Bypass the OE tranny cooler?
May 21, 2010 | 02:16 PM
#281
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 10,666
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From: Oklahoma State
I installed my new ScanGaugeII last night and gave it (and my tranny cooler) a good test today. The results were not what I was hoping for, but informational.
Today I drove 110 miles. 80 miles highway @ 70mph. 30 miles around town. I stopped a total of 12 times, but only shut the engine off 6 times. The ambient air temp was about 65 degrees F.
Started out around town. Trans temp varied between 130 and 140 around town, and spiked at 155 when I accelerated onto the interstate.
Got on the highway. Trans temp dropped to 145 and sat right there for 50 miles of cruising.
Off highway, into town. Temps jumped up to 160 immediately when I slowed for my first stop after the highway. Around town they varied from 160 to 170.
Got back on highway (going opposite direction of first trip). Temp peaked at 183 as I accelerated (hard) onto the interstate. They then dropped to 160 and stayed right there for the 50 mile drive back.
Back into town. Temp rose again when I did my first slow down, and stayed between 170 and 185 around town.
My B&M 70268 is mounted against the radiator, behind the A/C condenser. I think I either need to move it in front of the condenser, or simply add another cooler that is in front of the condenser. I think I'm going to order another B&M 70268, and mount it on the front of the condenser and run them in series. Here in the midwest where I live, temperatures can vary from -20F in the winter to over 100F in the summer. I'd like to set it up so I can manually disconnect the front cooler in the winter time and just run the cooler that is stacked between the rad and condenser when it's 0F outside.
Suggestions?
Today I drove 110 miles. 80 miles highway @ 70mph. 30 miles around town. I stopped a total of 12 times, but only shut the engine off 6 times. The ambient air temp was about 65 degrees F.
Started out around town. Trans temp varied between 130 and 140 around town, and spiked at 155 when I accelerated onto the interstate.
Got on the highway. Trans temp dropped to 145 and sat right there for 50 miles of cruising.
Off highway, into town. Temps jumped up to 160 immediately when I slowed for my first stop after the highway. Around town they varied from 160 to 170.
Got back on highway (going opposite direction of first trip). Temp peaked at 183 as I accelerated (hard) onto the interstate. They then dropped to 160 and stayed right there for the 50 mile drive back.
Back into town. Temp rose again when I did my first slow down, and stayed between 170 and 185 around town.
My B&M 70268 is mounted against the radiator, behind the A/C condenser. I think I either need to move it in front of the condenser, or simply add another cooler that is in front of the condenser. I think I'm going to order another B&M 70268, and mount it on the front of the condenser and run them in series. Here in the midwest where I live, temperatures can vary from -20F in the winter to over 100F in the summer. I'd like to set it up so I can manually disconnect the front cooler in the winter time and just run the cooler that is stacked between the rad and condenser when it's 0F outside.
Suggestions?
High temp was 183 F, 75 F ambient (measured in cooler line after a long trip in slow city traffic)
Last edited by mt_goat; May 21, 2010 at 02:17 PM.
May 21, 2010 | 06:03 PM
#282
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Yeah, I suppose I would have been thinking that was about perfect 2 months ago. But now that I've seen that little chart that shows optimal temps for conventional ATF and synthetic ATF, I was hoping to keep the highs around 160. I'm getting read to switch to Valvoline MaxLife ATF, which is synthetic. But I figure for the health of the transmission long term, I'd rather have temps peaking around 180 when it's 100F outside and I'm hauling up a big hill pulling a trailer with firewood. Even with running synthetic.
Which means I need another cooler.
EDIT. Just realized I said "pulling a trailer with firewood when it's 100F outside". Kinda struck me funny when I read it back to myself after posting. lol
Last edited by quicksilvr; May 21, 2010 at 06:05 PM.
May 21, 2010 | 07:40 PM
#283
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 570
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From: Outer Banks, NC
Maxlife DEX/MER is good ATF fluid. Two friends of mine swear by it. And holy price inflation to go from $2.75 to $4.99 a QT in three years; hence it must be pretty good.
Here are a couple of more charts for ATF temps. By the looks of it, <200 is not all that bad. It IS interesting that one chart says running the ATF temps at 150F is not as good for the ATF as 175F to 195F. But this one is from 1999, long time ago.
Here are a couple of more charts for ATF temps. By the looks of it, <200 is not all that bad. It IS interesting that one chart says running the ATF temps at 150F is not as good for the ATF as 175F to 195F. But this one is from 1999, long time ago.
May 21, 2010 | 07:53 PM
#284
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 301
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From: SoCal
I really don't think 180-190 is bad at all. According to this website and I quote:
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14_...utomobiles.htm
"As a general rule, cooling systems are designed to operate with a coolant temperature of about 190 degrees F at the radiator inlet and have about a 10 degree F temperature drop through the radiator at rated power and rated coolant flow. This will result in a bottom tank temperature of 180 degrees F."
