87 22r rebuild issue - YotaTech Forums



86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

87 22r rebuild issue

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-04-2015, 10:18 PM   #1
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5
87 22r rebuild issue

Hey guys im new to the forum and do not own said truck but did a rebuild on the engine for the truck and i have some questions.
so to start it was a 1987 toyota pickup 22r. we pulled the engine tore it down hot tanked sent the block and head for decking and maging. we bought a rebuild kit from the machine shop to insure we had all the parts needed to complete the job right. in school we had a toyota instructor helping us when we couldnt find the information on all data,cause we were ford students we relied on him a bit. during the rebuild we plasty gauges all bearings and checked all piston ring clearances and had the machine shop cut the valaves and valve seats. and assemble the head sence they were rebuilding the rocker arms to put new pads on. the motor was within factory specifications. fast forward to now. my buddy drives the truck just over 30 miles and it locks up cold. we pull it back out and find rod bearing number 2 has actually started to heat weld together we are assuming oil starvation.also we found scaring on some cam lobes on the new cam we had installed and we are stumped. we checked everything. platy gages every bearing and insured everything was to spec. what could cause this we are at a loss. the rebuild kit came with a new oil pump so we dont believe it was a issue of oil pressure due to being oil on the top side of the motor.now we have the issue of needing an new crank cause the one in there is beyond repair and needing at least one rod. but we are planning on doing all new rods to be safe and all new bearings we would just like to know what could cause this issue. cause quite frankly im damn nervous about putting a new crank, rods and bearings and having a repeat of the issue. thanks for all of you who read the whole post and respond. any thoughts or help is greatly appreciated.
bigjstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 02:06 AM   #2
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
wyoming9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods
Posts: 12,149
Red face

You did prime the new oil pump??

wyoming9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 02:54 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Odin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 905
Almost sounds like the engine was cranked for too long wiping off whatever was put on the crank and cam as an initial start up protectant. How long was the motor cranked before it started?


Run a good designated break in oil over additives. -Brad Penn is good stuff

Last edited by Odin; 07-05-2015 at 03:04 AM.
Odin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 04:54 AM   #4
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
wyoming9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods
Posts: 12,149
Red face

In the old days I used STP for assembly lube with no problems.

Now I use Moly Grease

I have also used Vaseline for priming oil pumps.
wyoming9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 05:25 AM   #5
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5
i was not there for the install and asked the guy if he primed the oil pump and he did not. we used ALOT off assembly lube during the assembly process. if the priming of the pump was the issue why was number 2 rod the only damaged one. cause as we were loosening main caps and rods the only one that held the motor was number 2. we pulled and inspected the other bearings and they all showed very little signs of wear?
Attached Thumbnails
87 22r rebuild issue-20150704_100519_resized.jpg  
bigjstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 05:45 AM   #6
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
wyoming9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods
Posts: 12,149
Red face

Did you happen to write down the results of the Plastic gauging of the crank and bearings??

Since that must be done with a clean and dry crank and bearings maybe things on one journal were not as clean as they should have been

Because it was the first one to run out of oil.

Maybe that oil passage was never cleaned .

Bearings put in wrong

One can only guess at this point.

Was there a mechanical oil pressure gauge installed.
wyoming9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 01:58 PM   #7
osv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,288
pretty much everything wyoming said... what we used to do with the vw cases was blow the oil passageways in the case out at the high pressure bay at the car wash, then flush it out again with a hose at the house... if junk from the hot tank was left in there, it could have blocked some oil flow, or washed metal particles out into the system.

the oil passageways in the crank also need to be cleaned out before assembly, sometimes there are plugs in the passageways of both the crank and the case that have to be removed, in order to get things fully clean.

we would put oil on the rod bearings, and torque the rods down on the bare crank, hang the crank over the edge of a table, and make sure that the rods rotated cleanly in the full 360 degree circle around the crank... what usually happened was that the idiots at the machine shop wouldn't get the rod caps machined square to the rods, so the i.d. where the bearing is would be right, it would pass a plastigage test, but the side play of the rods would be way out of spec, and drag against the side of the rod journal on the crank... don't bet your life on plastigage, mic everything out also, and test fit it like that if possible... we never used plastigage, if the rod cap wasn't square we'd torque it down and side-sand it until we got the factory side play spec.

the oil pump definitely should have been primed, but you can't worry about rotating a dry motor over, because that has to be done anyway when you set up the timing and the valve lash... assembly lube can work against you if it's so thick that it blocks or slows down the flow of oil, you want thin oil that flushes and cools bearings, not thick oil that doesn't flow enough to keep parts cool.

when i installed my 22re, the last thing that i did was pull the valve cover off and fill the crankcase by pouring the initial oil fill all over the valve assembly and the timing chain... there are oil reservoirs in the 22re head that pool oil, which the cam lobes dip into on every rotation, so there should never be a scenario where the lobes run out of oil, even with the remote chance that the oil pump failed to prime itself... before starting the engine the first time, you can pull the plugs and turn it over with the starter, for a minute or two, maybe until the oil pressure light goes out... no compression means less pressure on the bearings in the crank/rod drivetrain.

that's why scoring marks on the cam lobes of your motor are a bit disturbing, it doesn't quite make sense.

pull the rod bearings off of the crank, if the journal is blue it's probably toast and shouldn't be turned, but there are still plenty of 22re cranks around.

i would tear everything apart and look for junk in the oil passageways of both the crank and the case, that could have blocked oil flow.

