Engine swap or rebuild for a '99 V6?
02-20-2011, 11:54 AM
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Engine swap or rebuild for a '99 V6?
My 99 V6 Limited finally gave out this week after 235k - steam from the exhaust on startup, and missing like crazy when it's running. I spoke to my mechanic about the problem, and we agreed it's either a Head Gasket or a cracked Head.
So I drove it home and checking the codes, as the CEL was flashing. Got P0303 and P0306 - misfire on 3 and 6 which means both banks of cylinders are affected.
Given the mileage on the engine I'm thinking my best bet is just to buy a reconditioned one and swap it out rather than have it pulled apart just to find the heads or maybe even the block is cracked.
Any suggestions?
And if anyone knows a good reconditioned engine supplier in San Diego/Orange/Riverside area I'd appreciate the information!
So I drove it home and checking the codes, as the CEL was flashing. Got P0303 and P0306 - misfire on 3 and 6 which means both banks of cylinders are affected.
Given the mileage on the engine I'm thinking my best bet is just to buy a reconditioned one and swap it out rather than have it pulled apart just to find the heads or maybe even the block is cracked.
Any suggestions?
And if anyone knows a good reconditioned engine supplier in San Diego/Orange/Riverside area I'd appreciate the information!
02-20-2011, 12:31 PM
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I'd look here for the closest, lowest mileage, 5VZFE engine you can find and swap it in. http://www.car-part.com/
02-20-2011, 02:03 PM
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I found a shop in Canoga Park selling fully reconditioned engines for $1500 (after exchange) . . . . better than the $1300 I was quoted from a breaker for a '97 pulled from a wreck, I guess!
02-20-2011, 02:17 PM
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I guess it all depends on who did the rebuild. I prefer a factory build even if its out of a wreck. This engine was out of a wrecked 2001 Taco, I cleaned it up, painted it, and added the supercharger:
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02-20-2011, 05:34 PM
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I would be doing more diagnostics, other than a few possible unrelated problems.
Steam in the exhaust on start up? Thats normal. Its condensation burning off from when the pipes cooled. A constant white smoke would be something to worry about.
Missing? That could be several things.
Did he do a compression test? What about a cooling system compression test?
From what I have read, I would be willing to dig further than a guess.
Steam in the exhaust on start up? Thats normal. Its condensation burning off from when the pipes cooled. A constant white smoke would be something to worry about.
Missing? That could be several things.
Did he do a compression test? What about a cooling system compression test?
From what I have read, I would be willing to dig further than a guess.
02-20-2011, 08:13 PM
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etc - This is a major change from the norm. The steam continues for several miles, and can completely drown out the vision of anyone driving behind me, it smells of burnt coolant, and I'm losing at least a pint of coolant for every 30 or so miles I drive.
I checked the plugs in all cylinders and #3 was oily - all the others were clean and dry. I'm going to run the engine again tomorrow and reset the CEL and see what it reports this time around.
The oil is still clear which suggests head/head gasket rather than block, but if I'm going to spend the money to repair/replace the head(s) why not just get a fully reconditioned unit? I don't want to fix the top end now and have to replace the main bearings in another 20,000 miles - been there, done that before, but not with a Toyota . . .
I checked the plugs in all cylinders and #3 was oily - all the others were clean and dry. I'm going to run the engine again tomorrow and reset the CEL and see what it reports this time around.
The oil is still clear which suggests head/head gasket rather than block, but if I'm going to spend the money to repair/replace the head(s) why not just get a fully reconditioned unit? I don't want to fix the top end now and have to replace the main bearings in another 20,000 miles - been there, done that before, but not with a Toyota . . .
02-20-2011, 08:52 PM
#10
I think that mt goat makes a good point about who rebuilt it. Sometimes it's a better deal to trust something that hasn't really been messed with out of the salvage yard with low miles on it that something that has been rebuilt (built) buy someone other than Toyota. I think I would almost prefer a 100k engine if I didn't know too much about the re-builder's processes. Where is this engine you found for $1500 coming from? Any info on them?
02-21-2011, 05:26 AM
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Yeah I'd be worried I'd get one from a place like this guy talks about:
I'd probably only trust a rebuild I did myself.
stay away from http://oregonengines.net/ they DO NOT have a good rep whatsoever. Their engines are crap, put together with parts that just don't work well together, and their "LIFETIME WARRANTY" is bogus.
02-21-2011, 06:26 AM
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The place I'm looking at is http://www.123engines.com. They sell on ebay at way lower prices than other shops which does make me a little wary, but I'm still looking for other shops closer to me, hence the request for recommendations.
02-21-2011, 09:00 AM
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Find something used. If you care about reliability and don't want anymore headaches down the road, you'll either rebuild yourself or find something complete and lower mileage to swap in.
02-21-2011, 09:09 AM
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Reset the CEL this morning (had three misfires on it - 1, 2 and 6) and drove it for a few miles. Was rough to begin with, but the steam stopped and it ran ok, if a little lumpy now and again. CL won't come back on again. Maybe because I didn't refill coolant before I drove it. I'll let it cool, refill the coolant and try again. Maybe it is just a gasket after all . . .
