expected. My 2002 has a couple.

Good Luck.

solarcrew

Tomus hit it on the nose.With the supposed bad economy,dealers are offering people $2000 below trade-in value on their trades.They've probably got a $6000 profit margin to work with.I'd walk back in and lowball them at $14,500.Then make'em meet you in the middle.If they say no,walk out.They'll call when you get home to see if your still interested.Stick to your price and go from there.Good luck!

knemo77

IF U REALLY like the truck its a great price. low miles.. dings are easy to fix. make them show you the invoice from the auction or trade in. see if they are lying, ifn they are id walk away.

calrockx

haha, "the chin"
i haven't heard that before, i like it



oh and by way, that sounds like a great deal. go for it

furtherlane@aol.com

The problem with negotiating is that the dealer told me about the "GALVES" BOOK, which is the dealer's version of the Kelley Blue Book, or the NADA GUIDES. Apparently, this book tells the dealer's what the "knockdown" dealer auction price will be, should they get tired of trying to unload a used vehicle to the public. So the dealer told me that the GALVES price on a 1999 4Runner was about $14,500, and then when the "extras" are added on, sunroof, ABS, towing, alarm, etc. that brings the price up to the $15,995 range, which is what they are offering it to me for. Plus, there's always that mysterious "BACKUP" buyer looming in the picture. It would be a major drag, if I bluffed a big price dip, and there really was a buyer waiting to scoop up a cherry '99 for $15.995, in light of the NADA & KELLEY estimates of $21+k retail oin this year.

DrummerDaveB

It does sound like a good price, but you CAN negotiate.
I agree with Tomus. They're feeding you a load of crap about the firm - losing money thing.

Especially if you are paying cash, or getting financing from your bank, etc. and can just give them a check, 15,500 cash - out the door, sales taxes and fees included. Tell them that is ALL you can afford and cant move for a penny more.
They will probably begrudgingly take it.
If not, walk out the door, and let them chase you.
You CAN get the price down.

When I bought my 4Runner a couple months back, thats what I did.
They wanted $13,000 and said they were firm. We offered 12,000 out, and they wouldnt take it. I didnt expect them to, so we finally haggled a bit, and I got up to 12,500 out, and told them we just couldnt afford any more, and would have to look elsewhere if they wouldnt sell it for that. They did. Considering taxes were $700, we got it for about $1200 less.

ryan k

I would recommend reading this entire site before shopping for new / used cars

the info from this site saved me thousands.

www.carbuyingtips.com

furtherlane@aol.com

Thank you all so much for your generous time & insights!!! I already had one near disaster this AM.

The non-selling Toyota service facility refused to inspect the 4Runner I want to buy, because the selling dealer (at Nissan) couldn't leave his Dealer Plates on the truck for the day while they had the truck up on the lift.

The Toyota service manager told the Nissan salesman to come back on Monday, that they'd do the diagnositc and have it out in 60 minutes. The Nissan salesman handling my transaction, a Chinese man who is very hard to understand, told me that wouldn't work, that he was refunding my deposit nd offering the 4runner to the next shmuck in line. I got another Nissan salesman on the phone (maybe his manager) to complain, and he told me to ignore the first guy, that they'd hold the 4runner until Monday. I TRULY HATE THESE GOOD COP/BAD COP ROUTINES. It makes me want to haggle them to death all the more!

Any stories to share?

Rob

rimpainter.com

www.carbuyingtips.com is awesome, as someone mentioned. I have used that in the past.

These guys are complete vultures. Its a dog eat dog business.

My friend is a fleet manager at Ford. He tells me about all the tricks and tactics. There are so many hidden tricks that the public doesnt know about...its almost scary.

The biggest advantage is to have a check in hand. Dont get caught up in their financing (they make more money that way).

Try the 30 minute stopwatch technique as described in the above website, that gets em pretty good.

And remember, you NEVER have to give them your insurance and license to make a copy. They will run your credit while you are gone! Then they will harass you with phone calls. All you have to do is show them your license and proof of insurance. If they tell you otherwise, walk, they are full of it.

knemo77

if you put the deposit down they will have to hold it...or report them to the bbb and stand in front of the dealership with a nasty sign j/k. I'd say pay the 15,995, its a great price, if they won't let you have it inspected...why dont you take it someplace else. Check the compression and look at all the expensive parts. If they wont let you privatly inspect the car I think there is a big problem that the mechanic will find.

When you are spending 16,000 dollars someplace they should have to cater to you not the other way, id have half a mind to tell em to F-off and find another runner, theres plenty of nice ones out there.

rimpainter.com

I agree. Especially Automatics. 5 speeds are a bit of a different story, it was really hard to find a nice 3rd gen 5 speed.

Hence the reason I flew to San Diego and paid $16K for my 96.

Of course, it had 66K miles, a $400 stereo, new tires, and was in amazing condition with every option. But still, I overpaid.

A 99 for the same price as my 96? Sounds good to me. But, be prepared to walk if you have to.

zedex

Wait till you sign on the dotted line. They will tack on more costs like closing fees, documentation fees. You tell them they can stuff those fees up their asses. The deal is 15.5 or whatever you agreed on and THATS IT.

dajabr

Dealers lie. They will tell you what you whatever will make you pay them. Given what I just read I'd say walk away from it, there's too much to mistrust at this point. You'll find something.

furtherlane@aol.com

A funny thing happened on the way to work...after my last post, I saw this young dude cleaning out a 1999 silver 4Runner in a NYC parking lot. he said he'd had a 4 sale sign up which I must have missed.