Last edited by osv; 07-05-2015 at 02:03 PM.
osv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2015, 09:56 PM   #8
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5
thanks for all the help guys here is a update. we started some more tear down. we found that we had not put the oil galley plug inside the oil pan back in. and as for the cleaning we hot tanked it at school. and i also had the machine shop clean it. then we we cleaned it with a soap and water mix with brushes for the galley passages and cleaned all the passages twice. now the question is could that oil galley plug inside the oil pan area cause only one bearing to wipe out that bad? we use red assembly lube on all the components. and for the cam we had 3 motors to chose from when we started this rebuild for extra parts. and out of the 3 we couldn't use any of the cams due to scared lobes.and we we did the pasti gague all the parts had been hot tanked then air dried. and then brake cleaned and dried with shop air before we took are measurements. i do know that he had a issue at first cause he tried starting the motor 100 degrees out and then got the timing right. and the scoring marks on the top end scare us as well cause there are spots you can clearly see assembly lube still on there. but there was fresh oil on top as well. he did do the valve adjustments once the motor was warm. and the bearings we checked all the other rod bearings they were all installed the same orientation as rod number 2. and all the notches were in place on the caps and rods. we did send the crank out for polishing but we never sent the rods out we just insured they went back into the same locations. should we have had the rods checked as well? the only reason the motor stoped running in the first place was a blown head gasket

Last edited by bigjstang; 07-05-2015 at 10:05 PM.
bigjstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 08:05 AM   #9
osv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,288
an open oil galley would almost certainly cause a loss of oil pressure, depending on how much oil the oil pump is putting out... that could have been it right there.

never start a motor without adjusting the valves first, some people always adjust 22re valves with the motor cold, they just change the measurement by a couple of thou, do a web search for details.

the rods are probably pounded out on the big end, they should always be resized... watch out for the crooked rod caps i mentioned earlier.

the crank should have been checked for straightness on a jig, and if it had plugs in the oil galleys, the galley should have been drilled out and threaded for allen head plugs, installed with locktite... same thing with oil galleys in the block.

polishing leaves particulate matter residue in the oil galley of the crank, that's why all oil galleys have to be opened up and cleaned, with pipe cleaners, and i use carb cleaner to blow things out as well, but put oil on everything immediately afterwards, to prevent rust.

all engine blocks will eventually pound out the crank center main journals, the only way to fix it is to do an align bore with a long cutter, with the crank bearing caps torqued down... there are jigs to do it with drills, but it really needs to be done with something like this: http://www.rottlermfg.com/line-boring-machines.php

i can tell you how to check an old aircooled vw engine case for problems like that, but i'm not sure how it would be done with an iron block... maybe torque the crank bearing cap down, and measure for concentricity??

i would flush the oil galleys in the block out at the car wash, under high pressure, no soap, then rinse it with a hose, and blow it out with high pressure air... but all of the plugs must be removed first.

with a severely blown head gasket, the top of the block could be warped and need machining, in which case i think that the timing chain cover has to be bolted up and machined along with the top of the block?? all water-cooled blocks should be checked there, by the machine shop.

Last edited by osv; 07-06-2015 at 08:11 AM.
osv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 10:01 AM   #10
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5
when we assembled we had adjusted the valves on the large sizze by i believe it was 2 thousands
bigjstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2016, 06:15 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2
you have to clean all oil passages everybody thinks the machine shop does this they don't. I have seen reground cranks right out of the box full off junk! so check . when you are ready to install the motor go down to oreilly autoparts and rent the oil pressure primer tank works fantastic.
bspears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2016, 02:57 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 5
Climate control

i was told from a guy that I can replace it by just loosening the plastics? I really don't want to take the whole dash off. Also does anyone know if someone makes a aftermarket dash?
sheustess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 12:14 PM   #13
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
bootscootboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: beast alabama
Posts: 808
sub'd
bootscootboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2016, 12:27 PM   #14
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
 
wyoming9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods
Posts: 12,149
Red face

How did this go from engine internals to climate control ??

Be nice to know on what as well??
wyoming9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2016, 09:16 PM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjstang View Post
i was not there for the install and asked the guy if he primed the oil pump and he did not. we used ALOT off assembly lube during the assembly process. if the priming of the pump was the issue why was number 2 rod the only damaged one. cause as we were loosening main caps and rods the only one that held the motor was number 2. we pulled and inspected the other bearings and they all showed very little signs of wear?
You mentioned some other guys assembled the head, did they bore level the cam journal? Just as others have mentioned the crank needing to be bored true, so does the cam, even with a new head and cam it should always be done. This would probably explain your cam lobes being scored. Does the cam turn freely with the head removed? If its froze or even just has a little wobble or you feel it build a little resistance on one side of the turn then you know this is your problem.