So it seems that Toyota designed our transmissions to (once up to operating temp) never operate at a temperature lower than around 170. I'm beginning to think that thing we call a cooler in the bottom of the radiator is really a warmer meant to get the fluid warmed up quick and after that do nothing unless the trans gets very hot. The Tundra 6spd tranny actually has a warmer and a cooler!
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14_...utomobiles.htm
"As a general rule, cooling systems are designed to operate with a coolant temperature of about 190 degrees F at the radiator inlet and have about a 10 degree F temperature drop through the radiator at rated power and rated coolant flow. This will result in a bottom tank temperature of 180 degrees F."
So it seems that Toyota designed our transmissions to (once up to operating temp) never operate at a temperature lower than around 170. I'm beginning to think that thing we call a cooler in the bottom of the radiator is really a warmer meant to get the fluid warmed up quick and after that do nothing unless the trans gets very hot. The Tundra 6spd tranny actually has a warmer and a cooler!
May 22, 2010 | 03:33 AM
#285
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 10,666
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From: Oklahoma State
Note that last chart says ATF temp reading taken in pan, that's one of the coldest readings. If its 180 in the pan it will be much higher than that on the way to the cooler where my sensor reads. Not sure where the OBDII reads at, but I know its not in the pan.
May 22, 2010 | 05:09 AM
#286
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 22
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From: Boulder, CO
Maxlife is not synthetic, its a dyno with lots of additivies. It used to be a blend but they changed formulas. Not saying its a bad ATF, I run it in my Maxima and would run it in my 4Runner but I'm going to install a SC soon and decided to go full synthetic
May 22, 2010 | 05:49 AM
#287
Contributing Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 10,666
Likes: 5
From: Oklahoma State
I really don't think 180-190 is bad at all. According to this website and I quote:
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14_...utomobiles.htm
"As a general rule, cooling systems are designed to operate with a coolant temperature of about 190 degrees F at the radiator inlet and have about a 10 degree F temperature drop through the radiator at rated power and rated coolant flow. This will result in a bottom tank temperature of 180 degrees F."
So it seems that Toyota designed our transmissions to (once up to operating temp) never operate at a temperature lower than around 170. I'm beginning to think that thing we call a cooler in the bottom of the radiator is really a warmer meant to get the fluid warmed up quick and after that do nothing unless the trans gets very hot. The Tundra 6spd tranny actually has a warmer and a cooler!
http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/14_...utomobiles.htm
"As a general rule, cooling systems are designed to operate with a coolant temperature of about 190 degrees F at the radiator inlet and have about a 10 degree F temperature drop through the radiator at rated power and rated coolant flow. This will result in a bottom tank temperature of 180 degrees F."
So it seems that Toyota designed our transmissions to (once up to operating temp) never operate at a temperature lower than around 170. I'm beginning to think that thing we call a cooler in the bottom of the radiator is really a warmer meant to get the fluid warmed up quick and after that do nothing unless the trans gets very hot. The Tundra 6spd tranny actually has a warmer and a cooler!
May 22, 2010 | 08:15 AM
#288
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 228
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It says on the jug that it's made from synthetic base oils. I know they don't advertise it as "synthetic", but doesn't have to be at least a synth blend if it has synthetic base oils?
May 22, 2010 | 10:48 AM
#289
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 129
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From: Sunny San Diego
so who here has added an extra cooler(series)?
whats the temp difference?
im running (1) tru-cool 4454 and ive never seen mine get past 210, and using mobil1 syn. 150 on freeways, 180 city driving.
whats the temp difference?
im running (1) tru-cool 4454 and ive never seen mine get past 210, and using mobil1 syn. 150 on freeways, 180 city driving.
May 22, 2010 | 12:03 PM
#290
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 570
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From: Outer Banks, NC
I have always been curious why some folks say the most accurate reading is from the pan, yet if heat truely helps to accelarte the breakdown of ATF, then I too want my readings to be at the hottest point in the ATF loop (right from the tranny).
May 22, 2010 | 12:09 PM
#291
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 570
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From: Outer Banks, NC
With radiator not bypassed, and running in-series AFTER the B&M, with all other variables the same, roughly 10-20 degrees cooler. Hence the reason for installing the Koyo next month.
Jun 11, 2010 | 03:46 PM
#292
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 484
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From: Marquette, MI
Bumping...
Just installed a Tru-cool 4454 yesterday, and tried it out today, looks like around 150 arond town, then the first offraod I get to it went above 200. I was going uphill, kinda fast, high RPM.. It was 60 out and raining, so I'd hate to see what it looks like when Its warm out..