I told him I'd put a deposit on a '99 for $15.9k. He said he'd sold the 4Runner to the parking lot owner for $11.5k. That made me NUTS!!! Then it turns out he owed the guy over 4k for non-payment of 6 months of parking for all of his cars. Plus, his 35k miles were mostly off-road miles, he was a chain smoker with cloth seats, and the truck was pretty dinged up.

My point? My deal @ $15.9 is a good one. The Toyota dealership ran the VIN and said the truck recently had new tires put on, and a brake job. Their inspection showed nothing else, no other suggested "fixes" Just because some sc*mbag low life salesman is trying to close out a sale by the month's end, doesn't mean I should lose out on a great looking and great driving truck!

Thoughts??

And yes, they want additional fees (maybe $50 or so, plus 8.25% tax)

tomus1000

Yea, one more suggestion. Forget about dealing with the salesperson. They are useless. You want to be dealing with either the Sales Manager or the Business Manager. They are the only ones who can truly negotiate the price of a vehicle. They are the only ones who have access to what they paid for the truck and they are the only ones authorized the make "deals". Forget about the salesperson.

Here is the plan:

Call the dealership on the phone and ask to speak to the sales manager. The girl who answers the phone with just transfer you to the manager. Introduce yourself and tell the manager your situation. "I am interested in this truck"... "the salesman was a jerk"..."I'd rather deal with the manager"...."I'd like your help to try and work out a deal on this vehicle."

Stuff like that. Get it? Remember, the salesperson is there to earn a commission. The higher the selling price, the higher the commission. The manager is there to move vehicles, not to walk customers over a high price. The manager will sell the vehicle at a better price because his first priority is to the business. He does not have to earn a commission, nor does he have to pay a commission if a salesperson is not involved.

Try this approach tomorrow. You should have much better luck. Do not fell bad for the salesperson because you went over his head. He would have screwed you in a heart beat. Let us know how you make out. Go get 'em

snappy

It sounds to me that you had already made up your mind to purchase this vehicle, and that you're hoping this board will help ease that nagging feeling at the back of your mind. I don't mean to be harsh, but I'm telling you what you need to hear, versus what you WANT to hear.

Suspicious: The car is not available for inspection. Without this, you're in the blind, so your good deal may end up biting you in the behind. What does a new tranny, headwork, or exhaust manifold cost to replace? When you add on a couple $G of repairs, does your price look as appetizing?

You trust the dealer too much. The paramount rule of negotiating is never to reveal your reserve price. Why is it that the salesperson is always asking "What are you willing to pay?" and not the other way around. Turn things in your favor by finding what their lowest is -- the cash in hand tactic is very powerful. Them telling you that they are losing money is a load of poop. If you hang out at a dealership, you will see emotional buyers trade in things and lose $3-5 grand in the process. This "pad" allows for a resale at a profit. Your best tactic is to estimate what the actual trade in value was, and come down with that amount in cash. Lay it out on the table and start talking.

The blue book is bull˟˟˟˟. Dealers quote from it when they want to, and if the price they are offering is OVER the blue book, the line is ... well, why don't you go and buy another vehicle like this one from the blue book. It is only a price guide, and a bad one at that.

When cars are purchased at an auction, the dealer does not pay for options. These cars are sold on overall mileage and exterior condition. Don't get rationalized to believe that all of these things add cost to the vehicle -- a cost that is passed on to you.

Either stick by your logic: Be calm and cool in negotiating a GREAT price on a vehicle that you know everything about - Mechanicals, title history, previous owner (check the radio presets, the ashtray, does the headliner have pet hair stuck to it?) and be prepared to walk away from a ˟˟˟˟ty deal.

or

Just give in to the emotional side and buy it cause you like it.



If you need assistance in looking for a vehicle, I suggest autobrokers. They are very up-front with their overhead costs, and as they do not stock inventory, have less expenses that they need to pass on to you. They usually require a deposit, but it is non-refundable ONLY if they don't find the exact car you are looking for.

Please don't take this as a negative post. I just don't want to see you get taken advantage of. Don't fall into the impulse-buyer mindset that this is THE vehicle you need, and that someone else is just waiting to buy it if you miss it. Could be true, but if it's a poor-condition vehicle, it will be the other buyer's loss -- not yours.

furtherlane@aol.com

Thanks guys & snappy for those great answers! Here's the plan: they are letting the local Toyota service dealer inspect the car Monday.

the service mgr. @ Toyota ran the VIN for me. His company sold the original owners the Truck. He said they just had new tires mounted, brakes re-done and the rotors filed. They found no other problems @ 41k miles. (Truck now has 46k)

PLUS: They told me the original owner hadn't maintained the truck at their service facility, but that it appeared to have been well cared for. (which is why they found no problems) They also gave me the original owners name. I plan to call them, ask them various questions, as well as how much they got on trade for the Truck.

The only bad news is IF the salesman turns out to be the sales mgr. (which I doubt)

Rob

tomus1000

Not likely. The manager does not take "up's", meaning they do not actively engage fresh customers. That is what the salesperson is there for.