Phx_Chick57

Hi fellas, I'm new to this forum but I've been reading some threads about crankshaft bolts and wonder if you could help a girl out

My vehicle is a 98 4runner SR5 4WD, V6 engine, 95,000 miles.

This just happened to me on the way home from work -- battery light goes on, steering gets sluggish/no steering, car dies on off-ramp of freeway. I pop the hood and see my belts completely off.

Had it towed to the dealer (Larry Miller Toyota in Peoria, AZ) , they call me up and tell me that the bolt that holds the pulley onto the crankshaft backed out and "tore up" the crankshaft. Basically it's trashed (I'm taking their word for it since I'm not very mechanically inclined )

They're telling me that I have several options:
a) replace crankshaft, which will cost me $4k for parts & labor.
b) get a used engine, which will cost me $4k for parts & labor.
(used engine they say has 70K miles on it -- this option seems pointless since I've got 95K on my existing dead one. Also only 1 year warranty)

c) get a remanufactured engine, which will cost me $5000 parts & labor.

If I had to choose, I'd probably lean toward "C" -- getting the remanufactured (which has 0 miles on it.)

I had my timing belt replaced at 65K miles, from this very same dealer. I've also had it completely dealer serviced at this dealer. From what I've been reading in the forums, the crankshaft bolt can come out if improperly installed/torqued. However, that was 30K miles ago.... wouldn't I have had problems much sooner?

Should I hold them responsible, what are my chances of getting them to give me a break, and do those prices seem reasonable?


Thanks guys...

Phx_Chick57

Ringmaster

Have you kept your service records, and receipts for all the work done at the Stealership?

It seem's if they replaced the timing belt, they should be held responsible for the bolt coming loose.

You'll need the records, receipts to back it up.

MTL_4runner

Phx_Chick,

If you have had your timing belt changed by a shop (sounds like you go to the dealer to have work done) then that shop/dealer should be held accountable for what happened. Most likely they used an incorrect torque spec on the bolt and it just backed out (after that the crank pulley will tear the crankshaft nose to pieces.....as it did to yours). I can point to numerous stories of this happening on Yotatech and you should print those out and take them into the shop that changed the timing belt and demand them to take responsibility/action for what transpired. If you did have a shop do your timing belt make sure they make good on it or hire a lawyer if they try to wiggle out of their responsibility.

Makes me sick when I hear about this happening to people.....

Here's one that just happened:
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/crank-pulley-wobble-88872/

Few more (the list goes on and on):
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/lesson-learned-pics-76293/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/crankshaft-pulley-came-off-help-65946/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/3-4l-engine-problems-37150/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f2/help-harmonic-balancer-16920/

I also noted in the FSM that it says that the crank bolt is a non-reuseable part (but I doubt they are getting replaced each time):
http://www.deserted1.com/FSM/Repair_...imbel/comp.pdf

alotawatts

Look VERY close for helicoil in the crank threads. I think the problem may be over torque - stripping. Years ago I had work done on a older 6cyl Toyota wagon. After a short time the main bolt loosened because it had been stripped. I found bits of helicoil ( thread repair / fine wire ) and took it back to where I had it serviced. Of course they denied the damage. I took them to small claims court............and lost.
Receipts etc may not do you much good.

DoubleZero4x4

If you have the service records, I would start pestering the dealer to make it right. You could also try the media. I usually hate the media, especially here in Phoenix, but "12 Call For Action" or "3 On Your Side" might help if the dealership pushes back on you.

Failing those options...I would go with option C just because it's a 0 mile engine - especially if you are planning on keeping your truck for a while longer.

mt_goat

Sorry to hear of your problem. One more idea to add, you should ask the dealer what they torqued the crank bolt to when the did the t-belt. If they say any number lower than 217 ft-lbs ask them to put that in writing. Then after they give you that in writing tell them the factory spec of 217 ft-lbs. Probably a long shot being that 30,000 miles have passed but with the high stakes involved here maybe it's worth a shot.

Good luck and please let us know what happens.

rimpainter.com

As mentioned, definitely go in there with all your records and show them that they are the only ones that have touched the vehicle (at least since the timing belt change). I would schedule a meeting with the service manager, dress professionally, and have all the records in a nice folder in chronological order.

Chances are they dealer is going to tell you to take a hike, or maybe try to compromise with you with some ridiculous offer like free oil changes or something. They will probably try to make a deal on a used engine or something. Be prepared to respond to their push. Are you going to take it further? Get a lawyer? Drop it? Unfortunately, their warranty on the timing belt change is only good for 12 months / 12K miles, whichever comes first. So, they could get away with screwing you over.