Last edited by ChinkTruck; 12-09-2016 at 11:11 PM.
ChinkTruck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2017, 08:18 PM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 3
My Chrysler did almost the same

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjstang View Post
Hey guys im new to the forum and do not own said truck but did a rebuild on the engine for the truck and i have some questions.
so to start it was a 1987 toyota pickup 22r. we pulled the engine tore it down hot tanked sent the block and head for decking and maging. we bought a rebuild kit from the machine shop to insure we had all the parts needed to complete the job right. in school we had a toyota instructor helping us when we couldnt find the information on all data,cause we were ford students we relied on him a bit. during the rebuild we plasty gauges all bearings and checked all piston ring clearances and had the machine shop cut the valaves and valve seats. and assemble the head sence they were rebuilding the rocker arms to put new pads on. the motor was within factory specifications. fast forward to now. my buddy drives the truck just over 30 miles and it locks up cold. we pull it back out and find rod bearing number 2 has actually started to heat weld together we are assuming oil starvation.also we found scaring on some cam lobes on the new cam we had installed and we are stumped. we checked everything. platy gages every bearing and insured everything was to spec. what could cause this we are at a loss. the rebuild kit came with a new oil pump so we dont believe it was a issue of oil pressure due to being oil on the top side of the motor.now we have the issue of needing an new crank cause the one in there is beyond repair and needing at least one rod. but we are planning on doing all new rods to be safe and all new bearings we would just like to know what could cause this issue. cause quite frankly im damn nervous about putting a new crank, rods and bearings and having a repeat of the issue. thanks for all of you who read the whole post and respond. any thoughts or help is greatly appreciated.
always check your oil pressure after a rebuild if you had you more then likely would have found bead blasting material plugging up the crankshaft or on the block this would show with very irratic pressures or extremely high pressure or huge spikes and drops for every revolution I got lucky jacked the pressure too 120 pounds ran it until the oil filter blew and it unblocked the passage in the crankshaft passage too the camshaft only needed a new rod bearing set and a couple of push rods filter oil pump only half of the motor was getting oil almost didn't catch it in time until I checked my oil pressure after feeling the sending unit thumping, would have never caught it in time otherwise.
Joseph Bradshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2017, 02:00 PM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 11
Oil pressure too high

I need some advice guys I rebuilt my 86 Toyota pickup and drove it a little while and I have a leak rear main seal is leaking and I talk to someone about the oil pressure my oil pressure runs really high if you're running 60 miles an hour its reading 60 PSI if you go up to 70 it will read 70 PSI and it'll idles around 30 someone told me that's way too high it's a new oil pump so what do I do thanks
Baileykl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2017, 02:00 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 3
30-70 psi oil pressure to high no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baileykl View Post
I need some advice guys I rebuilt my 86 Toyota pickup and drove it a little while and I have a leak rear main seal is leaking and I talk to someone about the oil pressure my oil pressure runs really high if you're running 60 miles an hour its reading 60 PSI if you go up to 70 it will read 70 PSI and it'll idles around 30 someone told me that's way too high it's a new oil pump so what do I do thanks
unless your pushing past 90 psi your good this motor that is perfect pressure, look for pressure indifference at steady idle or 2500 rpms if its jumping something is plugged in the crank or too the head off the crank oil passages I always go with a brand new crank for these anything else is junk they take huge punishment add zinc too your mix these require that in which you can only find in racing oil now or a additive very cheap kills wear and after a rebuild leaves no scuffing or scratching anywhere you get a clean break in, no rear seal leaks proper oil clearance on the bearings on no plugged up passages from cleaning a old one if its used junk it, you will only have a junk engine in less then 10,000 miles and always use compressed air when completely disassembled to clean out any bead blasting or cleaning done you could end up with a plugged passage anywhere or masses of crap stuck in the bottom of cooling passages just let it dry hit the cooling passages you will see have yet to get a clean engine I did not have to do this mine pushes 80 psi max hot, engine is maybe two years old.
Joseph Bradshaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2017, 10:31 AM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 11
This is the first motor I've rebuilt. So I thought the oil pressure was good. But I replaced the rear main seal right after I built it. I think It may be leaking again. I ask someone if high oil pressure could cause it to leak. He ask what t
Baileykl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1981 pickup 4x4 build young buck Pre 84 Trucks (Build-Up Section) 17 12-18-2016 02:19 AM
84 sr5 22r rebuild about to start dumpster84 84-85 Trucks & 4Runners 25 04-30-2016 06:03 AM
FS[PacSouthWest]: 2- 8"3rd members:4.88 ratchet lockers,new setup kit, rear axle rebuild kit,diff armor jerusry Axles - Suspensions - Tires - Wheels 1 10-19-2015 05:28 PM
22r new motor? cars-guy Pre 84 Trucks 4 07-27-2015 02:40 PM
HiGH oil pressure breaking in 20R calderp Pre 84 Trucks 8 07-27-2015 09:58 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:38 AM.


2017 InternetBrands, Inc.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: