Engine swap or rebuild for a '99 V6?

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Feb 22, 2011 | 05:01 PM

#21

ntoracn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dazbert

The head(s) won't go back on without seeing a machine shop - learned that the hard way before too!
Thanks all for the advice - I'll update when the problem has been identified & resolved.

I wonder how this break in proceedure would apply to TTY head bolts?

Feb 22, 2011 | 07:12 PM

#22

mt_goat

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From: Oklahoma State

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntoracn

I wonder how this break in proceedure would apply to TTY head bolts?

Are you talking about EB's new bolt break-in procedure? If you had a TTY head bolt you wouldn't want to go to the full 100% torque but once, but the 5VZFE doesn't use TTY head bolts. You can see here the FSM doesn't list them as a non-reuseable part. http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/1996/SIL/...ylhea/comp.pdf

Feb 23, 2011 | 05:26 PM

#23

ntoracn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mt_goat

I believe the 25 ft. lbs. +90 degrees +90 degrees is considered a TTY head bolt. However, you are correct that Toyota DOES list them as reusable. As an automotive tech, I'm not sure if I would risk a $500 gasket set and a customer "come back" by trying to re-use the head bolts. Toyota clearly says you can, but I don't know if I would risk it when new bolts are less than $150. Just my opinion.
Have a good one!

Feb 23, 2011 | 06:06 PM

#24

mt_goat

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From: Oklahoma State

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntoracn

As an automotive tech, I'm not sure if I would risk a $500 gasket set and a customer "come back" by trying to re-use the head bolts. Toyota clearly says you can, but I don't know if I would risk it when new bolts are less than $150. Just my opinion.
Have a good one!

Yeah the real risk IMHO is having one break on you during the torquing process.

Here's another quote from EB on that:

Quote:

>>>*Morning!

*Quite a discussion. We always replace the head bolts on the 3VZE, mostly because of early on we had two cases of breaking them. This spoils a day quickly...

*Ever notice it is nearly always either the last one or the next to last one?...*LOL**

I personally won't make the studs, I do not own the equipment to roll the threads during the forming process. Sure, I could set up and cut the threads, this is much weaker than a formed and rolled out piece. *More work, too and I'm lazy.......All it takes is one little stress riser and the stud can break.

Usually breakage with bolts is due to the threads creating resistance, they stop turning. The same can happen with a stud if the nut end threads are not completely free and lubed. Once they stop slipping as they are torqued, you are now twisting the shaft of the piece. I have had a couple of cases of folks breaking brand new bolts, this is the cause of that.

If the shaft of the fastner is actually twisted rather than tightened into the block, it is not creating clamping force at all, even though the torque wrench may read accurate load.

Yep, it can break. So before we even think of going to maximum torque, we clean the threads in the block with a chaser, (NOT a tap)..Then we oil the threads and spin the bolt all the way in and out with our fingers. This assures they are clean and lubed.

Then we pull them to 50%, all of them. ... back off 1/4 turn and repeat, note each time it will turn a tad more before 50% is reached. This is because the threads are bedding in. We do this 5 times, then we go to 75%, then to 100%, all done. We do this with ALL new fastners...it assures a more even clamping force, inconsistant clamping force is the number 2 cause of early head gasket failure..(heat is number one)

It takes some time, sure, but it takes less time than pulling the head back off...Hope this helps.....*EB

Mar 16, 2011 | 01:55 PM

#25

dazbert

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From: Carlsbad, CA

Thanks for all the advice guys! I ended up going to my local dealer to get the gaskets replaced, and found that every cylinder had a head crack between the valves, so it cost a lot more than expected.
I now have two new factory heads (it took over a week to source all the necessary parts - either there was a run on heads/valves for 4Runners in So Cal or they are rarely needed!) back on the truck and it's running like new. Here's to another 235K miles before another visit like that . . . . .

Mar 19, 2011 | 08:20 PM

#26

aowRS

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From: Ellicott City, MD

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazbert

That's good news. What was the approximate damage for all of this?

Andreas

Mar 19, 2011 | 08:26 PM

#27

dazbert

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From: Carlsbad, CA

I got less than $50 change from $6k . . . . but considering it's the first real costly work done on the truck in 235k miles, I can't really complain too much!

Mar 19, 2011 | 10:26 PM

#28

cpizzle42

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Yikes 6K! that hurts

What was the break down of money for labor and money for parts?

Mar 19, 2011 | 10:34 PM

#29

scuba

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From: Austin, Texas

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpizzle42

Yikes 6K! that hurts

What was the break down of money for labor and money for parts?

X2.
Parts would have been less than 1/2 of that.

EDIT: Bet you anything the heads cracked because the valves were never/ rarely adjusted or shimmed and they got too tight.

Last edited by scuba; Mar 19, 2011 at 10:35 PM.

Mar 20, 2011 | 05:00 AM

#30

dazbert

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From: Carlsbad, CA

Labor: $2300; Parts: $3350.

Parts breakdown-

Heads $2032
Gaskets $375
"Valve Assy" - 255
Ex. Valves (12) - 240
In. Valves (12)- 170
Fuel injector (one was literally falling apart) - 175

As I said before, I'm hoping that's the last I see of mechanics (outside of oil changes) for a couple hundred thousand miles . . . .

Mar 20, 2011 | 05:16 AM

#31

waskillywabbit

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Just bought a whole 99 4runner with wrecked passenger side for $1500
Totaled from wreck. 80k on motor. Going in a 95 4Runner. There are deals to be had if you look around.

:wabbit2:

Mar 20, 2011 | 07:31 AM

#32

dazbert

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From: Carlsbad, CA

If I had wanted a deal, I could have gotten a motor from a breaker yard with < 100k on it, but I'd rather stick with the devil I know . . . . it may have cost more, but I do have recourse if anything goes wrong.

I also got the heads from the dealer for a little project . . . I'm going to clean them up, polish them and build a stand for them. Then I'll put some glass on the top and use it as table. Whenever I get round to doing it I'll document the process in case anyone else wants to do it!

Last edited by dazbert; Mar 20, 2011 at 08:25 AM.

Mar 20, 2011 | 08:50 AM

#33

94toyota

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From: concord, ca

all you need is a head gasket probably i highly dout you cracked the ead with a new head gasket that thing should hit 300k easy the only reason i could see why you would of cracked a head is if your drove the car while it was overheated till it shut off