Is this normal? I'm seriously considering adding a second cooler, and just re-routing the series when winter comes so I only have one running.
Either getting another, or trying a fan? Any ideas?
Just installed a Tru-cool 4454 yesterday, and tried it out today, looks like around 150 arond town, then the first offraod I get to it went above 200. I was going uphill, kinda fast, high RPM.. It was 60 out and raining, so I'd hate to see what it looks like when Its warm out..
Is this normal? I'm seriously considering adding a second cooler, and just re-routing the series when winter comes so I only have one running.
Either getting another, or trying a fan? Any ideas?
Jun 11, 2010 | 05:18 PM
#293
Contributing Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 470
Likes: 1
From: Kenai, Alaska
Bumping...
Just installed a Tru-cool 4454 yesterday, and tried it out today, looks like around 150 arond town, then the first offraod I get to it went above 200. I was going uphill, kinda fast, high RPM.. It was 60 out and raining, so I'd hate to see what it looks like when Its warm out..
Is this normal? I'm seriously considering adding a second cooler, and just re-routing the series when winter comes so I only have one running.
Either getting another, or trying a fan? Any ideas?
Just installed a Tru-cool 4454 yesterday, and tried it out today, looks like around 150 arond town, then the first offraod I get to it went above 200. I was going uphill, kinda fast, high RPM.. It was 60 out and raining, so I'd hate to see what it looks like when Its warm out..
Is this normal? I'm seriously considering adding a second cooler, and just re-routing the series when winter comes so I only have one running.
Either getting another, or trying a fan? Any ideas?
Loaded down with gear (in the back and on top in the Yakima Rack creating drag), two kids and me. Hitting mountain roads, outside temps high 50's, and driving slow (forgot to shift down from highway driving) and I saw my temps go way over 200. First time ever. But the Toyota Tranny High Temp light never came on. But still...
So I was kind of thinking the same thing. How I have mine mounted the bottom half is blocked by the bumper. I would like to know how much that hurts the temps...
But all in all, my Runner rocked on this trip (even if I had to get the shovel out and dig out of some snow I got high-centered on....)....
Jun 11, 2010 | 05:36 PM
#294
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 434
Likes: 2
From: Galveston, Texas
I tried a 4454 on my 4runner and had problems with high temps. I ended up yanking it out and installing a B&M cooler that was the same height and length but instead of 3/4" thick it was double that at 1.5" thick.
The extra thickness dropped the temps allot. I can sit in stop and go traffic or wheeling at the beach and never hit over 190F. The only time I've seen it hit 200F is on the floor getting on the freeway with my 4000lb boat behind me.
One other thing that will really drive your temps up is your fan clutch. If you can't hear your fan making the loud vroom sound (like it does when you first start up cold in the morning) every time you step on the gas in traffic its bad. I had that problem about a 2 months after I installed my B&M cooler. I started to notice the temps would skyrocket in stop and go traffic but fall down quick at highway speeds. As soon as I replaced the fan clutch the temps went down to very acceptable levels.
FOG
The extra thickness dropped the temps allot. I can sit in stop and go traffic or wheeling at the beach and never hit over 190F. The only time I've seen it hit 200F is on the floor getting on the freeway with my 4000lb boat behind me.
One other thing that will really drive your temps up is your fan clutch. If you can't hear your fan making the loud vroom sound (like it does when you first start up cold in the morning) every time you step on the gas in traffic its bad. I had that problem about a 2 months after I installed my B&M cooler. I started to notice the temps would skyrocket in stop and go traffic but fall down quick at highway speeds. As soon as I replaced the fan clutch the temps went down to very acceptable levels.
FOG
Jun 11, 2010 | 06:46 PM
#295
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
From: Marquette, MI
Psraff, I have half your problem, and then some
I have the 240 blitz's blocking much of my air flow through the grille...
Would a fan help a lot? Or would adding a second cooler be cheaper (I assume) and work the same? The area around here is very hilly, and the truck spends a good amount of time off road, so I want to do it right if I'm going to do it.
In regards to the fan clutch, I do believe it is operating right, but I'll double check.
Thanks for the help and ideas guys.
I have the 240 blitz's blocking much of my air flow through the grille...
Would a fan help a lot? Or would adding a second cooler be cheaper (I assume) and work the same? The area around here is very hilly, and the truck spends a good amount of time off road, so I want to do it right if I'm going to do it.
In regards to the fan clutch, I do believe it is operating right, but I'll double check.
Thanks for the help and ideas guys.
Jun 11, 2010 | 07:11 PM
#296
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 434
Likes: 2
From: Galveston, Texas
The lights are not an issue, I have two 240's and a large federal signal siren speaker on my ARB and never see temps over 190F and that's in stop and go traffic in 90+ weather.
The most common cause of running exsessive transmission temps is an undersized cooler and IMHO the 4454 is undersized for a 4runner. As I stated above I had really high trans temps running a 4454 and swapped it out for a thicker B&M cooler. After the swap the transmission temps were much lower and even in deep sand I've yet to bust 190F on a hot day.
So before you start going nuts with adding multiply coolers and such, try a thicker B&M cooler.
FOG
The most common cause of running exsessive transmission temps is an undersized cooler and IMHO the 4454 is undersized for a 4runner. As I stated above I had really high trans temps running a 4454 and swapped it out for a thicker B&M cooler. After the swap the transmission temps were much lower and even in deep sand I've yet to bust 190F on a hot day.
So before you start going nuts with adding multiply coolers and such, try a thicker B&M cooler.
FOG
Jun 11, 2010 | 08:40 PM
#297
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
From: Marquette, MI
The lights are not an issue, I have two 240's and a large federal signal siren speaker on my ARB and never see temps over 190F and that's in stop and go traffic in 90+ weather.
The most common cause of running exsessive transmission temps is an undersized cooler and IMHO the 4454 is undersized for a 4runner. As I stated above I had really high trans temps running a 4454 and swapped it out for a thicker B&M cooler. After the swap the transmission temps were much lower and even in deep sand I've yet to bust 190F on a hot day.
So before you start going nuts with adding multiply coolers and such, try a thicker B&M cooler.
FOG
The most common cause of running exsessive transmission temps is an undersized cooler and IMHO the 4454 is undersized for a 4runner. As I stated above I had really high trans temps running a 4454 and swapped it out for a thicker B&M cooler. After the swap the transmission temps were much lower and even in deep sand I've yet to bust 190F on a hot day.
So before you start going nuts with adding multiply coolers and such, try a thicker B&M cooler.
FOG
Oh well. Thanks for the advice.
Jun 12, 2010 | 08:28 AM
#298
Contributing Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 470
Likes: 1
From: Kenai, Alaska
The lights are not an issue, I have two 240's and a large federal signal siren speaker on my ARB and never see temps over 190F and that's in stop and go traffic in 90+ weather.
The most common cause of running exsessive transmission temps is an undersized cooler and IMHO the 4454 is undersized for a 4runner. As I stated above I had really high trans temps running a 4454 and swapped it out for a thicker B&M cooler. After the swap the transmission temps were much lower and even in deep sand I've yet to bust 190F on a hot day.
So before you start going nuts with adding multiply coolers and such, try a thicker B&M cooler.
FOG
The most common cause of running exsessive transmission temps is an undersized cooler and IMHO the 4454 is undersized for a 4runner. As I stated above I had really high trans temps running a 4454 and swapped it out for a thicker B&M cooler. After the swap the transmission temps were much lower and even in deep sand I've yet to bust 190F on a hot day.
So before you start going nuts with adding multiply coolers and such, try a thicker B&M cooler.
FOG
Jun 12, 2010 | 07:33 PM
#299
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
The lights are not an issue, I have two 240's and a large federal signal siren speaker on my ARB and never see temps over 190F and that's in stop and go traffic in 90+ weather.
The most common cause of running exsessive transmission temps is an undersized cooler and IMHO the 4454 is undersized for a 4runner. As I stated above I had really high trans temps running a 4454 and swapped it out for a thicker B&M cooler. After the swap the transmission temps were much lower and even in deep sand I've yet to bust 190F on a hot day.
So before you start going nuts with adding multiply coolers and such, try a thicker B&M cooler.
FOG
The most common cause of running exsessive transmission temps is an undersized cooler and IMHO the 4454 is undersized for a 4runner. As I stated above I had really high trans temps running a 4454 and swapped it out for a thicker B&M cooler. After the swap the transmission temps were much lower and even in deep sand I've yet to bust 190F on a hot day.
So before you start going nuts with adding multiply coolers and such, try a thicker B&M cooler.
FOG
|dg
Jun 13, 2010 | 09:26 AM
#300
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 434
Likes: 2
From: Galveston, Texas
I'm running a B&M 70264 which is the same 11"x7" footprint as the 4454.
The difference is the 4454 is only .75" thick and the 70264 is 1.5" thick so it has double the surface area. Because of this its able to stay in contact twice as long with every CFM of air that goes through it. Its like comparing a one row to a double row radiator.
FOG
The difference is the 4454 is only .75" thick and the 70264 is 1.5" thick so it has double the surface area. Because of this its able to stay in contact twice as long with every CFM of air that goes through it. Its like comparing a one row to a double row radiator.
FOG
Last edited by FogRunner; Jun 13, 2010 at 09:38 AM.