**UPDATE**
Topped off coolant again, and took it for a short drive. Same problems as before (steam for a few minutes, smelling of burning coolant, misfiring) and Diags showed P0302, P0303 and P0306 (misfires in 2, 3 and 6).
Since the behavior is different when there's less coolant (and therefor lower coolant pressure) does this mean it's more likely to be a gasket rather than a cracked head?
**UPDATE**
Topped off coolant again, and took it for a short drive. Same problems as before (steam for a few minutes, smelling of burning coolant, misfiring) and Diags showed P0302, P0303 and P0306 (misfires in 2, 3 and 6).
Since the behavior is different when there's less coolant (and therefor lower coolant pressure) does this mean it's more likely to be a gasket rather than a cracked head?
Last edited by dazbert; 02-21-2011 at 11:02 AM.
02-21-2011, 11:12 AM
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I am not a master mechanic by any means but from my own personal experience, I would say its just a head gasket. Most likely that is. You can do a compression test and see if two cylinders next to eachother have lower numbers. This often tells you that the gasket failed between the two.
You can do a compression test and leak down test and it will tell you a lot. Once you've narrowed it down to which head it is, then you can pull it and check whats going on.
You can do a compression test and leak down test and it will tell you a lot. Once you've narrowed it down to which head it is, then you can pull it and check whats going on.
02-21-2011, 07:19 PM
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Don't keep driving it or you will hurt the bottom end as did the previous owner of my 98 4Runner did. Its most likely the head gaskets. Make sure the block and heads are flat before you put it back together. Use good quality head gaskets and new head bolts to ensure your not doing it again in 10,000 miles.
02-21-2011, 08:21 PM
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The head(s) won't go back on without seeing a machine shop - learned that the hard way before too!
Thanks all for the advice - I'll update when the problem has been identified & resolved.
Thanks all for the advice - I'll update when the problem has been identified & resolved.
02-22-2011, 06:38 AM
#19
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Make sure they have the right equipment for aluminum head resurfacing and get the correct smoothness specs for the gaskets you use. MLS gaskets need a much smoother surface if you use that type gasket.
Here's some tips on head bolt torquing from EB:
Here's some tips on head bolt torquing from EB:
>>>*Other than simple overheat, the #1 cause of head gasket failure is clamping force variations.
Usually when I mention this, the answer is "I torqued it properly!"
*Yes, very likely, but torque, which is a twisting force, means almost nothing when we are talking about clamping force.
Dirt or machinery debris in the bolt holes will throw the clamping force off as much as 50% and more, even though the torque wrench reads perfectly normal.
The same happens when installing new bolts. The very best bolts made will show a rough mating surface at the threads when inspected under a microscope.
When installing new or used fastners, first be sure the bolt will spin in and out ALL THE WAY freely with simple finger pressure. Be sure they are lightly oiled, not too much which can hydraulic lock at the bottom of any blind holes and spoil your day.
Use this simple breakin procedure for any new bolts: Tighten all of them to 50%, back off 1/4 turn, then to 75%, back off 1/4 turn. Then take them to 100%, back off 1/4 turn and repeat.
*This procedure simply assures that the imperfections of the threads seat to the bolt hole threads.
Yes, time consuming, but much faster and less costly than another set of gaskets, the actual clamping force will increase vastly, even though the torque load is exactly the same.
The alternative is you may be additional twisting at the top of the bolt after the threads have come to a stop from excess friction.
If any single one does that, head gasket failure prematurely is gauranteed, plus it weakens the bolt....*EB
Usually when I mention this, the answer is "I torqued it properly!"
*Yes, very likely, but torque, which is a twisting force, means almost nothing when we are talking about clamping force.
Dirt or machinery debris in the bolt holes will throw the clamping force off as much as 50% and more, even though the torque wrench reads perfectly normal.
The same happens when installing new bolts. The very best bolts made will show a rough mating surface at the threads when inspected under a microscope.
When installing new or used fastners, first be sure the bolt will spin in and out ALL THE WAY freely with simple finger pressure. Be sure they are lightly oiled, not too much which can hydraulic lock at the bottom of any blind holes and spoil your day.
Use this simple breakin procedure for any new bolts: Tighten all of them to 50%, back off 1/4 turn, then to 75%, back off 1/4 turn. Then take them to 100%, back off 1/4 turn and repeat.
*This procedure simply assures that the imperfections of the threads seat to the bolt hole threads.
Yes, time consuming, but much faster and less costly than another set of gaskets, the actual clamping force will increase vastly, even though the torque load is exactly the same.
The alternative is you may be additional twisting at the top of the bolt after the threads have come to a stop from excess friction.
If any single one does that, head gasket failure prematurely is gauranteed, plus it weakens the bolt....*EB
Last edited by mt_goat; 02-22-2011 at 06:40 AM.
02-22-2011, 07:38 AM
#20
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