If anything, I would get the vehicle towed out of there and the work performed somewhere else. There are a number of reputable shops around that will not charge you that much for a low-mileage engine. I know the owner of Salem Boys Auto in Tempe (not well, but I know his character and reputation). That is one option. I also know and trust Jason Biggs (or Briggs) down at Tempe Toyota. So, you could see what they could do for you as well. I would and will avoid having Larry Miller Toyota service my vehicle as a result of this posting, that's for sure.

SpikeStrip

Phx Chick,
I agree with all that's been said above, but want you to realize you WILL get EXTREME resistance from the dealer to own this mistake. It has been 30K miles (you didn't say how many months/years), but regardless, they will tell you to go pound Peroia sand. Small claims court is an option, but, realistically, it is gonna be hard to win when so much time and mileage has passed since the repair...

Depending on how bad the crank was "tore up" you might be able to have the bolt hole helicoiled (new threads) installed, and a new pully.... It might be worth your effort to have the truck towed to an independent you trust and get a second opinion... if it's 100 bux to tow, vs. 5K$ new motor.... An independent might even eat the cost of the tow if they're going to get the work.

Good luck and please let us know what happens and if you need some hate mail sent to LMT!

S.

MTL_4runner

Unfortunately the crank nose often looks like this so a helicoil or larger bolt won't help much:


Another angle might be to take your complaint against the dealer to Toyota corporate and see if they can squeeze any blood out of that stone. If all fails and you do need a new motor and it's gonna be on your bill there are alot of reputable shops which can help you put in a used low-mile japanese domestic motor (that has been imported to the US, usually they have just over 30K miles on them and are often in great shape). The motors usually run about $1500-2000 and should cost about $500-700 to put in.

montypower

I had a similar issue... Crank Pulley wobble. Thankfully, a new crank pulley and key are working. Although, it still has slight movement.

You should find a used engine for a lot less than $4k!!! I was looking to buy one from a guy for about $1100 w/ 40k miles. Check the forums!!! Craigslist...

There is an entire engine on ---- Car-part.com ---- here in Oregon. 65k miles. $1600. Another w/ 43k miles $2500.

I would never buy a rebuilt motor... Rebuilt does not = New. It is far from it... Get a good used motor!

SpikeStrip

Ouch! ... Yeah, if your crank is that bad, and the mileage is high, I'd look for a good used, lo mi, engine. The dealer won't do that, but an independent will... However, I disagree about the rebuild motors... if you trust the builder and they offer a good (long) warranty, then it's something worth considering.

montypower

Most warranties on rebuilt motors are a joke. Seriously have you read one?? None cover labor. And they have sooo many exclusions. Now... If it was 100% Free replacement for x amount of miles/days that might be something. Be careful and read it all and get referrals before going rebuilt.

You also have to understand rebuilt is not 0 miles. It is a guy pulling apart a motor (unknown amount of miles) and replacing the "bad" parts and putting everything back together. Rocker arms, valve springs, pistons, crank, etc... are all "re-used" if possible. There are good rebuilders out there for sure... but it is not a "new" engine. You can only get those from the dealer $$$$.

mt_goat

I agree, except I don't think you can even get a "new" engine at the dealer anymore. Not a long block anyway. I guess Toyota used to sell them.

MTL_4runner

There is nothing wrong with a rebuilt motor and they can often last for many trouble free miles but it really comes down to the skill of the rebuilder and the tolerances they hold when rebuilding. I have rebuilt quite a few Toyota motors while working as a mechanic and I never had one recall from a customer (other makes had some design issues), but then again I tried to be very meticulous for just that reason. I personally would angle more towards a used motor in this case since it tends to be a more hassle free approach because the break-in has already been done. It often tends to be the cheapest approach as well.

youngbuck

So does that mean when I replace my crankshaft seal when doing my timing belt, I also need to replace the crankshaft bolt?

AH64ID

Several years back when I was going to do a 3.4 swap I bought a 3.4 with 12K miles for 900 plus shipping on ebay... look around, they can be found for a good price.

Good luck with the dealer...

mt_goat

Yep, that's what that means.

manofsteele2003

I've never heard of replacing the crack bolt when doing a timing belt. Can't you just put some thread locker on it and torque it to specs?

Rick F.

I second the motion to go to Toyota Corporate. There should be a number in your Owner's Manual. You'll get no satisfaction from the dealer, IMHO.

MTL_4runner

I just always reuse the old bolt and retorque to spec but according to the FSM you are supposed to be replacing that each time you do a timing belt. Honestly, I very much doubt even the dealers are replacing these when doing a timing belt though. So if you err on the conservative side, then yes, you would want to replace it each time.